Station escape pod ?

How long would it take to develop a station escape pod that was launched
from the Shuttle ?

Probably some capsule with either APAS or CBM berthing. It would need
some manoeuvering thrusters and a de-orbit engine, and then the standard
capsule re-entry stuff (shield, parachutes, lifeboat etc). Landing in
water would be acceptable for this.


(and obbiously, a PDGF so it can be handled by the arm).


For such a simplified capsule (versus Orion) would development be
considerably simpler/faster/cheaper ? Or would it come close to
complexity ?

If you're going to de-orbit within 1 or 2 orbits and land in (any)
water, does it need a fancy ECLSS system, or could it just have
compressed air supplied to masks ?

By the time you have one, you have no room for anything else.



Brian

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"John Doe" wrote in message
...
How long would it take to develop a station escape pod that was launched
from the Shuttle ?

Probably some capsule with either APAS or CBM berthing. It would need
some manoeuvering thrusters and a de-orbit engine, and then the standard
capsule re-entry stuff (shield, parachutes, lifeboat etc). Landing in
water would be acceptable for this.


(and obbiously, a PDGF so it can be handled by the arm).


For such a simplified capsule (versus Orion) would development be
considerably simpler/faster/cheaper ? Or would it come close to
complexity ?

If you're going to de-orbit within 1 or 2 orbits and land in (any)
water, does it need a fancy ECLSS system, or could it just have
compressed air supplied to masks ?

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
How long would it take to develop a station escape pod that was launched
from the Shuttle ?

Probably some capsule with either APAS or CBM berthing. It would need
some manoeuvering thrusters and a de-orbit engine, and then the standard
capsule re-entry stuff (shield, parachutes, lifeboat etc). Landing in
water would be acceptable for this.

You're probably thinking of the Apollo CM. If it could be built now (no
machinery used to build it still exists; the techniques used are obsolete
and the people who built it are either retired or have died).

However, the CSM would fit inside the payload bay of the shuttle (Skylab's
CSM's were about 18 tonnes all-up, 3.9m diameter), but the CSM, with one
exception (the modified unit for Skylab rescue) was only capable of holding
three people - you'd need two CSM's for every station crew.

Mind you, the rescue CSM could be used for all six, with the space in the
SLA used for a combination docking mechanism (ala Apollo/Soyuz) and extra
cabin module space. Even the entire SLA could be occupied by an additional
module to provide the crew with room for a toilet and additional supplies.
However, docking with the station while that thing is on the nose of the CSM
would be tough; it could be done if the module were built similar to the
Gemini Ferry concept.

On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 03:18:50 -0400, John Doe wrote:

How long would it take to develop a station escape pod that was launched
from the Shuttle ?

We got pretty far along in developing one at the turn of the century,
but it was cancelled.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/n...-038-DFRC.html

If we reconstituted the X-38 program, we could probably have it ready
in 3-4 years. I'm not sure that's much faster than we could have
Orion, if we accelerated Orion and put it on Delta IV-Heavy.

Brian

Brian Thorn wrote:

If we reconstituted the X-38 program, we could probably have it ready
in 3-4 years. I'm not sure that's much faster than we could have
Orion, if we accelerated Orion and put it on Delta IV-Heavy.

In terms of how long an escape pod could stay at the station, does it
make a big difference if the ship got to the station on its own power
and then parked there versus one that is brought by shuttle still in its
shrinkwrapped package, brand spanking new and unused to the station ?

As I recall, for Soyuz, the timer starts when they start to use the
engines/thrusters.

"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 03:18:50 -0400, John Doe wrote:

How long would it take to develop a station escape pod that was launched
from the Shuttle ?

We got pretty far along in developing one at the turn of the century,
but it was cancelled.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/n...-038-DFRC.html

If we reconstituted the X-38 program, we could probably have it ready
in 3-4 years. I'm not sure that's much faster than we could have
Orion, if we accelerated Orion and put it on Delta IV-Heavy.

I agree.



Brian



--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

"John Doe" wrote in message
...
Brian Thorn wrote:

If we reconstituted the X-38 program, we could probably have it ready
in 3-4 years. I'm not sure that's much faster than we could have
Orion, if we accelerated Orion and put it on Delta IV-Heavy.

In terms of how long an escape pod could stay at the station, does it
make a big difference if the ship got to the station on its own power
and then parked there versus one that is brought by shuttle still in its
shrinkwrapped package, brand spanking new and unused to the station ?


There's probably a lot of arguments to be made for parking one there rather
than launching one there.

The Soyuz thruster issue is a good example of that.

There are also as I recall some batteries that do better when only used one
which would probably be useful for a single use craft.


As I recall, for Soyuz, the timer starts when they start to use the
engines/thrusters.



--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...
If we reconstituted the X-38 program, we could probably have it ready
in 3-4 years. I'm not sure that's much faster than we could have
Orion, if we accelerated Orion and put it on Delta IV-Heavy.

What makes you think they could build the X-38 any faster? There's still
all the sub-systems to be developed (power, ECS etc). Admittedly, the
systems would be much simpler on X-38, but they have to be designed, tested
and built; systems for human-capable spacecraft can't be taken from a shelf,
unlike those for some automated spacecraft.

Alan Erskine wrote:

What makes you think they could build the X-38 any faster? There's still
all the sub-systems to be developed (power, ECS etc). Admittedly, the
systems would be much simpler on X-38, but they have to be designed, tested
and built; systems for human-capable spacecraft can't be taken from a shelf,
unlike those for some automated spacecraft.


How much of systems do they REALLY need for an emergency escape pod ?

If this is to be used in an emergency only, then there is no need to
support life for more than a few hours.

If there is to be a huge cosmic storm, the escape pod needs to de-orbit
ASAP and land anywhere in an ocean. No need to support life in vacuum
for long. A simple water-landing capsule is faster to get back in the
protection of atmosphere than some ship that requires landing on a
runway/desert.

If there is a medical emergency, no matter the type of craft used, they
need to be aligned to the right orbit before de-orbiting. They might as
well wait in station and use the escape pod for a short period and
de-orbit quickly instead of spending a day in some escape pod where
medical equipment would be less. OR, they can de-orbit ASAP and target
any ocean near some coast and wait for ship/helicopter to rescue them.

If a module on station explodes, then it has interesting implications.

If you have a pod attached to node 2 and a pod attched to node 1, and
destiny is blown up, and you have 5 people on the russian side and on on
the node 2 side, then you'd need to either move the node2 pod to node1
with the one guy in it so he can pick up 2 more, or mode 2 person
trhough destiny so they can then board the pod on node 2.


So this might require an escape pod being able to undock and re-dock
elsewhere on station without relying on the station arm (since it could
be disabled).


The X38 was a neat vehicle, but it was an excuse to play with new
technologies. If NASA were to define the exact bare minimum requirements
for an escape pod so t could allow greater crew size, it wouldn't need
that many fancy features, it would just need a minimalist vehicle that
can bring someone back to earth's surface.

The big question is whether NASA/USA would be willing to rely on Soyuz
for orbital manoeuvers which would allow an even more basic escape pod.
Soyuz has airlock capabilities to pick someone up from space, and has
docking capabilities to the russian segment (but not to us segment).

Alan Erskine wrote:
"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
...
If we reconstituted the X-38 program, we could probably have it ready
in 3-4 years. I'm not sure that's much faster than we could have
Orion, if we accelerated Orion and put it on Delta IV-Heavy.

What makes you think they could build the X-38 any faster?

What makes you think that's what he said? Note that he said "I'm NOT
sure..." (emphasis mine).