The future of electric cars

On Thursday, 16 June 2016 16:59:14 UTC-4, FredKartoffel wrote:
VW is planning to sell 20% of their vehicles as pure electrics by 2020. Here is one from their Porsche brand:
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uplo...00x395x1_5.jpg

Will they lie about the mileage too?

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 6:14:04 PM UTC-5, RichA wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2016 16:59:14 UTC-4, FredKartoffel wrote:
VW is planning to sell 20% of their vehicles as pure electrics by 2020. Here is one from their Porsche brand:
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uplo...00x395x1_5.jpg

Will they lie about the mileage too?

Yes, all the electric car manufacturers lie about mileage. In real world driving you always get somewhat less than they can get under ideal conditions.. Same is true of gas vehicles. The word is YMMV. I'm happy to get 80 - 90% of what is claimed and really don't expect more.

The vehicle that surprised me most was the Volt, which gets more than advertised in spring, summer and fall, but winter is not so good.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:46:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 6:31:40 PM UTC-4, FredKartoffel wrote:
On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 5:18:28 PM UTC-5, peterson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 14:52:26 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote:

(Besides, peterson doesn't NEED an SUV, he just WANTS an SUV.)

Peterson _needs_ an SUV-like vehicle- 4WD, high ground clearance, high
ceiling. You're not in a position to understand the driving needs of
others.

You forget, he's a dictator.

Actually, no. I believe in natural rights and individual freedoms, unlike you and peterson.

We just believe in rights and freedoms... rationally derived, and
therefore far more defensible than anything with a source that can't
be identified.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:51:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 6:38:32 PM UTC-4, peterson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:23:49 -0700 (PDT), wsnell01 wrote:

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 6:15:40 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 14:46:11 -0700 (PDT), FredKartoffel
wrote:

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 4:28:52 PM UTC-5, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 13:59:13 -0700 (PDT), FredKartoffel
wrote:

VW is planning to sell 20% of their vehicles as pure electrics by 2020. Here is one from their Porsche brand:
http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uplo...00x395x1_5.jpg

I'm just hoping for a good electric or plug-in hybrid 4WD/AWD SUV or
crossover before I need a new car. That Porsche is pretty, but I don't
think it's going to cut it on my roads (or even my driveway)!

SUVs are coming. Tesla has one in the works. VW has some 20 models, this is just one, there are others in SUV sizes.

Yeah, I know it won't be too long. But I have 300,000 miles on my
current vehicle. It's not going to keep on forever.

Then move to Denver, where everything is (or can be) within walking distance for you.

I don't want to live in Denver.

I don't blame you. How about NYC? They have good mass transit there.

I don't want to live anyplace that requires mass transit.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 16:00:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 6:40:23 PM UTC-4, peterson wrote:

Mine's a 1993. Definitely have gotten my money's worth. Luckily, I'm
never on road salt, and the climate here is dry. So there's no rust at
all. Still runs well, but... something will eventually go, and it
probably won't be economical to repair it.

You can probably get your dogs into this:

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/search...=GN_REFINEMENT

Not such great mileage but better than what you have now.

Not suitable for my location.

Chris L Peterson:
Yeah, I know it won't be too long. But I have 300,000 miles on my
current vehicle. It's not going to keep on forever.

Subaru, maybe? My late friends in Prescott, Arizona, had an old Subaru
that went mostly off road (desert and mountain wildlife photography and
videography) for more than 500,000 miles without a single major repair.
Indeed, it outlasted my dear friends. That, in part, led me to buy a
2014 Forester 2.0 Turbo three years ago. Excellent car. Took it in for
routine service and people were talking about their mileage. 460,000,
380,000, and the like. Me? 15,000 after three calendar years. O, the
shame.

The Subaru was a nice car, but it had some features I didn't like,
including some poor finish inside, lack of creature comforts, the worst
nav system I have ever seen
https://www.flickr.com/photos/primeval/8893582696, and a rear-view
camera that used a separate, poorly located, and tiny screen--also
useless. Two weeks ago I traded the Subaru for a 2016 Lexus RX 350 AWD.
Slightly less cargo space, but more than adequate to my needs (camera
gear, mostly, as I rarely haul large telescopes around) and more
passenger space. Not to mention its uncluttered 12.3 in. nav display,
Apple Siri, and other effective hands-and-eyes-free voice control of
navigation, climate, audio sources, etc. Downside compared to the
Subaru: rear visibility through the windows is poor on the Lexus.
Whether the Lexus would handle your mountain I do not know, but it has
already acquitted itself well on a rarely traveled trail (rocks and
roots) in the hills of Bedford County, Pennsylvania. Good enough for
what it's for.

FredKartoffel:
That's a lot of miles. I tend to keep my vehicles for 15 years, after that
they tend to nickel and dime. Recently took my oldest vehicle (100k miles)
for brake work and it ended up costing more than $2100.00 Lots of rust and
corrosion due to road salt.

OK, got my calculator out. $2100 is approximately $35,900 cheaper than
the cost of a nicely equipped new SUV. Sounds like you made a wise
choice. A friend of mine had to buy a new car because his 20-y.o. car
failed state inspection--so much rust they said it was in danger of
breaking in two. I was in a taxi in Bangkok that split in two parts,
front and rear, while making a turn. It had been made from the "good"
parts of two wrecked cars welded together, after a fashion.

As for electric cars (I have a 10-y.o. Prius, going strong, still
getting the promised 45 mpg, often better), I am skeptical. IMO
all-electric cars will be a niche commuter vehicle until one can run
500 miles @ 70-75 mph before requiring a recharge. I don't see that
happening soon.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

FredKartoffel:
Real conservatives are kind, caring persons who are most educated
and can carry on an intelligent conversation without vindictiveness.

Granted. But that conversation quickly turns boring, as there are
probably only two such conservatives in the USA and they've already
said everything to each other that they need to say. Like Maryland GOP
Governor Larry Hogan, who said "I'm not going to vote for Trump."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

FredKartoffel:

Yes, all the electric car manufacturers lie about mileage. In real world
driving you always get somewhat less than they can get under ideal
conditions. Same is true of gas vehicles. The word is YMMV. I'm happy to get
80 - 90% of what is claimed and really don't expect more.

The vehicle that surprised me most was the Volt, which gets more than
advertised in spring, summer and fall, but winter is not so good.

Ditto the hybrids in winter, when battery efficiency is down. But
Toyota didn't lie about the mileage; 10 years ago they said 45mpg
overall and I get maybe 42 in the coldest of weather but up to 47-48
the rest of the year. I do suburban driving, the worst of all for these
cars, because one is constantly accelerating to 40 or 45 mph before
stopping again soon. In city traffic, where I rarely drive, one creeps
up to maybe 10-20 mph before the next light and fuel economy soars.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:04:47 -0400, Davoud wrote:

Chris L Peterson:
Yeah, I know it won't be too long. But I have 300,000 miles on my
current vehicle. It's not going to keep on forever.

Subaru, maybe? My late friends in Prescott, Arizona, had an old Subaru
that went mostly off road (desert and mountain wildlife photography and
videography) for more than 500,000 miles without a single major repair.
Indeed, it outlasted my dear friends. That, in part, led me to buy a
2014 Forester 2.0 Turbo three years ago. Excellent car. Took it in for
routine service and people were talking about their mileage. 460,000,
380,000, and the like. Me? 15,000 after three calendar years. O, the
shame.

It's a Ford Explorer. But if we get something new, an Outback or a
Forester are definite possibilities. Nicer, but pricier, a Highlander.
Don't need hardcore off-road- I've got a 1973 CJ-5 for that. Just
something that can handle rutted dirt and gravel, sometimes muddy,
sometimes snowy, as well as snowy and icy roads for much of the year.
Basically, 4WD and decent ground clearance, and a design more suited
to dogs or cargo than passengers.

As for electric cars (I have a 10-y.o. Prius, going strong, still
getting the promised 45 mpg, often better), I am skeptical. IMO
all-electric cars will be a niche commuter vehicle until one can run
500 miles @ 70-75 mph before requiring a recharge. I don't see that
happening soon.

I do. Or at least, I see 200-250 mile range being standard, and the
ability to take at least a 50% charge in 10 or 20 minutes. That may be
a niche, but I think it's going to be a large one. Still need better
hybrids, as well. The Prius design is really poor, with internal
combustion power directed to the wheels. A proper hybrid is an
electric car with a supplementary internal combustion engine to
produce electricity when necessary. I'd like my next car to either be
that, or pure electric (which would suit my needs even with the
current range limitations).

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 8:04:50 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Chris L Peterson:

As for electric cars (I have a 10-y.o. Prius, going strong, still
getting the promised 45 mpg, often better), I am skeptical. IMO
all-electric cars will be a niche commuter vehicle until one can run
500 miles @ 70-75 mph before requiring a recharge. I don't see that
happening soon.

Friends of ours just made a decision between a Volt and a Prius. The Volt has more room for stuff in the back and handles much better. Both get great gas mileage on long trips. In the end it came down to whether or not they could attach a bicycle rack on the back - the Prius no problem, the Volt a bit of a challenge. So it was the Prius. I got to ride in it last week on our annual trip to Ravinia music festival. I was impressed to say the least. Mileage was just north of 60mpg, so that makes for 240mpg per person (4 of us). It was a nice riding car and comfortable for 4 adults. Way to go Toyota! By the way, their other car is a Subaru off-road model - not sure the model. They will probably keep that for a long long time.