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  #1  
Old December 19th 17, 08:53 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
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Posts: 132
Default One easy question

What the hell is wrong with you?

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #2  
Old December 19th 17, 09:01 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default One easy question

It is the easiest possible question to ask and answer -

If daily rotation which causes the day/night cycle ceased to exist, would a person on the surface still experience a single day/night cycle each year ?.

The answer is Yes, they would experience the same day/night cycle that currently happens at the North and South poles where the Sun comes into view on one Equinox, stays in view constantly for 6 months until the opposite Equinox when it goes out of view for another 6 months.

This surface rotation is parallel to the orbital plane and Copernicus, in his original Commentariolus, got it right -

"The third is the motion in declination. For, the axis of the daily rotation is not parallel to the Grand Orb's axis, but is inclined [to it at an angle that intercepts] a portion of a circumference, in our time about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the earth's center always remains in the plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of a circle of the Grand Orb, the earth's poles rotate, both of them describing small circles about centers [lying on a line that moves] parallel to the Grand Orb's axis. The period of this motion also is a year, but not quite, being nearly equal to the Grand Orb's [revolution]." Copernicus

http://copernicus.torun.pl/en/archiv...=transkrypcja&

Oh the satisfaction in being able to restore part of that astronomer's work by allowing the older framework for timekeeping to emerge and displacing the Greek system of reckoning that Copernicus and his contemporaries were chained to.



  #3  
Old December 19th 17, 11:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default One easy question

Gerald Kelleher wrote:
It is the easiest possible question to ask and answer -

If daily rotation which causes the day/night cycle ceased to exist, would
a person on the surface still experience a single day/night cycle each year ?.

The answer is Yes, they would experience the same day/night cycle that
currently happens at the North and South poles where the Sun comes into
view on one Equinox, stays in view constantly for 6 months until the
opposite Equinox when it goes out of view for another 6 months.

This surface rotation is parallel to the orbital plane and Copernicus, in
his original Commentariolus, got it right -

"The third is the motion in declination. For, the axis of the daily
rotation is not parallel to the Grand Orb's axis, but is inclined [to it
at an angle that intercepts] a portion of a circumference, in our time
about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the earth's center always remains in the
plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of a circle of the
Grand Orb, the earth's poles rotate, both of them describing small
circles about centers [lying on a line that moves] parallel to the Grand
Orb's axis. The period of this motion also is a year, but not quite,
being nearly equal to the Grand Orb's [revolution]." Copernicus

http://copernicus.torun.pl/en/archiv...=transkrypcja&

Oh the satisfaction in being able to restore part of that astronomer's
work by allowing the older framework for timekeeping to emerge and
displacing the Greek system of reckoning that Copernicus and his
contemporaries were chained to.





Congratulations! You’ve finally figured it out.There will be no solar days
in the year due to rotation and one day due to the orbit of Earth round the
Sun. Work it out.That means there is one extra day in the year. 0 plus 1 =
1

365 plus one equals 366.


  #4  
Old December 20th 17, 07:29 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
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Posts: 306
Default One easy question

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 8:01:30 PM UTC, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
For, the axis of the daily rotation is not parallel to the Grand Orb's axis, but is inclined [to it at an angle that intercepts] a portion of a circumference, in our time about 23 1/2°.


Indeed, one could say that it is "tilted".

If one were not barking mad.
  #5  
Old December 20th 17, 08:29 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default One easy question

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 10:55:22 PM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:
It is the easiest possible question to ask and answer -

If daily rotation which causes the day/night cycle ceased to exist, would
a person on the surface still experience a single day/night cycle each year ?.

The answer is Yes, they would experience the same day/night cycle that
currently happens at the North and South poles where the Sun comes into
view on one Equinox, stays in view constantly for 6 months until the
opposite Equinox when it goes out of view for another 6 months.

This surface rotation is parallel to the orbital plane and Copernicus, in
his original Commentariolus, got it right -

"The third is the motion in declination. For, the axis of the daily
rotation is not parallel to the Grand Orb's axis, but is inclined [to it
at an angle that intercepts] a portion of a circumference, in our time
about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the earth's center always remains in the
plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of a circle of the
Grand Orb, the earth's poles rotate, both of them describing small
circles about centers [lying on a line that moves] parallel to the Grand
Orb's axis. The period of this motion also is a year, but not quite,
being nearly equal to the Grand Orb's [revolution]." Copernicus

http://copernicus.torun.pl/en/archiv...=transkrypcja&

Oh the satisfaction in being able to restore part of that astronomer's
work by allowing the older framework for timekeeping to emerge and
displacing the Greek system of reckoning that Copernicus and his
contemporaries were chained to.





Congratulations! You’ve finally figured it out.There will be no solar days
in the year due to rotation and one day due to the orbit of Earth round the
Sun. Work it out.That means there is one extra day in the year. 0 plus 1 =
1

365 plus one equals 366.


The Solstice is the day of two distinct types of noon, the normal noon experienced by all people on the planet as their location is midway to the circle of illumination and polar noon where the North and South poles occupy the same position midway to the circle of illumination twice each year of the Solstices -

https://epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/


Jump up and down or scream, it means nothing to me, I shrug and appreciate that in the absence of daily rotation, all locations on the planet would still experience a single day/night cycle as a function of the orbital motion of the planet.

You should show your grandchildren using a simple analogy of a broom and walking around an object how all sides of your body/ planet turn once to the Sun by using orientation properly -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYy0EQBnqHI

Maybe then take them to Christmas carols and the inspirational buzz around Christmas and the Solstice.





  #6  
Old December 21st 17, 05:16 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default One easy question

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:53:11 PM UTC-7, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
What the hell is wrong with you?


Although I certainly can't speak for him, I should note for your benefit as I
have before that he *has* a point (of sorts, even if he's taken it much too
far).

When I was in junior high school, astronomers still believed that one side of
Mercury always faced the Sun, the same way that one side of the Moon always
faces the Earth.

My science textbook had a little table in it of Solar System facts. For each of
the planets in the Solar System, it included things like the diameter of the
planet and the radius of its orbit.

One of the facts included was the length of day for each planet.

Bizarrely enough, though, it gave the length of the day for the planet Earth
as...

23 hours and 56 minutes.

Not 24 hours. What?

I remember working it out. At four minutes a day, in 15 days all our clocks and
watches would be out of sync with the day by a whole hour.

Oh, and the length of day for Mercury was 88 days, not "infinity" or "forever".

So the row was *mislabeled*. It wasn't the *length of the day* for the different
planets, it was their... sidereal rotational period. Sometimes it's called the
"sidereal day", because that's a simple, friendly term.

But it isn't "the length of the day". It isn't how long the cycle of daytime,
when the sun is up and everything is bright, and nighttime, when things are
dark, takes.

So I found this annoying. I think it's important that we keep straight the
difference between the day and night cycle, which is important in our normal
lives, and the physical rotational period of the planet we live on.

The way I see it, Oriel36 has perhaps reacted to the same thing - *but*, in his
case, he fails to realize, perhaps because of a lack of mathematical
sophistication, that the "sidereal day", however remote it may be from our daily
lives, is still significant. If you're going to work with the Earth's rotation
mathematically, you need to disentangle it from the Earth's orbital motion
(which isn't a perfect circle, and furthermore is in a plane inclined to the
equator).

He doesn't care about this kind of stuff, and furthermore goes around claiming
that Newton's notion that the planets are kept in their orbits by gravity -
obeying the same laws of inertia and angular momentum as a child's top or a
tennis ball - is a myth.

He's just not into science.

John Savard
  #7  
Old December 21st 17, 01:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default One easy question

For teachers or interested adults who wish to show students or their kids the existence of the polar day/night cycle and the surface rotation behind it, it only takes a broom and walking around an object representing the Sun to imitate the orbital motion of the Earth minus daily rotation.

At the North and South poles there is only one sunrise, noon, sunset and midnight each year with dawn and twilight around the Equinoxes lasting constantly for weeks on end. Like the weekday day/night cycle ( sunrise, noon, sunset, midnight) there is a surface rotation behind it but the polar day/cycle rotation comes from a different source.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYy0EQBnqHI

The time lapse above shows that the Earth keeps the same daily rotational orientation to the stars so the teacher points the broom handle at the same external point as they walk around the object imitating the Earth’s orbital motion of the Sun. They will soon discover that they have to walk forward, then sideways and then backwards before returning to a forward motion when completing the circuit. At one time or another, all parts of their body faces the central object imitating the Earth’s surface which also turns its entire surface very slowly to the Sun arising from its orbital motion.

There will be lots of attempted explanations out there about the Earth tilted towards the Sun or even the New York Times today which has the circle of illumination pivoting off the Equator via NASA's apod website but the Solstice is an amazing astronomical and planetary event which highlights the planet's two distinct day/night cycles.

  #8  
Old December 21st 17, 04:56 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
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Posts: 132
Default One easy question

Quadibloc wrote in
:

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:53:11 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
What the hell is wrong with you?


Although I certainly can't speak for him, I should note for your
benefit as I have before that he *has* a point (of sorts, even
if he's taken it much too far).


His only point seems to be a cry for help because he's really not
right in the head.

And you're hardly in a position to be defending *anyone's* connection
to reality.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #9  
Old December 21st 17, 06:50 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy[_2_]
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Posts: 132
Default One easy question

"Chris.B" wrote in
:

On Thursday, 21 December 2017 17:56:19 UTC+1, Gutless Umbrella
Carrying Sissy wrote:
Quadibloc wrote in
:

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:53:11 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
What the hell is wrong with you?

Although I certainly can't speak for him, I should note for
your benefit as I have before that he *has* a point (of
sorts, even if he's taken it much too far).


His only point seems to be a cry for help because he's really
not right in the head.

And you're hardly in a position to be defending *anyone's*
connection to reality.


Facebook is dropping its "fake news" banner.


Suprising exactly no one.

Incoherent dribble snipped because electron lives matter, too.)

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

  #10  
Old December 21st 17, 07:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Posts: 1,001
Default One easy question

On Thursday, 21 December 2017 17:56:19 UTC+1, Gutless Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
Quadibloc wrote in
:

On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 1:53:11 PM UTC-7, Gutless
Umbrella Carrying Sissy wrote:
What the hell is wrong with you?


Although I certainly can't speak for him, I should note for your
benefit as I have before that he *has* a point (of sorts, even
if he's taken it much too far).


His only point seems to be a cry for help because he's really not
right in the head.

And you're hardly in a position to be defending *anyone's* connection
to reality.


Facebook is dropping its "fake news" banner.
It seems that shaming the ignorant merely hardens their attachment to non-sense and their own false reality.
The unsuccessful are always the least critical of their own shortcomings.
The internet has become the bastion of far too many false generalizations and labels.
Any Tom, Dick and Mary can say what they like. More or less.
Once "published" online their non-sense gains personal momentum.
YouTube comments are a case in point.
The completely opposite interpretations and rigid auto-responses offer no way forwards.

The internet has largely become the mouthpiece for bigotry and tolerance alike.
But the bigots are not weakened by cold argument or logical argument.
They are emboldened by the attention.
Suddenly their bizarre views are receiving the oxygen of publicity.
For the first time they have a voice which can be heard.
They are deaf to the derision because it is so easy to filter it out.

The "unique viewpoint holder" simply does not read the critical responses.
Their delusions continue to be reinforced by auto-dehumanizing their critics to a lower life form.
The Nazis and The Jews. Pinko Lefties and Fascists. Hippy tree hugging warmingistas.
Sociopathic economist policies from the right. Cabals and the hidden agenda..
Brutal Cynicism rules the roost online for its own sake.
Countless YouTube videos talking pure excrement and they enjoy a bilge-like following beyond all understanding.

1461 really needs his own YouTube channel.
He needs to sit and stare at a camera and talk his utter bølløcks to his fan base.
Just as he does here and probably elsewhere.
He will [probably] enjoy a huge following from the drooling, educationally challenged masses because they have learned not to trust authority.

Authority is the bent cop, the pervert priest and the retarded, psychopathic, billionaire clown in the White House.
Authority is hearing the same, damned, bad news, with a slightly different twist, every hour of every day of your life.

Authority stops you being somebody unless you exceed the worst aspects of the news and spill innocent blood for your moment of fame.
The Cynic in me believes that we have not been visited by aliens for one, very good reason:
On the far side of the Moon, written in letters hundreds of miles high, it says:
HELL ON EARTH AHEAD: ABANDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE! ;-)
 




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