An oasis on the moon?

h (Rand Simberg) wrote in message ...
On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:23:09 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Chingon"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


America jumped the shark the day Kennedy died. You've lived most of your
life on the downhill side of the curve.

rolling eyes

After WWII, the US represented 60% of the world economy, now it is
just at 21% percent and strongly on the decline. I would call this
"going down the drain".

Karl M. Syring

Karl M. Syring wrote:

After WWII, the US represented 60% of the world economy, now it is
just at 21% percent and strongly on the decline. I would call this
"going down the drain".

I'd call it 'the rest of the world catching up'.

Paul

"Paul F. Dietz" wrote in message ...
Karl M. Syring wrote:

After WWII, the US represented 60% of the world economy, now it is
just at 21% percent and strongly on the decline. I would call this
"going down the drain".

I'd call it 'the rest of the world catching up'.

Yeah, I was just gonna say... Europe had wasted most of its potential
at the time by sabotaging each other and Asia hadn't come into its own
yet.



--
__ "A good leader knows when it's best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture." '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmv :^)^\\
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Ool wrote:

Yeah, I was just gonna say... Europe had wasted most of its potential
at the time by sabotaging each other and Asia hadn't come into its own
yet.

And since then, more than a few countries have acquired (sometimes by
painful experience) some clues about how not to arrange their economies.

Paul

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message .. .
On 27 Feb 2005 18:54:31 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Double-A"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way
as to indicate that:

Did Bush the first lie when he said, "Read my lips, no more taxes."?

Of course not, unless he had no intention of keeping that pledge.
There's no evidence to that effect. It was simply a broken promise.
That's a bad thing (and he was punished for it), but it's not a "lie."
People seem to have gone so nuts in their Bush hatred that they don't
even know what the word "lie" means.


Well, calling him a liar would mean giving him the benefit of the
doubt. Calling him delusional is much more serious a condemnation.

Hitler, for instance, was delusional when he was talking about a Jew-
ish threat. He wasn't lying. He actually believed what he was say-
ing.


So calling people liars and hypocrites is much more tame than calling
them delusional and sociopaths. For the former there's hope. The
latter, however, are evil and can't even help it...

Personally I hope Bush is a liar. The alternative would be much
worse...



--
__ "A good leader knows when it's best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture." '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message .. .

And since then, more than a few countries have acquired (sometimes by
painful experience) some clues about how not to arrange their economies.

Yes, but unfortunately, not enough. Certainly the Norks, and Cuba,
are still clueless. As, in many ways, are the French and Germans,
though nowhere near as badly.


Ah, "the American Way of Life shall bring salvation to the world,"
shan't it?

The only reason why this lack of a social infrastructure was working
so far was because America was the land of opportunity. And it was
that because it was mostly empty and pristine, with lots of resources
as of yet untapped. People who felt trapped yet were resourceful
could simply try their luck elsewhere.

That's also why you're in trouble today. You're filling up and using
up your wealth. In the end you're going to have to compromise and
learn to live sustainably and defuse social tensions other than by
trying to find ever new ways to grow and escape...

Unless, that is, you go into space. That could prolong the boom for
quite a while. That's why I'm here, because I'd love those times to
continue for some time.

But without it you're going to have pretty much the same troubles and
infrastructure changes that Europe's been having a century ago. It's
mostly geography and age that's made us how we are today, not clue-
lessness.


Don't flatter yourselves! It's been mostly your abundance of resourc-
es and arable land that's made you as prosperous as you are, not your
"superior world view." We see that by just how much resources you
need in order to lead the lifestyle to which you've become accustomed.
And we see right now in the Middle East just how superior the Neocon
Jacobin ideas really are...


--
__ "A good leader knows when it's best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture." '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

(Karl M. Syring) wrote:

:After WWII, the US represented 60% of the world economy, now it is
:just at 21% percent and strongly on the decline. I would call this
:"going down the drain".

I would call this "having helped the rest of the world get back on its
feet after its economies were demolished".

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message .. .

And if you're referring to the current president, if he was
delusional, so was Bill Clinton, Ted Kennedy, Tony Blair, and almost
every major western politician and the world intelligence community.


I don't call Bush & Cronies delusional because they didn't find WMDs.
I call them delusional and incompetent because they thought they could
ride into town Magnificent Seven style, take out the bad guys, and
then ride off into the sunset, leaving the villagers to their own de-
vices picking up the pieces. Oh, and by thinking private contractors
would do the reconstruction planning for them. Their faith in the al-
mighty healing powers of private business is truly hilarious.


About WMDs, the only thing I have to criticize is the fact that they
made it sound as if they were convinced that they'd find them. That
showed us just what kind of personality type they are--one that
doesn't keep their options open. One that makes up their minds once
and then confuses their convictions with reality.

If they had said that possibly there were WMDs left but that even if
there were none they couldn't afford the possibility that there were
some the world would have understood. That was the reasoning behind
the Manhattan Project, after all--pre-empting a German nuclear program
that later turned out not to exist, but you just couldn't take that
risk.


The fact that they had to convince themselves and others that they
were absolutely sure that they'd find something and the fact that they
didn't take care of the Iraqi population once they were in the country
showed us just what a disastrously dysfunctional combination they
really are--*zealous and callous.*



--
__ "A good leader knows when it's best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture." '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

"Rand Simberg" wrote in message .. .

The only reason why this lack of a social infrastructure was working
so far was because America was the land of opportunity. And it was
that because it was mostly empty and pristine, with lots of resources
as of yet untapped. People who felt trapped yet were resourceful
could simply try their luck elsewhere.

Yes, I guess that would explain Hong Kong and Japan's success as well.

Japan *has* a social infrastructure far better than America's. It was
also the second most oil hungry nation in the World after the US (be-
fore China overtook it recently). As for Hong Kong, it was filling a
niche market as a free port in an otherwise restrictive region.

The niche market explanation goes for Japan as well. They've been in
quite a recession for some time, in case you haven't noticed, and for
three reasons:

a) Rising energy prices,
b) the fact that China and South Korea have been taking over since,
and
c) lack of space to further expand into.

China is the world's most impressively growing economy at the time.
Would you call their system a triumph of the American Way as well?
Maybe, but the fact remains that if the rest of the world used up as
much energy as the US does (or even we do) there wouldn't be enough to
go around. So you either find some source that can give all of us our
fill (*cough* space *cough*) or you better not export your way of life
*everywhere*

Well, the fact that you're focusing on Iraq and Iran tells us that
you're actually not planning on the latter...


--
__ "A good leader knows when it's best to ignore the __
('__` screams for help and focus on the bigger picture." '__`)
//6(6; ©OOL mmv :^)^\\
`\_-/ http://home.t-online.de/home/ulrich....lmann/redbaron \-_/'

Karl M. Syring wrote:
After WWII, the US represented 60% of the world economy, now it is
just at 21% percent and strongly on the decline. I would call this
"going down the drain".

JFK would have called it a rising tide that lifted all
boats. As, indeed, it is. The US has not gone down
since then, only up. Today an American earning entry
level wages can enjoy a quality of living which is well
above the average of post-WWII America. Today, the same
is true for many other countries. This is a good thing.