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#32
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Derek Lyons wrote:
Pat; Take anything claiming the Soviets had such-andsuch with a massive grain a salt. It's a growing cottage industry to produce massive glowing accounts of Great Soviet Terror Machines that were never built... And sell them to a gullible and drooling public. Well, Tupolev brought a model of their spaceplane/Mach 6 bomber to the Paris Airshow one year.... Pat |
#33
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#34
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l (Peter Stickney) wrote in message ...
In article , Pat Flannery writes: Peter Stickney wrote: have made that inherent flexibility moot. It's going to use _Soundless Rocket Engines_?! Oh, excuse me...I thought you wrote "Mook" for a second there. ;-) Careful there, Pat, them's Fightin' Words! No fight needed. Pat is merely repeating misinformation about me. This pack of lies arises from comments I made about the the suitability of microengine arrays (propulsive skins) for a wide variety of purposes. I pointed out that such engine arrays could be very quiet - quiet enough to be used for the purposes I mentioned. For the record ... Of course anyone who is a fan of Uncle Scroogw will remember Gyro Gearloose invented the first Soundless Rocket Engine. the CP8; http://www.cbarks.dk/Digital/opf195718a.jpg And though totally fictional, is a hero of my youth! NASA's working on real noiseless engines; http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.01/plasma_pr.html And the USPTO recognizes a classification of noiseless rocket; F42B 29 /00 * Noiseless, smokeless, or flashless missiles launched by their own explosive propellant As I said, noiseless doesn't mean totally silent, only quiet enough to be useful in the roles I outlined for them. This whole line of argumentation against me failed when I indicated that Myrabo's laser rocket was relatively quiet in operation. http://www.rpi.edu/dept/NewsComm/Mag...enss_soe2.html Of course people like Pat recall things in a way that suggests my thoughts are bizzarre in some fashion - along the lines of Gyro Gearloose. I don't know why this is so, my commentary is pretty fully documented. Of course I'm also attacked needlessly because I provide documentation of my views when possible. And I'm attacked when I provide no documentation. So, you see why I don't post here much anymore. Cheers |
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william mook wrote:
No fight needed. Pat is merely repeating misinformation about me. This pack of lies arises from comments I made about the the suitability of microengine arrays (propulsive skins) for a wide variety of purposes. I pointed out that such engine arrays could be very quiet - quiet enough to be used for the purposes I mentioned. For the record ... I'll believe it when I see it...and don't hear it. NASA's working on real noiseless engines; http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.01/plasma_pr.html That's a plasma engine, it's a a whole other ball of wax from what you were proposing, which was a motor capable of lifting something off the Earth's surface while making almost no noise. And the USPTO recognizes a classification of noiseless rocket; F42B 29 /00 * Noiseless, smokeless, or flashless missiles launched by their own explosive propellant They also have a slew of patents on flying saucer designs. As I said, noiseless doesn't mean totally silent, only quiet enough to be useful in the roles I outlined for them. This whole line of argumentation against me failed when I indicated that Myrabo's laser rocket was relatively quiet in operation. http://www.rpi.edu/dept/NewsComm/Mag...enss_soe2.html Myrabo's design isn't a rocket, it's a laser driven jet if it's anything, as it doesn't presently carry any fuel, and relies on the atmosphere for its propulsion; if it does carry fuel at some future point, it will make a noise of some sort when the fuel is detonated by laser...I've seen films of it being flown, and it makes a "whacka-whacka" noise when the beam hits it and the air gets heated up; using this as an analogy is like saying that a Estes model rocket is comparatively noiseless compared to a Space Shuttle. In fact, in Myrabo's and Ing's book "The Future Of Flight" (I assume you have a autographed first edition of this sitting on a satin pillow in a shrine of some sort) it describes what a full-sized device like this would sound like in the following terms: "When those shock waves are whacking the underside of the hull, the whole craft will probably generate a sound like a huge loudspeaker. The sound will be a tone, probably at a pitch somewhere between middle C and high C depending on the frequency of the shocks (A frequency of 264 cycles per second is middle C and the frequency doubles every time the pitch rises one octave.) How many decibels? Let's just say this event could be mistaken for the the blast of Gabriel, and would permanently deafen anyone nearby." (page 105) They later state that they can moderate the noise somewhat by continuous laser bombardment of the underbelly as long as all you have in mind is hovering the vehicle; but the model they tested uses the pulsed blast wave technique to climb. Of course people like Pat recall things in a way that suggests my thoughts are bizzarre in some fashion - along the lines of Gyro Gearloose. More like Rube Goldberg in my opinion. I get the idea that if you had designed the automobile, it would move around on mechanical feet rather than wheels. I don't know why this is so, my commentary is pretty fully documented. Oh, yeah the math is all there- it's the basic ideas that are screwy. Laser powered flying car? Hell! Forget that thing, it's time to resurrect this contraption: http://home.att.net/~dannysoar2/Whirlygig.htm This could probably be made to work; but since the helicopter already exists there is no real reason to build it. I have a feeling that this wouldn't slow you down one iota though... Of course I'm also attacked needlessly because I provide documentation of my views when possible. Then there's something awry with your documentation. Like the plasma rocket being similar to the quiet rocket engine. And I'm attacked when I provide no documentation. So, you see why I don't post here much anymore. Oh, please keep posting- the ideas you come up with are endlessly fascinating in a peculiar way, like Professor Fate's devices in "The Great Race". :-D Cheers Toodles, professor. |
#36
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william mook wrote:
This whole line of argumentation against me failed when I indicated that Myrabo's laser rocket was relatively quiet in operation. Except, of course, that it's not. That very low-thrust little engine sounds like a fricken' machine gun going off... and for good reason, too. It's only quiet if you're deef. |
#37
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Derek Lyons wrote:
Comrade! Behold mighty M-67 LK-M stealth aircraft: http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog...8/12155757.jpg http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog...8/12155808.jpg http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog...8/12155821.jpg Is triumph of Russian aerodynamic genius! Given the number of other design convergences, in aircraft as well as other fields. One shouldn't be surprised. That's a recon plane, BTW. Given that the site you cite is a drooling fanboy site which features a repainted Orion (http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog...ucts_id=18 56) and a repainted U2 (http://www.ussr-airspace.com/catalog...ucts_id=15 10) The Soviets DID try to reverse engineer the U2. Almost got the plane in the sky when the program was cancelled. |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
Except, of course, that it's not. That very low-thrust little engine sounds like a fricken' machine gun going off... and for good reason, too. It's only quiet if you're deef. You just _know_ that he has a copy of "The Future Of Flight", don't you? Giving him that book was about as smart as handing a chimpanzee a live hand grenade....sooner or later it's going to figure out how to get that pin out- and then there'll be hell to pay. I was just browsing through my copy which I hadn't looked at in around ten years- when I bought it, I thought it was brilliant; in retrospect it reads like a flight to Cloud Cuckoo Land. "Giant-supersonic-space-laser-powered-dirigible-flying-thingy-riding-on-a-sheet-of-plasma-and-interacting-with-the-Earth's-magnetic-field-widget". Patent # 39850236906, issued to Dr. Emilio Lizardo. Pat |
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Scott Lowther wrote:
That's a recon plane, BTW. Has anybody figured out what's in that bump on the back of the thing? Camera equipment? The Soviets DID try to reverse engineer the U2. Almost got the plane in the sky when the program was cancelled. But Lockheed STOLE Soviet plans to build clumsy knock-off of superior Soviet reconnaissance aircraft design, comrade! ;-) I'm really annoyed that the English versions of the entries on this page don't seem to work; as they also apparently copied the D-12 drone: http://www.sergib.agava.ru/russia/tupolev/ It would be fun to know more about the Tu-130: http://www.sergib.agava.ru/russia/tupolev/130/130.htm Apparently it's a boost-glide missile. Pat |
#40
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Scott Lowther wrote:
See! Right there! You PROVED Mook right! As soon as he gets his millions and billions of SPS-laser powered flying cars, flying mailboxes and flying lunchboxes zipping around, everyone in the world will be rendered immediately and permanently DEAF. Bleeding out the ears, eyeballs popping *deef*. Then, these rockets will be silent. Yessir... Then they well accidentally step into one of laser drive beams and be permanently blinded also. Think of it! A whole world full of Pinball Wizards! If nothing else, his ideas do not lack grandeur- common sense and rationality, maybe- but not grandeur. :-) Pat |
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