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Can Life develop in the expanded habitable zones around Red Giant Stars?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 13th 05, 12:50 PM
Joseph Lazio
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Default Can Life develop in the expanded habitable zones around Red Giant Stars?

More from astro-ph:

Paper: astro-ph/0503520
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:46:20 GMT (58kb)

Title: Can Life develop in the expanded habitable zones around Red Giant Stars?
Authors: Bruno Lopez, Jean Schneider, William C. Danchi

We present some new ideas about the possibility of life developing
around sub-giant and red giant stars. Our study concerns the temporal
evolution of the habitable zone. The distance between the star and the
habitable zone, as well as its width, increases with time as a
consequence of stellar evolution. The habitable zone moves outward
after the star leaves the main sequence, sweeping a wider range of
distances from the star until the star reaches the tip of the
asymptotic giant branch. If life could form and evolve over time
intervals from $5 \times 10^8$ to $10^9$ years, then there could be
habitable planets with life around red giant stars. For a 1
M$_{\odot}$ star at the first stages of its post main-sequence
evolution, the temporal transit of the habitable zone is estimated to
be of several 10$^9$ years at 2 AU and around 10$^8$ years at 9
AU. Under these circumstances life could develop at distances in the
range 2-9 AU in the environment of sub-giant or giant stars and in the
far distant future in the environment of our own Solar System. After a
star completes its first ascent along the Red Giant Branch and the He
flash takes place, there is an additional stable period of quiescent
He core burning during which there is another opportunity for life to
develop. For a 1 M$_{\odot}$ star there is an additional $10^9$ years
with a stable habitable zone in the region from 7 to 22 AU. Space
astronomy missions, such as proposed for the Terrestrial Planet Finder
(TPF) and Darwin should also consider the environments of sub-giants
and red giant stars as potentially interesting sites for understanding
the development of life.

( http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0503520 , 58kb)

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  #2  
Old July 13th 05, 04:26 PM
Alfred A. Aburto Jr.
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Joseph Lazio wrote:
More from astro-ph:

Paper: astro-ph/0503520
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:46:20 GMT (58kb)

Title: Can Life develop in the expanded habitable zones around Red Giant Stars?
Authors: Bruno Lopez, Jean Schneider, William C. Danchi

We present some new ideas about the possibility of life developing
around sub-giant and red giant stars. Our study concerns the temporal
evolution of the habitable zone. The distance between the star and the
habitable zone, as well as its width, increases with time as a
consequence of stellar evolution. The habitable zone moves outward
after the star leaves the main sequence, sweeping a wider range of
distances from the star until the star reaches the tip of the
asymptotic giant branch. If life could form and evolve over time
intervals from $5 \times 10^8$ to $10^9$ years, then there could be
habitable planets with life around red giant stars. For a 1
M$_{\odot}$ star at the first stages of its post main-sequence
evolution, the temporal transit of the habitable zone is estimated to
be of several 10$^9$ years at 2 AU and around 10$^8$ years at 9
AU. Under these circumstances life could develop at distances in the
range 2-9 AU in the environment of sub-giant or giant stars and in the
far distant future in the environment of our own Solar System. After a
star completes its first ascent along the Red Giant Branch and the He
flash takes place, there is an additional stable period of quiescent
He core burning during which there is another opportunity for life to
develop. For a 1 M$_{\odot}$ star there is an additional $10^9$ years
with a stable habitable zone in the region from 7 to 22 AU. Space
astronomy missions, such as proposed for the Terrestrial Planet Finder
(TPF) and Darwin should also consider the environments of sub-giants
and red giant stars as potentially interesting sites for understanding
the development of life.

( http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0503520 , 58kb)


Very interesting! Great idea really. More and more scientists are seeing
that life could be just about anywhere.

The key to the whole argument is that about 5 * 10^8 to 10^9 years is
all that may be needed for life to form. It would be great to confirm
that ... to determine that what happened on Earth was just not some
extremely rare accident ...
  #3  
Old July 14th 05, 08:37 PM
Brad Guth
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Sirius-b was once upon a time a very red-giant, thus likely a bit older
than our star and now having been taking it's UV-c and worse toll upon
whomever and/or whatever managed to have survived that somewhat testy
red-giant phase of an environment, though not entirely impossible for a
Venus like planet, especially if made into orbiting and/or perhaps
already coexisting about Sirius-a.

Question;
How much of a Kuiper/Oort zone of icy orbs is available to the Sirius
star system?
~

This is your basic Hot Township, Bridge & Tarmac upon Venus:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
China/Russian LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator)
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus life & a few other topics from Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm

  #4  
Old July 26th 05, 05:54 PM
Brad Guth
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Joseph Lazio and Alfred A. Aburto Jr.,
That's rather downright odd. Here I'd contributed as to the matter of
astronomy fact that Sirius-b was likely if not astrophysics-101
required as once upon a time being a red-giant, and lo and behold, darn
if it seems as though all of the topic lights went out. Why is that? or
perhaps what's so gosh darn taboo/nondisclosure about the Sirius star
system?

http://www.solstation.com/stars/sirius2.htm
Hunt for Sirius C and Substellar Companions

According to Duchner and Brown (2000 preprint -- in postscript), three
analyses of the proper motion of Sirius found a perturbation in the
orbit of Sirius B with a period around six years (Ch. Volet, 1932;
Walbaum and Duvent, 1983; and Benest and Duvent, 1995). The analyses
did not resolve whether the perturbing body orbits Sirius A or B,
although dynamical simulations suggest that stable orbits exist around
both stars at circumstellar distances up to more than half the binary
system's closest separation of 8.1 AUs (Daniel Benest, 1989). Because
ancient astronomers believed that Sirius was red in color as late as
2,000 years ago, some investigators wonder if the system may have a
third stellar component, Sirius C, with about five percent of Sol's
mass that implies a spectral type M5-9 in a six-year elliptical orbit
around Sirius A (Benest and Duvent, 1995). A recent search for faint
companions using the Hubble Space Telescope found no supporting
evidence for a large Jupiter or brown dwarf sized object, although the
observed positions of Sirius AB -- Gl 244 AB -- differed from published
orbital elements (Schroeder et al, 2000).

http://www.tcnj.edu/~pfeiffer/AST261Chap3.html
4. The majority (about 80 t0 85%) of stars in the solar neighborhood
are binary stars.
Single stars like our sol are clearly within the minority.

http://www.siriusresearchgroup.com/articles/ogo3.shtml
The Sirius Research Group / Email
~

Life upon Venus offers energy to burn, even though as such it will not
actually burn within such an O2 starved environment as having been
hosting a perfectly rational township of a community that includes a
bridge and a few of your standard rigid airships plus that nifty UFO
Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The ESA Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as situated
within the ME-L1/EM-L2 zone
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy topics by; Brad
Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm

BTW; I've come to realize that other life must have been possible upon
Venus, at least as of nearly 6 years ago when I'd first interpreted
upon one of so many radar images (especially of what the 36 look/pixel
of an 8-bit/pixel worth of roughly 225 m/pixel resolution), as to what
honestly looks quite community like, although there's also somewhat
other most interesting natural aspects from such images that doesn't
quite doesn't jive with the purely hot and nasty sort of roasting world
as having been artificially painted and otherwise infomercial hyped by
our MI5/NSA~NASA rusemasters that would like you to believe this is
entirely my own doings without having a shred of evidence nor having
made multiple efforts as to sharing with others from the very get-go.
Of course, I've since come to perceive that our NASA summarily sucks,
among other nastier if not despicable sorts of things.

  #5  
Old July 27th 05, 01:20 AM
Brad Guth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Joseph Lazio and Alfred A. Aburto Jr.,
That's rather downright odd. Here I'd honestly contributed as to the
matter of an astronomy fact that Sirius-b was most likely if not
astrophysics-101 somewhat required as once upon a time being such a
red-giant, and lo and behold, gosh darn if it seems as though all of
the topic lights went out. Why the heck is that? or perhaps what's so
gosh darn taboo/nondisclosure about the Sirius star system?

http://www.solstation.com/stars/sirius2.htm
Hunt for Sirius C and Substellar Companions
According to Duchner and Brown (2000 preprint -- in postscript), three
analyses of the proper motion of Sirius found a perturbation in the
orbit of Sirius B with a period around six years (Ch. Volet, 1932;
Walbaum and Duvent, 1983; and Benest and Duvent, 1995). The analyses
did not resolve whether the perturbing body orbits Sirius A or B,
although dynamical simulations suggest that stable orbits exist around
both stars at circumstellar distances up to more than half the binary
system's closest separation of 8.1 AUs (Daniel Benest, 1989). Because
ancient astronomers believed that Sirius was red in color as late as
2,000 years ago, some investigators wonder if the system may have a
third stellar component, Sirius C, with about five percent of Sol's
mass that implies a spectral type M5-9 in a six-year elliptical orbit
around Sirius A (Benest and Duvent, 1995). A recent search for faint
companions using the Hubble Space Telescope found no supporting
evidence for a large Jupiter or brown dwarf sized object, although the
observed positions of Sirius AB -- Gl 244 AB -- differed from published
orbital elements (Schroeder et al, 2000).

http://www.tcnj.edu/~pfeiffer/AST261Chap3.html
4. The majority (about 80 t0 85%) of stars in the solar neighborhood
are binary stars.
Single stars like our sol are clearly within the minority.

http://www.siriusresearchgroup.com/articles/ogo3.shtml
The Sirius Research Group / Email
~

Life upon Venus offers energy to burn, even though as such it will not
actually burn within such an O2 starved environment as having been
hosting a perfectly rational township of a fairly robust community that
includes a bridge and a few of your standard rigid airships plus that
nifty UFO Park-n-Ride Tarmac:
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The ESA Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as situated
within the ME-L1/EM-L2 zone
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy topics by; Brad
Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm

BTW; I've come to realize that other life (possibly ETs) must have been
possible upon Venus, at least as of nearly 6 years ago when I'd first
interpreted upon one of so many terrific radar images (especially of
what the 36 look/pixel of an 8-bit contrast worth of roughly 225
m/pixel resolution), as to what honestly looks quite community like,
although there's also somewhat other most interesting natural aspects
from such images that doesn't quite jive with the purely hot and nasty
sort of roasting world as having been artificially PhotoShop painted
and otherwise infomercial hyped by our MI5/NSA~NASA rusemasters that
would like you to believe this is entirely my own doings without having
a shred of evidence nor having made multiple efforts as to sharing with
others from the very get-go. Of course, I've since come to perceive
that our NASA (MI5/NSA) summarily sucks, among other much nastier if
not despicable sorts of things.

  #6  
Old August 13th 05, 04:35 PM
Brad Guth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Joseph Lazio and Alfred A. Aburto Jr.,
Here I'd thought this was a perfectly terrific topic of "Life develop
in the expanded habitable zones around Red Giant Stars", of the sorts
of red-giants as once upon a time having been similar to our sun, thus
having to suggest as to those sorts of stellar environments as having
been much older than our sun, such as for Sirius-b as having to have
been just such a red-giant in order that early astronomy had pegged
such as a very reddish star system.

Unfortunately, mention anything Sirius and the problem is is that all
of the lights go out, meaning that simply because it's the nearest
significant other star system that could have and may still accommodate
viable planets, not to mention the stellar motion of our an ongoing
elliptical recession which clearly places us rather nearby that sucker
from time to time, is just another good example of the ulterior motives
of this and most other groups that would much rather focus upon their
believing in and fostering a well known pack of lies than to focus upon
the nearby truth and nothing but the truth.

I guess social/political conditional physics and of their hocus pocus
soft-astronomy of MOS LLPOF brown-nose ideology is all that matters.
Wouldn't want to rock any of those pagan intellectual mainstream boats,
especially any of those good ships hauling public funding for
whatever's going to suit their mutually perpetrated status quo, of
thereby without a stitch of remorse towards fostering as much
collateral damage and of the innocent blood and guts of those standing
in the way of their ruse/sting of the century is apparently the one and
only viable course.
~
In spite of the ongoing orchestrated status quo, it seems there's been
other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as interactive within
the ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Of things Sirius, proto-moons, Venus, Earthly ETs & somewhat testy
topics by; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm

  #7  
Old August 14th 05, 08:06 AM
AA Institute
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Posts: n/a
Default

Brad Guth wrote:
Joseph Lazio and Alfred A. Aburto Jr.,
Here I'd thought this was a perfectly terrific topic of "Life develop
in the expanded habitable zones around Red Giant Stars", of the sorts
of red-giants as once upon a time having been similar to our sun, thus
having to suggest as to those sorts of stellar environments as having
been much older than our sun, such as for Sirius-b as having to have
been just such a red-giant in order that early astronomy had pegged
such as a very reddish star system.


I wonder if life could have evolved in the variable, expanding
habitable zone around the "Ruby Star"?

http://www.astroscience.org/abdul-ahad/ruby-star.htm

With a habitable zone fluctuating anywhere between 60 and 75 AUs out,
in line with the star's intrinsic power variations, I think not!

AA

  #8  
Old August 14th 05, 05:49 PM
Brad Guth
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Posts: n/a
Default

AA Institute;
I wonder if life could have evolved in the variable, expanding
habitable zone around the "Ruby Star"?

http://www.astroscience.org/abdul-ahad/ruby-star.htm
That's an extremely interesting contribution.
I think you're right, at least as for the likes of whatever's locally
grown as "Ruby Star" life might have had to have become well
accommodated with a certain degree of perhaps superior exoskeletal
biology and/or having applied technology, such as for having to survive
upon a well cloaked Venus like planet in order to deal with such
extremes of that somewhat less variable environment. Of course, at
60+AU the orbit of a fairly robust planet might not involve such quick
changes in their surface environment, thus livable is perhaps an
obtainable goal with an open mind and the desire of seeing another day
before your time is up.

Perhaps if there were a Saturn like planet having reasonably large
moons, whereas the host planet would form a sufficient shield that
would somewhat moderate on behalf of whatever moon inhabitants.
Actually, as long as there's a good amount of available energy and a
few of the essential elements to go around, other life can manage to
survive just about anywhere.

Perhaps there actually an extremely large (100X Jupiter) sized planet
that's 100+AU, as such causing the indications of the variable aspects
of the Ruby Star. If so, there's a good chance that larger than Earth
sized moons may coexist about that massive orb that would be somewhat
acting as a proto-star of it's own right.
~

In spite of the ongoing orchestrated status quo, it seems there's been
other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as interactive within
the ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Of things Sirius, proto-moons, Venus, Earthly ETs & somewhat testy
topics by; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm

 




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