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Augustine Commission Summary Report Available
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message one... j0nathan wrote: That's all wrong, they are concretions, not impact ejecta. You have just ended up in a area where your interpretation of the "Blueberries" is exactly what NASA would _dream_ of being the case, as it would greatly up their Mars exploration budget if that could be shown to be the situation...by greatly increasing the odds of past or present life on Mars. Was I just trolled? That's ok.The blueberries are the reason I came here to begin with. The debate is pretty much settled that they are concretions. However, there's still two camps on whether they are the result of completely abiotic processes, or if some kind of microbial activity contributed to their formation. It's clear they're simple mineral concretions however, almost entirely silicon and the kind of iron deposited in wet conditions. I've been very pro-life of course, and still convinced they show a level of order simple geology and chemistry can't fully explain. I also...want....NASA to find evidence of life so the exploration of Mars would continue and even increase dramatically. So the logic breaks down; why would you argue _against_ a scientific finding that would benefit _your own funding_ if shown to be true? Well there is some conflict with my opinions. I can see why you say that. I'm impatient, I want those big 'answers' soon, and I think robotic missions can answer them and do so much much faster than manned missions. I think manned missions to the Moon are very counterproductive in getting NASA more support and funding, since they are hugely expensive, slow and starve the kind of space science I find more timely and exciting. Remember the kinds of Internet traffic the rovers first got? It was monstrous, the entire world clicked in and also wondered what the heck those blueberries are. They were, and still are, the first mysterious 'artifact' so to speak from the surface of another planet. Since I was a kid the idea of exploring another world, and walking upon a true mystery, one that no one can quite figure out, while also possibly leading to one of the more meaningful and timeless discoveries of all, is like the ultimate space science fantasy imo. I've seen most of the pictures and data from the Moon, it's just not a very interesting place. That's a pretty strange conspiracy theory to justify, somewhat like the CIA coming out one day and stating: "You know the JFK assassination? We were in that up to our necks...that's why we should be defunded and abolished ASAP." I want NASA to have a budget ten times it's current level. But for that to happen NASA has to offer something in return. More moon rocks isn't the answer, only dramatic solutions to equally pressing problems on Earth can justify more money. Which is why I go on and on about Space Solar Power. A gilded safari to the Moon is the way to destroy NASA. But let me throw out what I think is an ongoing mystery about those spheres. Go to this link again and compare the actual MER spheres on the left and the synthetic ones on the right. The two look astonishingly similar. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/2053.pdf Keeping in mind the surface of Mars is highly oxidizing, with wind storms and lots of UV, a harsh overall environment. If the current view of Mars geology is to be believed, the spheres on the left are two or three BILLION YEARS OLDER, then the synthetic spheres. I don't buy that, everything I see points to concretions which grow faster, and more recently, than abiotic processes can explain. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...nity_m014.html http://areo.info/mer/opportunity/183...5L7L7.jpg.html Look at how pristine they are, sitting out in the open air. For how long? When I look at the red color of the surface of Mars I see it as a result of a planet-wide banded iron formation like we would see here on Earth. Lots of thin layers of iron deposited on the surface as a by-product of microbial activity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banded_iron_formation And look at the pancake flat horizon at Meridiani in all directions. Only a body of water can create that horizon. And if Mars died several billion years ago, that's long enough for geology to remake that horizon. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2262L2M1.HTML Like it did at the ancient Spirit site. http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/galle...P2218R2M1.HTML IMHO! The water on Mars didn't mostly evaporate into space billions of years ago leaving a dead desert since the early days of it's formation The water went underground and is still mostly there. Mars has a complex orbit and must have similarly complex ..... ice ages. I think the best is yet to come with the discoveries on Mars, by far, and I want to know now, not in forty years when men finally get there. Keep in mind, the amount of knowledge concerning concretions was rather limited before Meridiani. When I first saw the blueberries I quickly scoured all the available papers on such things, and realized the science was very weak and full of holes, and I tried to take advantage of that hole to help spur whatever excitement I could. And to this day, several years later, the debate rages on....notice the date of this. "OVERVIEW OF IRON OXIDE CONCRETIONS AND IMPLICATIONS FOR MARS: CURRENT KNOWLEDGE AND GAPS. (2009) "Terrestrial studies of concretions have been strengthened from the NASA programs, with the study of "blueberries" in the Burns formation discovered by the Mars Exploration Rover (MER) Opportunity. Scientific interest on iron oxide concretions has increased from a point just a decade or two ago, when concretions were viewed simply as geologic "curiosities"." "The role of biomediation is still unclear, and while it seems very likely that bacteria played a role in terrestrial concretion formation, original organic matter it is not well preserved and is currently difficult to detect" http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2187.pdf Patrick Flatulence s |
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