Flash Blinded By Green Laser

Wouldn't ya know it? I FINALLY get a green laser of my own, and now =
they're
gonna be OUTLAWED! ;-)


Maybe i should order one now too before it's too late. ;-/

-Florian

Is the collimator more a risk than the pointer?
I don't think there is a difference.

H.

"Gary Honis" wrote:
I've been watching the news channel reports today on green lasers and the
dangers to pilots. I've also been reading the messages here about using
snip
They are another form of light pollution.


In which club do you perform stand-up comedy?

In article , Mike Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:04:53 GMT, Stuart Levy wrote:

I have a 5mW green laser, and have tried shining it into my own eye --
briefly (1 second or so) but at short range, so that the beam diameter
was smaller than my pupil -- while dark adapted.

You're a brave man, Stuart. I'm glad your experiment turned out alright.

Well -- of course I would have looked away sooner if it had seemed really
dangerously bright!

Based on comments which Chris Peterson had made in the past,
I wasn't really worried about trying a brief exposure to a sub-5mW
laser, but I'd *never* try it with one of much higher power.
Nor would I want to own one or be in the vicinity of anyone else
using a higher-power laser.

There was at least one of those at Astrofest this year -- its beam
was clearly visible as a line-in-the-air from a source hundreds of
feet away, while beams from those of us with low-power green laser
pointers (including me) were hard to see if you stood more than a few
feet from the source.

I wish they weren't so easily available.

Stuart

Stuart Levy wrote:

Based on comments which Chris Peterson had made in the past,
I wasn't really worried about trying a brief exposure to a sub-5mW
laser, but I'd *never* try it with one of much higher power.

This begs the question of how you determined that the laser was actually
sub-5mW, prior to the "experiment".

;-)

-Stephen

gubbenimanen wrote:
Hey, what about using a green laser for collimation of a big dobsonian?

I don't know--I don't use a laser collimator. But my comment was
directed toward situations where an observer was at the eyepiece of
the telescope.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt

Truly sorry to hear about this incident.

Gary, you left me on the edge of my seat....

did your vision return to normal?

do you still get any after images?

Frankly, while the chances of accidents are remote, I've avoided laser
collimators for just such reasons. I can all too readily see
inadvertently doing something wrong, or someone else inadvertently doing
something wrong (or goofing around), and would just as soon avoid any
problems, especially given how precious eyesight is to this hobby!

Plus, there are have been many threads over the years on s.a.a. , from
experienced collimators, that the Cheshire/sight tube is a necessary
first step anyway--and does just as well or even better than a laser, so
why bother? It's just one more hi-tech gizmo to have to bring along
(and worry about if it gets in the wrong hands or is misused).

Larry Stedman
Vestal

Your "experiment" proves that uninformed people are dangerous to
themselves and others. You should not own even that 5 mW laser!

The retina of the eye cannot feel pain. Just because you decided to try
and destroy a portion of it doesn't mean that green lasers are eyesafe.
I hope you tried this stunt in private where no one else could witness
your stupidity.

Stuart Levy wrote:
In article , Mike Simmons wrote:

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:04:53 GMT, Stuart Levy wrote:


I have a 5mW green laser, and have tried shining it into my own eye --
briefly (1 second or so) but at short range, so that the beam diameter
was smaller than my pupil -- while dark adapted.

You're a brave man, Stuart. I'm glad your experiment turned out alright.


Well -- of course I would have looked away sooner if it had seemed really
dangerously bright!

Based on comments which Chris Peterson had made in the past,
I wasn't really worried about trying a brief exposure to a sub-5mW
laser, but I'd *never* try it with one of much higher power.
Nor would I want to own one or be in the vicinity of anyone else
using a higher-power laser.

There was at least one of those at Astrofest this year -- its beam
was clearly visible as a line-in-the-air from a source hundreds of
feet away, while beams from those of us with low-power green laser
pointers (including me) were hard to see if you stood more than a few
feet from the source.

I wish they weren't so easily available.

Stuart

Tim Killian wrote:
Your "experiment" proves that uninformed people are dangerous to
themselves and others. You should not own even that 5 mW laser!

The retina of the eye cannot feel pain. Just because you decided to try
and destroy a portion of it doesn't mean that green lasers are eyesafe.
I hope you tried this stunt in private where no one else could witness
your stupidity.

Let's put aside for the moment whether Stuart should have performed the
experiment, or whether he is really uninformed--which, after all, you
don't really know.

If the claim is that a pilot was flash blinded at thousands of meters,
then Stuart's inability to flash blind himself at less than a meter is
entirely relevant and establishes the case that it can't have happened--
at least not in the way described. I hope that Stuart hasn't damaged
his retina indetectably, but even if he has, that wasn't the nature of
the claim.

You seem determined to demonstrate a danger that you intuitively feel
is inherent in these devices, in defiance of both the measured divergence
of the beams and experience with the laser pointers (wise or not). I
say this only because you have ignored the lesson of the experiment in
favor of criticizing whether it should ever have been carried out.

Brian Tung
The Astronomy Corner at http://astro.isi.edu/
Unofficial C5+ Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/c5plus/
The PleiadAtlas Home Page at http://astro.isi.edu/pleiadatlas/
My Own Personal FAQ (SAA) at http://astro.isi.edu/reference/faq.txt

Rod Mollise wrote in message
...
When a pilot says he was "flash blinded" by a green laser, I know
what he experienced and the disorientation that results.

Hi:

You do? Well, tell me how some pilot was "flash blinded" by a handheld
laser
pointer at 5 or 10k feet? How was it guided? How was it pointed into the
cockpit? What about the tremendous beam dispersion?

I have several friends who are airline pilots, and I respect them
tremendously.
But, as they will tell you, when you're tired and immersed in what is
basically
a disorienting enviroment, it's very possible to see things that ain't so,
from
zooming saucers to laserspots. Unless these incidents were documented with
laser radiation detectors, I wouldn't call them "proven."

If these incidents were a terrorist attack, yes, it's serious, VERY
SERIOUS,
but it was NOT done with a 5mw handheld laserpointer.

I don't think they (green lasers) should be used in an environment where
they
can irritate other folks, but they are not useless, especially for
educators.

I'm very sorry--VERY--that you were injured by a laser flash, but I must
also
say this is not a common incident. I've been to plenty of star parties over
the
last 5 years or so since the greenies started becoming popular, and I can't
recall somebody creating a problem with one. That doesn't mean that there
are
not kooks and careless people out there, just that they must be the
exception
rather than the rule among amateurs.

Frankly, I'm afraid I see the beginnings of an anti-green-laser movement
not
unlike some segments of the anti-gun movement:

"We don't care if you're a law-abiding citizen who uses that laser/pistol
responsibly. No one should be allowed to have a laser/firearm."

Wouldn't ya know it? I FINALLY get a green laser of my own, and now they're
gonna be OUTLAWED! ;-)


Peace,
Rod Mollise
Author of _Choosing and Using a Schmidt Cassegrain Telescope_
Like SCTs and MCTs?
Check-out sct-user, the mailing list for CAT fanciers!
Goto http://members.aol.com/RMOLLISE/index.html

Rod, maybe it's just me, but I find this anti green laser hysteria beyond
ludicrous . It is a sad phenomenon which goes hand in hand with the general
public lack of culture and education in many other issues. Public attitude
is so easily manipulated or misdirected due to random or totally irrelevant
factors , be it mass media stupidity or hidden agendas .
Yes, good for the government for keeping us safe from green laser attacks.
Except such attacks can not take place with any readily available laser,
class iiia, b, or even slightly higher power .
Yes, maybe a pilot can lose temporarily or not, partially or not sight in
one of his eyes. Not both eyes since a beam that's diverging so much to
cover both eyes couldn't cause any harm, and having both eyes hit
consecutively by a narrowly collimated beam at 10k feet away in the dark
without even being seen by the attacker is a feat that borders science
fiction. Even snipers couldn't do that . However, airliners have more than
one pilot , pilots have more than one eye.
So it all boils down to how dangerous are low power lasers. Yes, they can
cause some problems if used improperly. More problems than a high velocity
bullett hitting someone in the eye ? But wait, guns aren't banned, are they.
People could simply shoot at airplanes at the same range these green lasers
are allegedly dangerous . If someone can hit a pilot in the eye with a
collimated laser beam at 3 miles away, the same guy could hit the pilot in
the eye shooting a dear old rifle, not green lasers .
Long sharp kitchen knives aren't banned, although using them irresponsibly
could cause harm. Milling machines, lathes, and other tools, including air
tools or nail guns aren't banned, although there was an accident with a
worker who was shot in the eye with a stapler gun. Even heavy telescopes are
dangerous, people can and probably pull muscles, fall, scopes fall on
people's limbs, with millions of amateurs worldwide, and most of us getting
older, this is a real danger. This seems more and more in the let's ban
everything attitude, while real problems are never addressed. We can buy
guns, loads of ammo, kids could blow their brains off by using parents guns,
playing with ammo, or even immitating violence they see on tv (and which is
not banned despite its clear danger) . We can drive while talking on the
darn cell phones despite evidence of increased accident rates, we can use
our cell phones despite likelihood of brain cancer risks due to microwave
radiation, we could watch tv despite x-ray dangers from old crt's , we could
even live in places where there are nuclear reactor fuel leaks, but hey,
green lasers are THE danger to fight now. Long live big brother.

best regards,
matt tudor