"Nazis Run Our Space Program" -- Peace Activist Bruce Gag-Me

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...

For that matter, I dimly recall a little article published at the height
of the Vietnam War, which estimated how much it would cost to *bribe*
every last man, woman, and child in North Vietnam to stop fighting. I
think it was something like two months of the war budget...

The problem isn't the bribe. It's keeping them bribed.


--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |

In article , says...
In article ,
Pat Flannery wrote:
The Russians are probably still banging their heads on the wall for not
having figured this out; they opposed us ideologically, and
militarily... when all they had to do to beat us was to buy us.

Well, of course, the US *should* have been banging its collective head on
the wall over this for some time. There was no shortage of Communists in
the world who could have been bought out -- either collectively and
openly, with things like aid deals, or individually and privately, under
the table -- for a fraction of what it cost to fight them.

There was a time when it probably wouldn't have taken much to make Ho Chi
Minh an ally rather than an enemy, if the idiots in Washington had been
able to see beyond that awful C-word and treat it as a practical problem
rather than an ideological one.

For that matter, I dimly recall a little article published at the height
of the Vietnam War, which estimated how much it would cost to *bribe*
every last man, woman, and child in North Vietnam to stop fighting. I
think it was something like two months of the war budget...

Good point, Henry. In fact, shortly after 9/11, I heard an analysis by
someone who had been working in Afghanistan in the private sector for
more than five years (and who had worked there for CIA for ten years
before that), as to how America could most effectively go about uniting
the warlords and defeating the Islamic fundamentalists who had given aid
and support to bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

His conclusion? Buy them. Bribe the warlords and keep the bribes
coming. It seems that this is how the warlords of Afghanistan have done
business for hundreds and hundreds of years. (The fellow also suggested
that we *not* deploy a lot of female military personnel to the region,
since the Afghanis would lose respect for any nation, be it friend or
foe, who used women to fight their battles. Not something politically
correct to discuss a lot here at home, but a psychological factor that
really ought to have been considered, whether we think it's bull**** or
not.)

But getting back to bribes -- according to this guy, a relatively cheap
(a lot cheaper than the cost of the Afghani war) investment in across-
the-board bribes would have smoked bin Laden out in a month or two.
Refusing to follow this course of action, America always made sure that
there was *some* group or warlord out there who felt slighted and would
harbor bin Laden.

Instead of trying to understand the Afghanis and the ways in which we
could *effectively* get what we wanted out of them, we just went in like
a bunch of swaggering Texans, threatening to blow up anything that
didn't bark "Sir, Yes Sir!" back at us when we even whispered...

....*sigh*...

Don't get me wrong, there's a time and a place for swaggering. I just
think that, in rational analysis (and especially in the pure light of
hindsight), Afghanistan wasn't the place and late 2001 wasn't the time.

There are just times when a little bribery and subterfuge can accomplish
what bombs, guns and threats cannot. I mean, what's more likely to get
a manned Mars mission funded -- bribing Congress with pork barrel pieces
of the project, or going down and shooting everyone in JSC Bldg 30 and
threatening to blow up the building if we don't get a committment for
going to Mars?

Although... I gotta admit, the latter *does* have some emotional
appeal... *grin*... "Gimme Mars Direct NOW or FIDO buys it!" (As
visions of Spacedog Day Afternoon begin to whisper through the void, a
disheveled Al Pacino dancing up and down past Bldg 30's front doors,
chanting "Challenger, Challenger, Chanllenger...")

--

"The problem isn't that there are so | Doug Van Dorn
many fools; it's that lightning isn't |
distributed right." -Mark Twain

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 23:11:17 GMT, in a place far, far away,
(Henry Spencer) made the phosphor on my monitor
glow in such a way as to indicate that:


An example from the present time is particular applicable.
The US has been paying many millions of dollars in foreign
aid to Egypt in attepts to keep them "on our side". Has
it worked? Not particularly well...
...In effect, we have paid merely to maintain the
status quo.

Yes, and it worked, didn't it?

Not all of the hijackers came from Saudi-controlled Arabia...

Douglas Berry wrote:

:On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 15:19:18 GMT, Fred J. McCall
drained his beer, leaned back in the
:alt.conspiracy beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed the following
(Rand Simberg) wrote:
:
::On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:19:22 GMT, in a place far, far away, Douglas
::Berry made the phosphor on my
::monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:
:
::The standard headgear of the United States Army is the beret, moron.
::
::Yup. Instituted during the Clinton administration (by Shalikashvili,
::I believe) with much unhappiness from the Special Forces. The idea
::was to make everyone feel "special."
:
:And so now no one is. sigh
:
:Well, the Special Forces still have their green berets, airborne still
:wears maroon, and my beloved Rangers switched to a tan beret when the
:rest of the Army went to black. So certain units still have a
:distinctive look.
:
:To be honest, I don't mind the berets, as long as someone teaches the
:troops how to wear them. (Hint one: cut out the lining.) Anything is
:better than the overseas cap I had to wear when in non-Airborne units
aka the "**** cap")

Ah, you mean the 'garrison cap'.

(Derek Lyons) wrote:

:Herb Schaltegger wrote:
:
:In article ,
: Douglas Berry wrote:
:
: Anything is
: better than the overseas cap I had to wear when in non-Airborne units
: (aka the "**** cap")
:
:Please don't mess with my traditions. I still have mine (several, in
:fact) from my Air Force days.
:
:Worse yet is the move to replace the Dixie Cup (AKA crackerjack AKA
:sailors hat) with the dammed beret.

Crackerjacks are the whole dress uniform. It would look stupid with a
beret.

One hopes this will have about the same success as trying to do away
with dungarees.

--
"Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute."
-- Charles Pinckney

In article ,
Pat Flannery writes:


Dale wrote:

Hasn't the U.S. Army been wearing berets for quite some time now?

Berets- they aren't just for guys named "Marion" anymore



Marion Morrison wore one in the movie "The Green Berets", as you point out.
Of course, this guy wore one also:
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9710/17/cuba.che/che.large.jpg
You have to admit that Che had the revolutionary look nailed 100%; this
guy could have caused Jane Fonda to have multiple orgasms by simply
coming within a hundred miles of her.
(Cut to image of Jane writhing in ecstasy on a south Florida beach.) :-P

Che wa also a hopeless imcompetent. The way Batista ran things, a
talking dog could have taken over Cuba. After Che'd completely
screwed up the economy there, he was cut loose to "go spread
revolution around the World". He was hopelessly humiliated in the
Congo, and there's some debate about whether it was the CIA, the
Bolivian Army, or his own troops who killed him in Bolivia.
He was the Doug Neidermier of Guerilla Warfare.

--
Pete Stickney

Without data, all you have are opinions

Damon Hill wrote:

(Eric Chomko) wrote in
:
:
: Rand Simberg ) wrote:
:: On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 18:48:28 +0000 (UTC), in a place far, far away,
:: (Eric Chomko) made the phosphor on my
:: monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:
:
::
:: But isn't China our most favored nation WRT trade?
:
:: No. Apparently you're as ignorant of the meaning of the phrase "most
:: favored nation."
:
: What does it mean then?
:
:http://www.itds.treas.gov/mfn.html

We don't even call it 'Most Favored Nation' status anymore, precisely
because idiots like El Chimpo get confused.

It is now called 'Normal Trade Relations'.

--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 02:15:33 GMT, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:


"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...

For that matter, I dimly recall a little article published at the height
of the Vietnam War, which estimated how much it would cost to *bribe*
every last man, woman, and child in North Vietnam to stop fighting. I
think it was something like two months of the war budget...

The problem isn't the bribe. It's keeping them bribed.

Yeah. It's kinda like dating.

Dale

"Christopher M. Jones" wrote:

:A more dramatic example would be that of the Barbary
irates. An anemy of the US from back around the turn
f the 19th century. The US agreed to pay out bribes to
:the Barbary pirates in order to keep them from attacking
:US shipping. The Barbary pirates learned this game very
:quickly and periodically escalated their payment demands.
:This eventually caused the US to get fed up and dramatically
:increase the size of its young Navy. After which the
:US made war against the Barbary pirates, won that war, and
roceeded to dictate terms to the pirates. They were
:bothered quite a bit less by the Barbary pirates
:thereafter.
:
:In short, bribes tend to be a way to buy maintenance of
:the status quo, rather than a way to change the status
:quo for the better.

Well, your history is just a BIT off, but the basics are correct.
This is hardly new, though, and one of the other nations paying the
Barbary pirates should have learned better long before.

"Once you pay Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane."


--
"Now watch as the ball revolves and the nighttime falls.
Again the hunt begins, Again the blood wind calls.
By and by, the morning sun will rise,
But the darkness never goes from some men's eyes."
-- "Throwing Stones", The Grateful Dead

Peter Stickney wrote:

Che wa also a hopeless imcompetent. The way Batista ran things, a
talking dog could have taken over Cuba.

(Pat peered over at his talking Taco Bell Chihuahua in the Che beret...)

After Che'd completely
screwed up the economy there, he was cut loose to "go spread
revolution around the World".


Wanna see something cool? http://www.lileks.com/money/cuba/index.html
He's not "Che Guevara" or even "Che G."... he's just "Che".
That is ubercool.
All commies get cool single word names...this guy aces them by getting
the shortest commie single word name...the only other guy who's even in
contention for pure Comcoolness in the name department is Malcolm X.

He was hopelessly humiliated in the
Congo, and there's some debate about whether it was the CIA, the
Bolivian Army, or his own troops who killed him in Bolivia.
He was the Doug Neidermier of Guerilla Warfare.



Yeah, but did he look the part! Who's ever going to beat this look?:
http://digilander.libero.it/falcemar...aper%20CHE.gif
Hell, I'm going to stick that up as my wallpaper for a week on artistic
considerations alone! :-D

Pat