A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Policy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Commercial Crew



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 24th 19, 08:46 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default Commercial Crew

NASA has reportedly updated its launch dates for Commercial Crew
missions. The Starliner unmanned orbital test is now manifested for
September (the original holdup was apparently largely due to launch
vehicle availability). Both Starliner and Crew Dragon are currently
manifested for manned flights in November (Crew Dragon first), which
would seem to imply that the Crew Dragon Max Q Abort Test would happen
sometime before that, although we still have no date for that and no
new information on what caused the test pad anomaly.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
Ads
  #2  
Old June 24th 19, 04:51 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Alain Fournier[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 370
Default Commercial Crew

On Jun/24/2019 at 03:46, Fred J. McCall wrote :
NASA has reportedly updated its launch dates for Commercial Crew
missions. The Starliner unmanned orbital test is now manifested for
September (the original holdup was apparently largely due to launch
vehicle availability). Both Starliner and Crew Dragon are currently
manifested for manned flights in November (Crew Dragon first), which
would seem to imply that the Crew Dragon Max Q Abort Test would happen
sometime before that, although we still have no date for that and no
new information on what caused the test pad anomaly.


Thanks for the info. Do you have a cite for where you got that?


Alain Fournier

  #3  
Old June 24th 19, 07:00 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default Commercial Crew

Alain Fournier wrote on Mon, 24 Jun 2019
11:51:05 -0400:

On Jun/24/2019 at 03:46, Fred J. McCall wrote :
NASA has reportedly updated its launch dates for Commercial Crew
missions. The Starliner unmanned orbital test is now manifested for
September (the original holdup was apparently largely due to launch
vehicle availability). Both Starliner and Crew Dragon are currently
manifested for manned flights in November (Crew Dragon first), which
would seem to imply that the Crew Dragon Max Q Abort Test would happen
sometime before that, although we still have no date for that and no
new information on what caused the test pad anomaly.


Thanks for the info. Do you have a cite for where you got that?


The latest Ars Technica Rocket Report, which gave NASASpaceFlight.com
as their source.

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2019...-launch-dates/


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
  #4  
Old June 25th 19, 01:45 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,550
Default Commercial Crew

On 6/24/2019 3:46 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
NASA has reportedly updated its launch dates for Commercial Crew
missions. The Starliner unmanned orbital test is now manifested for
September (the original holdup was apparently largely due to launch
vehicle availability). Both Starliner and Crew Dragon are currently
manifested for manned flights in November (Crew Dragon first), which
would seem to imply that the Crew Dragon Max Q Abort Test would happen
sometime before that, although we still have no date for that and no
new information on what caused the test pad anomaly.


I am skeptical of the Crew Dragon dates until I hear more about results
of the accident investigation, remediation steps, NASA buy-in and
sign-off etc.

Seems to me SpaceX has an uphill climb. It wouldn't surprise me if
Starliner goes first in both at this point.

Dave


  #5  
Old June 25th 19, 02:42 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default Commercial Crew

David Spain wrote on Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:45:30
-0400:

On 6/24/2019 3:46 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
NASA has reportedly updated its launch dates for Commercial Crew
missions. The Starliner unmanned orbital test is now manifested for
September (the original holdup was apparently largely due to launch
vehicle availability). Both Starliner and Crew Dragon are currently
manifested for manned flights in November (Crew Dragon first), which
would seem to imply that the Crew Dragon Max Q Abort Test would happen
sometime before that, although we still have no date for that and no
new information on what caused the test pad anomaly.


I am skeptical of the Crew Dragon dates until I hear more about results
of the accident investigation, remediation steps, NASA buy-in and
sign-off etc.

Seems to me SpaceX has an uphill climb. It wouldn't surprise me if
Starliner goes first in both at this point.


Gonna take some time travel for Starliner to go first on the unmanned
orbital test, since Crew Dragon did that months ago.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
  #6  
Old June 25th 19, 04:42 PM posted to sci.space.policy
David Spain
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,550
Default Commercial Crew

On 6/25/2019 9:42 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote:

Gonna take some time travel for Starliner to go first on the unmanned
orbital test, since Crew Dragon did that months ago.


Sorry should have read that more closely. Yes that's right.

Dave

  #7  
Old June 25th 19, 08:51 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 653
Default Commercial Crew

"JF Mezei" wrote in message ...

Dragon had a failure in a critical system which prevents the test of
this critical system (abort in flight).

Starliner hasn't had any failures because it is behind and hasn't even
had unmanned test.

Assuming SpaceX has found the cause and knows how to fix it, Dragon
could be back in business and still be quite ahead. SpaceX appears have
a new policy of not letting Musk say much, so I don't know that one can
derive a conclusion from lack of news.


When Boeing starts its tests, it could work flawlessly or not. We have
to wait. Will they also have a max-Q abort test? That would seem to
require at least 2 test flights right?


I have not seen a max-Q abort test for Starliner planned. I may have missed
it, but I don't think so.
I think NASA is still treating Boeing as "they've done this before, we can
trust them a bit more."
And perhaps after the recent SpaceX explosion, they might be right.



--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
IT Disaster Response -
https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Resp...dp/1484221834/

  #8  
Old June 25th 19, 08:52 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 653
Default Commercial Crew

"David Spain" wrote in message ...

On 6/24/2019 3:46 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
NASA has reportedly updated its launch dates for Commercial Crew
missions. The Starliner unmanned orbital test is now manifested for
September (the original holdup was apparently largely due to launch
vehicle availability). Both Starliner and Crew Dragon are currently
manifested for manned flights in November (Crew Dragon first), which
would seem to imply that the Crew Dragon Max Q Abort Test would happen
sometime before that, although we still have no date for that and no
new information on what caused the test pad anomaly.


I am skeptical of the Crew Dragon dates until I hear more about results of
the accident investigation, remediation steps, NASA buy-in and sign-off
etc.

Seems to me SpaceX has an uphill climb. It wouldn't surprise me if
Starliner goes first in both at this point.


I think a LOT depends on what the result of the Crew Dragon failure analysis
comes down to.

And in their defense, they've at least flown actual hardware. Starliner
still hasn't.

And given the costs and launch vehicle availability, SpaceX can afford to do
more testing, sooner if they have to.
s
Dave


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
IT Disaster Response -
https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Resp...dp/1484221834/

  #9  
Old June 26th 19, 09:18 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default Commercial Crew

JF Mezei wrote on Tue, 25 Jun 2019
12:59:24 -0400:

Dragon had a failure in a critical system which prevents the test of
this critical system (abort in flight).


Thank you, Captain Obvious.


Starliner hasn't had any failures because it is behind and hasn't even
had unmanned test.


Not true. In point of fact, Starliner had a long hiatus in testing
because a ground test of their abort motor had an anomaly that
required some redesign.


Assuming SpaceX has found the cause and knows how to fix it, Dragon
could be back in business and still be quite ahead.


I don't think you can make that assumption.


SpaceX appears have
a new policy of not letting Musk say much, so I don't know that one can
derive a conclusion from lack of news.


Evidence for this "new policy"? I think in this case a lack of
statements says exactly what it seems to say; they don't have a
definitive answer yet.


When Boeing starts its tests, it could work flawlessly or not. We have
to wait. Will they also have a max-Q abort test? That would seem to
require at least 2 test flights right?


From what I can tell, Boeing doesn't plan a Max-Q abort test. Instead,
it looks like they're going to 'certify' based on ground testing of
'flight-like' test articles. I'm also not sure that a Max-Q test is
required prior to experimental manned flight. It's only required to
demonstrate the "full envelope abort" capability required by the
contract prior to first 'operational' flight.


--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world."
-- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden
  #10  
Old June 26th 19, 09:43 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default Commercial Crew

"Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote on Tue,
25 Jun 2019 15:51:12 -0400:

"JF Mezei" wrote in message ...

Dragon had a failure in a critical system which prevents the test of
this critical system (abort in flight).

Starliner hasn't had any failures because it is behind and hasn't even
had unmanned test.

Assuming SpaceX has found the cause and knows how to fix it, Dragon
could be back in business and still be quite ahead. SpaceX appears have
a new policy of not letting Musk say much, so I don't know that one can
derive a conclusion from lack of news.


When Boeing starts its tests, it could work flawlessly or not. We have
to wait. Will they also have a max-Q abort test? That would seem to
require at least 2 test flights right?


I have not seen a max-Q abort test for Starliner planned. I may have missed
it, but I don't think so.
I think NASA is still treating Boeing as "they've done this before, we can
trust them a bit more."
And perhaps after the recent SpaceX explosion, they might be right.


I tend to put it more down to relative cost of the two boosters. I
suspect it was SpaceX's choice to do a 'live test' for a Max-Q abort.


--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world."
-- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bought Senators claim 'commercial crew sucks' Anonymous[_14_] Policy 7 March 14th 12 12:19 AM
Commercial Crew: The Perception Problem Matt Wiser[_2_] History 9 September 29th 10 01:06 PM
Commercial Crew Flight by 2015? Space Cadet[_1_] Policy 2 May 14th 10 11:54 PM
Commercial launch of cargo but not crew [email protected] Space Station 1 August 15th 09 09:40 AM
NASA ESTABLISHES COMMERCIAL CREW/CARGO PROJECT OFFICE Jacques van Oene Space Shuttle 4 November 9th 05 06:58 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.