The perpetual calendar

Andrew Usher wrote:
On Feb 19, 3:07 pm, António Marques wrote:

The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that Christmas
is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all get at
least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?
Less than around 30% of the world population cares about Christmas or
Easter or think that "Christmas is the most important holiday in the
year".
Well, but for those who don't it doesn't really matter one way or the other
what day Christmas and Easter Sunday are, does it? So what relevance do they
have for you to bring them along? Or was it just the desire to sound clever?

Right, and I figure that my calendar would be no worse than the
present for those that don't.

Indeed, I considered this problem purely as a logical one; as I've
stated, I don't consider myself Christian, I adopted the Church
calendar as a base only because it makes the problem more interesting.

I didn't consider my calendar complete until I worked out my new leap
year rule (Rule #3) - it not only ensures that both Christmas and
Easter are within 7-day periods despite being a constant distance from
each other and having leap day in between, it simultaneously causes
there to be exactly 52 Sundays in every year if you take out Nov. 1
which is All Saints' day; this immediately allows te to draw up a
permanent list of the Sundays in the year with their traditional
Christian designations, and then follow the perpetual calendar.

And I moved the start of the week numbering to August from Nov. 1 so
that the academic year and the US football season would be on the
fixed schedule, and I think there can be no objection to that. The
holidays I consider are Christmas and Easter (and of course the Church
festivals fixed to them, but hardly anyone cares anymore), and US
Thanksgiving - but other civil holidays could easily be fixed to the
same if they are now observed on a Monday, say, or otherwise not fixed
to a particular date.

Andrew Usher

Which academic year are you considering? I can think of several
variations - K-12 vs universities and colleges, to begin with, and there
are even variations among the K-12 school years in different
jurisdictions - and even within the same one, in places where some
schools have a year-round schedule.

I will confess to being totally indifferent to the US football schedule.
In fact, I couldn't tell you what it is now, except for a vague
impression that it occurs in the fall, or possibly winter.

--
Cheryl

In sci.physics António Marques wrote:
wrote (19-02-2010 19:21):
In sci.physics Andrew wrote:
On Feb 19, 11:52 am, wrote:

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You
might as well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you
suggesting that we only take holidays at Easter every four years or
so, when your “settled� date just happens to correspond with the
right lunar phase?

We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.

It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate
my birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".

The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that Christmas
is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all get at
least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?

Less than around 30% of the world population cares about Christmas or
Easter or think that "Christmas is the most important holiday in the
year".

Well, but for those who don't it doesn't really matter one way or the other
what day Christmas and Easter Sunday are, does it? So what relevance do they
have for you to bring them along? Or was it just the desire to sound clever?

That a calendar serves a purpose beyond keeping track of regional, ethnic,
or religious "celebrations" of one small group.

And trying to come up with a new calendar fixating on Christmas is about
as logical as fixating on Waitangi Day.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Feb 19, 1:02*pm, Cheryl wrote:
Halmyre wrote:
On 19 Feb, 09:12, John Atkinson wrote:
Halmyre wrote:
On 19 Feb, 04:58, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
"Andrew Usher" wrote in message
...
Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
say the following:
1. That Christmas day should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be
the Sunday between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries
the Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
normally.
2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the Sunday which is 15
weeks following Christmas.
3. That the leap year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every
fourth save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which is near
enough.
4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by considering the first
day of the year of weeks to occur on the Sunday after the Assumption,
and if this is the first possible calendar day, it is called week 1,
and otherwise week 2, and every year runs through week 53. And this
calendar ensures that everything can be fixed to a day of a certain
week, in particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
before Christmas.
6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
inherited from the Romans.
Andrew Usher
The calendar has several sources, not just the Rome and the onewe habe in
fine as it is
I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.
But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! *You might as
well scrap the whole thing otherwise. *Or are you suggesting that we
only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled”
date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?

We don't have Christmas only when there's a bright star in the east.

It's like saying "I was born on a Wednesday, so I'll only celebrate my
birthday when it falls on a Wednesday".

--
Halmyre

I suppose it all comes down to how much predictability each person
likes. Some people like all their holidays to come at the same time each
year, and others are happy to put up with Easter, for example, coming
late some years because other years it comes nice and early, which makes
a much-needed break in a long winter. I never did consider Easter to be
necessarily a spring holiday, myself.

Of course, people living in places where they already have public
holidays in all three of the dreary months of January, February and
March wouldn't greet an early Easter with as much enthusiasm as I do.

And I know Easter doesn't occur in January or February, but they seem
much longer than they are when Easter comes in the latter part of April;
and slightly shorter than they are when I have a March Easter to look
forward to.

I want an official long holiday weekend in every single month, no
exceptions.

I thought they should have used MLK Day to commemorate the March on
Washington, rather than his birthday, since there are no holidays in
August.

On Feb 19, 4:56*pm, wrote:

Well, but for those who don't it doesn't really matter one way or the other
what day Christmas and Easter Sunday are, does it? So what relevance do they
have for you to bring them along? Or was it just the desire to sound clever?

That a calendar serves a purpose beyond keeping track of regional, ethnic,
or religious "celebrations" of one small group.

It's hardly a small group, indeed perhaps larger than that for any
other significant holiday in the world. And the Gregorian calendar
that we use as already European-centered.

And trying to come up with a new calendar fixating on Christmas is about
as logical as fixating on Waitangi Day.

This is just West-bashing.

Andrew Usher

John Atkinson wrote:
Halmyre wrote:
On 19 Feb, 04:58, "Ray O'Hara" wrote:
"Andrew Usher" wrote in message

...





Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
say the following:
1. That Christmas day should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be
the Sunday between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries
the Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
normally.
2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the Sunday which is 15
weeks following Christmas.
3. That the leap year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every
fourth save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which is near
enough.
4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by considering the first
day of the year of weeks to occur on the Sunday after the Assumption,
and if this is the first possible calendar day, it is called week 1,
and otherwise week 2, and every year runs through week 53. And this
calendar ensures that everything can be fixed to a day of a certain
week, in particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
before Christmas.
6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
inherited from the Romans.
Andrew Usher
The calendar has several sources, not just the Rome and the onewe habe in
fine as it is
I just wish they'd settle on a date for Easter and be done with it.

But, the whole point of Easter is that it has a full moon! You might as
well scrap the whole thing otherwise. Or are you suggesting that we
only take holidays at Easter every four years or so, when your “settled�
date just happens to correspond with the right lunar phase?

Really, the whole point of Easter is celebrating the coming of northern
hemisphere Spring, so it were better to change the date completely.

--

Rob Bannister

Andrew Usher wrote:
Owing to the inconveniences which attend the shifting of the calendar,
and attempting in passing to create a more perfect Church calendar, I
say the following:

1. That Christmas day should be fixed to a Sunday, and this should be
the Sunday between Dec. 21 and 27, and that in all civilised countries
the Monday should be considered a holiday, or the Saturday if not
normally.

2. That similarly Easter day should be fixed to the Sunday which is 15
weeks following Christmas.

3. That the leap year rule be changed to have a leap year occur every
fourth save that it be delayed when the leap year would start on a
Thursday, and that this gives 7 leap years in every 29, which is near
enough.

4. That the perpetual calendar can be made, by considering the first
day of the year of weeks to occur on the Sunday after the Assumption,
and if this is the first possible calendar day, it is called week 1,
and otherwise week 2, and every year runs through week 53. And this
calendar ensures that everything can be fixed to a day of a certain
week, in particular the American Thanksgiving must be made 31 days
before Christmas.

6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
inherited from the Romans.

If you are going to try to make it sensible, then please give us 13
four-week months with one or two specially named days at the end of the
year to even it out. The first day of each month should be a Monday.


--

Rob Bannister

On Feb 19, 6:07*pm, Robert Bannister wrote:

6. This is surely the best possible arrangement that can be made,
without disturbing the cycle of weeks or that of calendar days
inherited from the Romans.

If you are going to try to make it sensible, then please give us 13
four-week months with one or two specially named days at the end of the
year to even it out. The first day of each month should be a Monday.

Once again, I said that I excluded having days outside the week. And
the first day of the week is Sunday, not Monday - that is an
incontrovertible fact.

Having 13 months, in addition, would screw up a bunch of things ; in
particular, 13 can't be divided.

Andrew Usher

On Feb 19, 1:38*pm, António Marques wrote:

Easter is the central feast of Christianity, would be an end in itself if
nothing else, and of which all the particulars have the highest religious
significance. (Regardless of whatever pagan festivals coincide with it in
date or outward meaning.)

I agree, but how does that mean we must celebrate Easter at the full
moon? (which the Orthodox don't, anyway)

Andrew Usher

Cheryl wrote:
Andrew Usher wrote:
On Feb 19, 3:07 pm, António Marques wrote:

The reason I fix Christmas to a Sunday has been my observation that
arranging a family Christmas is substantially more convenient when it
falls on a weekend than in the middle of the week. Given that
Christmas
is the most important holiday in the year, should we not all get at
least a 3-day weekend, which we have for lesser holidays?
Less than around 30% of the world population cares about Christmas or
Easter or think that "Christmas is the most important holiday in the
year".
Well, but for those who don't it doesn't really matter one way or the
other
what day Christmas and Easter Sunday are, does it? So what relevance
do they
have for you to bring them along? Or was it just the desire to sound
clever?

Right, and I figure that my calendar would be no worse than the
present for those that don't.

Indeed, I considered this problem purely as a logical one; as I've
stated, I don't consider myself Christian, I adopted the Church
calendar as a base only because it makes the problem more interesting.

I didn't consider my calendar complete until I worked out my new leap
year rule (Rule #3) - it not only ensures that both Christmas and
Easter are within 7-day periods despite being a constant distance from
each other and having leap day in between, it simultaneously causes
there to be exactly 52 Sundays in every year if you take out Nov. 1
which is All Saints' day; this immediately allows te to draw up a
permanent list of the Sundays in the year with their traditional
Christian designations, and then follow the perpetual calendar.

And I moved the start of the week numbering to August from Nov. 1 so
that the academic year and the US football season would be on the
fixed schedule, and I think there can be no objection to that. The
holidays I consider are Christmas and Easter (and of course the Church
festivals fixed to them, but hardly anyone cares anymore), and US
Thanksgiving - but other civil holidays could easily be fixed to the
same if they are now observed on a Monday, say, or otherwise not fixed
to a particular date.

Andrew Usher

Which academic year are you considering? I can think of several
variations - K-12 vs universities and colleges, to begin with, and there
are even variations among the K-12 school years in different
jurisdictions - and even within the same one, in places where some
schools have a year-round schedule.

I will confess to being totally indifferent to the US football schedule.
In fact, I couldn't tell you what it is now, except for a vague
impression that it occurs in the fall, or possibly winter.


And have you taken the southern hemisphere into consideration? Our
scholastic year is quite different.

--

Rob Bannister

On Feb 19, 5:07*pm, "Jonathan Morton"
wrote:
"Yusuf B Gursey" wrote in ...

Easter is a moveable feast, meaning it is not fixed in relation to the
civil calendar. The First Council of Nicaea (325) established the date
of Easter as the first Sunday after the full moon (the Paschal Full
Moon) following the vernal equinox.[3] Ecclesiastically, the equinox
is reckoned to be on March 21 (regardless of the astronomically
correct date), and the "Full Moon" is not necessarily the
astronomically correct date. The date of Easter therefore varies
between March 22 and April 25.

It does, but at present (certainly until 2199, at which point we move to a
new table) it is not capable of falling on 22 March. Of course we had 23
March in 2008 and there's a 24 April coming up next year.

Regards

Jonathan

BTW I didn't write the quoted text.