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Space exploration from a shirtsleeve environment
Our current concept of space exploration is too much like the way we do
things on earth. Space station assembly involved many hours of EVA, astronauts in spacesuits trying to finish before their air supply runs low. Our idea of lunar exploration entirely mimics earth activities. The lunar lander encapsulates the astronauts. It lands on the moon, they climb down a ladder, walk or stumble around in the dust, collect samples, maybe drive around in a rover vehicle. In the end they climb back and fly home. I think it would be much more efficient to encapsulate the astronauts in a confortable robotic vehicle that has manipulator arms to collect samples, air conditioning, life support, communications, consumables, motors, etc. We already have a lot of experience with such vehicles from undersea exploration. The astronauts could stay within their vehicles for long periods of time, they could drive around and collect samples, look for water ice and other resources. When they are finished they could dock their vehicles to the ascent module and fly into orbit. There is no need to ever wear spacesuits. Assembly of large structures in the future may be better done in space by astronauts flying around in their robotic vehicles that have manipulator arms. I have spent many years developing force reflecting teleoperation systems that allow the operator to feel the forces that the robot arms feel. This technology works very well when the time delay is short, the operator is not far from the robot. In general any acivity in space or on another celestial body could be more effectively performed by designing robotic life support vehicles around the individuals involved. This same principle applies even to most environments on the earth, such as military activities. I believe these vehicles can be more cheaply developed and built than spacesuits, they can also save weight overall. The astronauts can spend more time working, they can exert larger forces, observe minute details better. They are also safer from meteorite impacts and equipment malfunctions. |
#2
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"zoltan" wrote in message
oups.com... Our current concept of space exploration is too much like the way we do things on earth. Space station assembly involved many hours of EVA, astronauts in spacesuits trying to finish before their air supply runs low. Our idea of lunar exploration entirely mimics earth activities. The lunar lander encapsulates the astronauts. It lands on the moon, they climb down a ladder, walk or stumble around in the dust, collect samples, maybe drive around in a rover vehicle. In the end they climb back and fly home. I think it would be much more efficient to encapsulate the astronauts in a confortable robotic vehicle that has manipulator arms to collect samples, air conditioning, life support, communications, consumables, motors, etc. We already have a lot of experience with such vehicles from undersea exploration. The astronauts could stay within their vehicles for long periods of time, they could drive around and collect samples, look for water ice and other resources. When they are finished they could dock their vehicles to the ascent module and fly into orbit. There is no need to ever wear spacesuits. Assembly of large structures in the future may be better done in space by astronauts flying around in their robotic vehicles that have manipulator arms. I have spent many years developing force reflecting teleoperation systems that allow the operator to feel the forces that the robot arms feel. This technology works very well when the time delay is short, the operator is not far from the robot. In general any acivity in space or on another celestial body could be more effectively performed by designing robotic life support vehicles around the individuals involved. This same principle applies even to most environments on the earth, such as military activities. I believe these vehicles can be more cheaply developed and built than spacesuits, they can also save weight overall. The astronauts can spend more time working, they can exert larger forces, observe minute details better. They are also safer from meteorite impacts and equipment malfunctions. Another way to use a shirtsleeve environment is to have astronauts stay in one place and have robots scurry about on the surface of the moon. There would be a habitat with a large garage. Vehicles could fetch things and bring them to the astronauts. Astronauts could perform maintenance on the vehicles. |
#3
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On 1 Oct 2005 23:17:51 -0700, "zoltan" wrote:
Our current concept of space exploration is too much like the way we do things on earth. Space station assembly involved many hours of EVA, astronauts in spacesuits trying to finish before their air supply runs low. Our idea of lunar exploration entirely mimics earth activities. The lunar lander encapsulates the astronauts. It lands on the moon, they climb down a ladder, walk or stumble around in the dust, collect samples, maybe drive around in a rover vehicle. In the end they climb back and fly home. I think it would be much more efficient to encapsulate the astronauts in a confortable robotic vehicle that has manipulator arms to collect samples, air conditioning, life support, communications, consumables, motors, etc. We already have a lot of experience with such vehicles from undersea exploration. The astronauts could stay within their vehicles for long periods of time, they could drive around and collect samples, look for water ice and other resources. When they are finished they could dock their vehicles to the ascent module and fly into orbit. There is no need to ever wear spacesuits. Assembly of large structures in the future may be better done in space by astronauts flying around in their robotic vehicles that have manipulator arms. I have spent many years developing force reflecting teleoperation systems that allow the operator to feel the forces that the robot arms feel. This technology works very well when the time delay is short, the operator is not far from the robot. In general any acivity in space or on another celestial body could be more effectively performed by designing robotic life support vehicles around the individuals involved. This same principle applies even to most environments on the earth, such as military activities. I believe these vehicles can be more cheaply developed and built than spacesuits, they can also save weight overall. The astronauts can spend more time working, they can exert larger forces, observe minute details better. They are also safer from meteorite impacts and equipment malfunctions. If you're going to do that, why do the astronauts have to be on site? Seems like it would be cheaper and safer for them to run the show from the space station or a nearby vehicle or base. -- Josh "It was amazing I won. I was running against peace and prosperity and incumbency." - George W. Bush |
#4
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In article .com,
zoltan wrote: I think it would be much more efficient to encapsulate the astronauts in a confortable robotic vehicle that has manipulator arms to collect samples, air conditioning, life support, communications, consumables, motors, etc. We already have a lot of experience with such vehicles from undersea exploration. Yes, and they're distinctly clumsy and difficult to get things done in; they're used underwater simply because there's no good alternative. For space, the idea has been suggested many times, but to date, hands and feet simply work better. -- spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. | |
#5
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#6
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"zoltan" wrote in message oups.com... Our current concept of space exploration is too much like the way we do things on earth. Space station assembly involved many hours of EVA, astronauts in spacesuits trying to finish before their air supply runs low. Our idea of lunar exploration entirely mimics earth activities. The lunar lander encapsulates the astronauts. It lands on the moon, they climb down a ladder, walk or stumble around in the dust, collect samples, maybe drive around in a rover vehicle. In the end they climb back and fly home. I think it would be much more efficient to encapsulate the astronauts in a confortable robotic vehicle that has manipulator arms to collect samples, air conditioning, life support, communications, consumables, motors, etc. We already have a lot of experience with such vehicles from undersea exploration. The astronauts could stay within their vehicles for long periods of time, they could drive around and collect samples, look for water ice and other resources. When they are finished they could dock their vehicles to the ascent module and fly into orbit. There is no need to ever wear spacesuits. Assembly of large structures in the future may be better done in space by astronauts flying around in their robotic vehicles that have manipulator arms. I have spent many years developing force reflecting teleoperation systems that allow the operator to feel the forces that the robot arms feel. This technology works very well when the time delay is short, the operator is not far from the robot. In general any acivity in space or on another celestial body could be more effectively performed by designing robotic life support vehicles around the individuals involved. This same principle applies even to most environments on the earth, such as military activities. I believe these vehicles can be more cheaply developed and built than spacesuits, they can also save weight overall. The astronauts can spend more time working, they can exert larger forces, observe minute details better. They are also safer from meteorite impacts and equipment malfunctions. We need a nuclear powered spacecraft to be build in earth or moon orbit on on the moon. Only shuttles would fly from the nuclear space craft to the earth. |
#7
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Operating the robot arms is much easier if you are right there wired to
their controller electronics. Visibility is also much better if you use your own eyes through a sheet of glass or polycarbonate. |
#8
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On 3 Oct 2005 14:08:09 -0700, "zoltan" wrote:
Operating the robot arms is much easier if you are right there wired to their controller electronics. Visibility is also much better if you use your own eyes through a sheet of glass or polycarbonate. The second is a good point. Not sure if I understand the first; why should hard wired control be more effective than a high bandwidth radio link? -- Josh "It was amazing I won. I was running against peace and prosperity and incumbency." - George W. Bush |
#9
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When you use force feedback, you get the feeling that you are doing the
manipulation yourself. This can only be done well if the time delay is short, on the order of a few milliseconds, up to about maybe 20. Radio links have time delays not only from time of flight of the signal but also from the filters used in the transmit and receive electronics. I worked with 5 mSeconds time delay and 1mS servo loop time and got decent results. Some time delay is due to the kinematic transformations done by the control computers. Reliability also suffers if you have to maintain a radio link between the operator and the robot. |
#10
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zoltan wrote: When you use force feedback, you get the feeling that you are doing the manipulation yourself. This can only be done well if the time delay is short, on the order of a few milliseconds, up to about maybe 20. Radio links have time delays not only from time of flight of the signal but also from the filters used in the transmit and receive electronics. I worked with 5 mSeconds time delay and 1mS servo loop time and got decent results. Some time delay is due to the kinematic transformations done by the control computers. Reliability also suffers if you have to maintain a radio link between the operator and the robot. That's good information. It seems to largely preclude Earth based operation of the robots, but I agree with Josh, moon based operation over a wireless link is the way to go. A mix might be possible - simple things like driving from A to B, transporting a cargo could be done by an Earth based operator. Compex things like unscrewing a section of pipe might be done from the lunar hab module. I mentioned elsewhere that a large proportion of the astronaut time would be spent in a repair shed. Robots would any pieces they couldn't repair through the airlock. If Astronauts are going to spend 6-12 months on the moon, they'd want to minimise surface time. See Mike Combs story for a good description: http://members.aol.com/howiecombs/tnbttbt.htm |
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