What type of climate

If people really want to be speculative in a productive way then they can consider what surface conditions of the Earth would be if the inclination was similar to Uranus while the Earth retains the same rotational speed ,orbital period and distance from the Sun.

http://www.spacetelescope.org/static...n/opo0732g.jpg

It may be fine for computer modelers to start with the idea that the Earth is a greenhouse and then make nuisances of themselves drawing a conclusion however astronomers are held to a different standard.

The fact is that irrespective of orbital,rotational traits and distance from the Sun, planetary climate has a common foundation in terms of the relationship between axial inclination to the orbital plane of a planet generating a climate spectrum from 0 Degrees to 90 Degrees and the corresponding description of an Equatorial climate (0 Deg) to a Polar climate (90 Deg).

So,if the Earth had the same inclination as Uranus it would have a Polar climate with massive swings in surface conditions across an orbital circuit. The guys using computer modeling should have a ball with this approach rather than making a fuss over a poor foundation for planetary climate and even poorer assertions.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 00:13:44 -0800 (PST), oriel36
wrote:
onsider what surface conditions of the Earth would be if the
inclination wa=
s similar to Uranus while the Earth retains the same rotational
speed ,orbi=
tal period and distance from the Sun.

Has the late Alexander Abian been resurrected? ?

On Saturday, November 22, 2014 10:44:16 PM UTC, Paul Schlyter wrote:
On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 00:13:44 -0800 (PST), oriel36
wrote:
onsider what surface conditions of the Earth would be if the
inclination wa=
s similar to Uranus while the Earth retains the same rotational
speed ,orbi=
tal period and distance from the Sun.

Has the late Alexander Abian been resurrected? ?

You lost your influence a long time ago Schlyter with your wandering analemma Sun and the Equation of Time but take comfort that you join a long line of such empirical drones with nothing left to say.

The only concession I can offer to modelers is to make planetary comparisons based on heat distribution across latitudes over an orbital circuit with varying degrees of inclination. They can even speculative what type of climate the Earth would have with a 3 degree inclination of Jupiter or an 82 Degree inclination like Uranus thereby nailing down the climate spectrum between Equatorial and Polar.

Crawl back into the shadows son where you can live out the rest of your life popping up every now and again to say something meaningless and leave climate research to me.

There is no doubt whatsoever that a root and branch treatment is needed to discover how terrestrial sciences mesh with planetary dynamics and astronomy. In the matter of climate it is crucial to recognize that the Earth has two separate surface rotations to the central Sun causing both the seasons and natural noon cycles to vary and this allows axial inclination to serve its actual purpose in defining a planet's spectrum between Equatorial and Polar.

What is it that prevents observers from discerning the surface rotation as a function of the orbital motion of a planet as it moves through space and turns at the same time if not by analogy then by direct observation -

http://londonastronomer.files.wordpr..._2001-2007.jpg


Is the observation of two separate surface rotations acting together so repulsive that observers would prefer a nondescript 'earth tilts towards and away from the Sun' idea that has become inadequate for 21st century purposes..

In article ,
oriel36 wrote:
Is the observation of two separate surface rotations acting together so
repulsive that observers would prefer a nondescript 'earth tilts towards
and away from the Sun' idea that has become inadequate for 21st century
purposes.

Yes. Yes it is.

You have the earth turning as it orbits, with a second rotation
just happening to counteract that turning so that the earth's axis
remains pointing towards Polaris. That's not just inelegant,
it's downright ugly.

What's more, it's contradicted by experiment. Rotation is a physical
process with physical effects. We observe Coriolis forces affecting
hurricanes; we observe the motion of Foucault pendulums. If the earth
had a second rotation, that too would have effects. We don't see them.

In your system of astronomy, orbital motion has an inherent rotational
component. But that requires the adoption of a non-inertial reference
frame. Creating equations of motion in such a frame is difficult
to impossible.

You don't understand equations, so you dismiss them all as "bluffing"
or "voodoo". But they're real. They work. People used them just
recently to land a probe on the surface of a comet. If they had tried
to follow your ideas, they NEVER would have been able to do that.

--
David Goldfarb |"You are trapped in that bright moment where you
| learned your doom."
| -- Samuel R. Delany, _City of a Thousand Suns_

On Monday, November 24, 2014 6:45:07 AM UTC, David Goldfarb wrote:
In article ,
oriel36 wrote:
Is the observation of two separate surface rotations acting together so
repulsive that observers would prefer a nondescript 'earth tilts towards
and away from the Sun' idea that has become inadequate for 21st century
purposes.

Yes. Yes it is.

You have the earth turning as it orbits, with a second rotation
just happening to counteract that turning so that the earth's axis
remains pointing towards Polaris. That's not just inelegant,
it's downright ugly.


You are out of your depth son, it would be a major achievement to get observers to recognize dual surface rotations to the central Sun needed to explain both the seasons and why natural noon cycles vary with each sweep of the Sun across a meridian.

The fact that observers can actually see a planet turns in two separate ways doesn't guarantee that they will move on the insight which replaces the outdated idea of a tilting Earth toward and away from the Sun and adopt the dual rotational approach -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=612gSZsplpE

About 45 seconds in where the time period is condensed, the surface rotation as Uranus moves through space and turns as it does so (over and above its axial rotation) becomes obvious and the Earth is no different.

Not until researchers come to grips with the dual surface rotations thereby displacing any notion of variable tilt to the Sun can climate studies begin as a planet's climate is determined with planetary dynamics and astronomy and especially fixed axial inclination.

So, genuine astronomers will enjoy the elegant surface rotations while others,like yourself, will not see those motions and consider the whole thing ugly. It is not for everyone or at least those who have a poor explanation burned into their unthinking brain but for others they can enjoy the spectacle behind two variations in surface temperatures as the Earth turns daily and then the seasonal variation in temperatures owing to the orbital surface rotation arising from the orbital characteristics of a planet.

In article ,
oriel36 wrote:
You are out of your depth son,

The pot and the kettle. But then it comes as no surprise that you,
who constantly repeat yourself while accusing others of "chanting
voodoo", and who talk about things you have no understanding of
while accusing others of "bluffing", continue your campaign of
projection here.

--
David Goldfarb |"The Uncertainty Principle allows particles
| to travel faster than light over short distances."
| -- Stephen Hawking

On Monday, November 24, 2014 8:15:04 PM UTC, David Goldfarb wrote:
In article ,
oriel36 wrote:
You are out of your depth son,

The pot and the kettle. But then it comes as no surprise that you,
who constantly repeat yourself while accusing others of "chanting
voodoo", and who talk about things you have no understanding of
while accusing others of "bluffing", continue your campaign of
projection here.

--
David Goldfarb |"The Uncertainty Principle allows particles
| to travel faster than light over short distances."
| -- Stephen Hawking

My dear man, the person standing on either the North or South pole will experience a single day/night cycle over the course of a year and much like the daily day/night cycle at lower latitudes there is a surface rotation to the central Sun behind it hence dual rotations that are quite distinct from each other yet they combine to create the seasons and global variations in the daily noon cycle.

It should be second nature by now in watching a planet turn as a function of a planet's orbital motion through space hence I get real satisfaction from that Hubble imaging of Uranus over a period of a few years. It doesn't matter if nobody else does but it is there for those who take pride in these things -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=612gSZsplpE

It should be no problem determining,using Earth years, how many degrees Uranus turns to the Sun with each pass of the Earth. With Uranus taking 84 Earth years to complete one Uranus year that should be a simply case of division.

This innovation should have received insight of the year a decade ago but unfortunately this era is dominated by theorists and their meaningless voodoo. Maybe you should join Schylter and his colleagues in the intellectual shadows but at least you did broach the technical details of dual rotations even if you find them 'ugly'.

Pulchra sunt quae visa placent.

oriel36 wrote:
On Monday, November 24, 2014 8:15:04 PM UTC, David Goldfarb wrote:
In article ,
oriel36 wrote:
You are out of your depth son,

The pot and the kettle. But then it comes as no surprise that you,
who constantly repeat yourself while accusing others of "chanting
voodoo", and who talk about things you have no understanding of
while accusing others of "bluffing", continue your campaign of
projection here.

--
David Goldfarb |"The Uncertainty Principle allows particles
| to travel faster than light over short distances."
| -- Stephen Hawking

My dear man, the person standing on either the North or South pole will
experience a single day/night cycle over the course of a year

When you go into patronising mode it's always a sign that you are feeling a
little stressed. You should realise that your subconscious knows you are
lying and wants you to stop and also stop deceiving yourself.




and much like the daily day/night cycle at lower latitudes there is a
surface rotation to the central Sun behind it hence dual rotations that
are quite distinct from each other yet they combine to create the seasons
and global variations in the daily noon cycle.


The person standing at the pole will, during the winter months see the
reality of the sidereal day as the stars return each day to the same place
all seeming to revolve around Polaris.





It should be second nature by now in watching a planet turn as a function
of a planet's orbital motion through space hence I get real satisfaction
from that Hubble imaging of Uranus over a period of a few years. It
doesn't matter if nobody else does but it is there for those who take
pride in these things -


Why do you take pride in your miserable attempts to prove that your
infantile misconceptions are wrong.

Your impaired visual perception prevents any correct interpretation of
images just as it blinds you to the logical inconsistencies of your
worldview.
Amateur astronomers have been observing Saturn and its rings for along
time. You merely looked at a few images of the rings of Uranus and as usual
drew the wrong conclusions.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?va2gSZsplpE

It should be no problem determining,using Earth years, how many degrees
Uranus turns to the Sun with each pass of the Earth. With Uranus taking
84 Earth years to complete one Uranus year that should be a simply case of division.

This innovation should have received insight of the year a decade ago but
unfortunately this era is dominated by theorists and their meaningless
voodoo. Maybe you should join Schylter and his colleagues in the
intellectual shadows but at least you did broach the technical details of
dual rotations even if you find them 'ugly'.

Pulchra sunt quae visa placent.

There is no problem. Neither the Earth or Uranus tilt towards the Sun. They
are merely gyroscopes with the axes each pointing to a particular star.

In article ,
oriel36 wrote:
Pulchra sunt quae visa placent.

Tolle caput ex culo.

--
David Goldfarb |"You know, squids are really an underutilized
| villain origin in many comic books today."
| -- David R. Henry