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#31
June 29th 04, 11:36 PM
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#32
June 29th 04, 11:44 PM
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On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 16:59:01 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote: I can't even remember what the stand on Revell one looked like. ....The base was a flat piece of grey plastic, beveled at the edges at ~45 degs, and had a serration that "divided" the base into four equal squares. The supports were four in number, and fit between the outer fairings of the four outer F-1's. They were triangular, with the side perpendicular to the deck being notched so as to allow the S-1C to sit on them slightly. Which is odd, because they did have a J-2 on the third stage, so why didn't they just use five more of those? ....Monogram sometimes was hit-and-miss. Considering how poorly that kit sold, and how one or two modeling magazines bashed it - hell, IIRC even _Car Model_ mentioned it! - they can still be forgiven after the 1/32 CSM stack and the LM diorama. The Airfix one has a far better detailed second stage engine assembly. ....True. Still, I prefer the Revell version, even if they got lazy and simply reused the Block I CSM tooling from that old "over the rainbow" CSM & LM kit. Also remember the strange cone-with-top-hole the Monogram one had at the top of the second stage? That made it look like the J-2 on the third stage was stuck into the interior of the second stage's LH2 tank? ....Yup. Again, very sloppy work, but the more I think about it, I have this suspicion that they expected the kit to be displayed as one solid stack and only rarely separated. On the other hand, having that peg at the tip of the CM made repeated dockings with the LM far more survivable than that thin goofy hook arrangement on the end of the Revell 1/96 CM. Those usually survived one or two rendezvous at best. It had three basic problems: 1.) It was large and unwieldy when finished, and due to its lightweight construction, easy to tip over. ....Again, I blame that base. With the Monogram base, the F-1's were sunk below the holes, and if the rocket tipped over it usually didn't tip very far. 2.) The scale was odd, and there were few other things in 1/96th scale to compare it to (I'm trying to remember- were the Revell Mercury-Redstone and Mercury-Atlas in 1/96th? I've got the Mercury-Atlas, and that looks about right.) ....The ones you speak of were in an even weirder scale:1/110. Those were as follows: * Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster: Everything is "Go", Revell #H-1833 (1962). THis was a revamp of the Atlas ICMB kit, with the nuke payload replaced with the Mercury. FYI, in 1968 a large number of these turned up in a warehouse and wound up getting dumped to the Gibson's chain of department stores. This led to some kit historians believing that there was a '68 re-release. The box cover & instructions have no copyright corrections, and besides, you could tell by the compression of the box by the perpetually shrinking wrap that they'd been in storage for a while. This is the one I had, and it's still one of the most fun kits to have, even if it didn't have the full gantry and only the pad :-( http://www.airspacemodels.com/mercuryatlas.htm * Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster: Everything is "Go", Revell #H-1833 (1994), Selected Subjects Program * Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster: Everything is "Go", Revell-Monogram #85-1833 (1998) * Mercury Capsule with Atlas Booster, Revell #8647 (1983), History Makers II * Mercury Capsule with Atlas Booster, Monogram #5910, Young Astronauts * Mercury/Redstone, Revell (Lodela) #H-1832, Full color box art * Redstone Booster and Mercury Capsule, Revell #H-1832 (1961), Newsprint box art. 3.) It was expensive, and the lower-cost Monogram one was more reasonably sized, as well as more conventional in construction... ....Yeah, but it was *STILL* more fun to assemble than just gluing two sides together, dammit! :-) in later runs of the Monogram kit the two piece LM was replaced by one that had opening legs and a separable upper stage IIRC, so that you could simulate the whole trip like you could with the Revell one. ....No, the opening legs were in the first release as well, although the AM wasn't separate from the DM. The assembly was similar to that on the 1/200 AMT version that got re-released a few years ago with extra CSM stacks thrown in for reasons unknown but damn well appreciated :-) Without the CM falling off of the SM and breaking the three pins that held it on to the SM, and without the odd widget the locked the LM to the CM snapping off also. ....The docking widget was the worst, and as long as you had two pins the CM stayed on fine. Considering the damn kit stayed under a buck all the way through most of the 70's except when it was recycled for ASTP, Revell probably considered it disposable enough for kids to buy a new one whenever they broke it during a mission :-) (Why Aurora never did a line of space kits still bugs me. Considering their expertise in figure kits at the time, they should have been the ones doing the Ed White kit, as well as a Neil Armstrong one.) Neither the Revell one or the Monogram one gave you the Boost Protective Cover for the CM IIRC, but the Airfix one does. ....Again, Revell did the tooling for the CSM stack based on the Block I configuration, something they've never corrected, and probably never will. That's why we have RealSpace Models: http://www.realspacemodels.com/html/catalog5.htm ....and New Wave: http://mek.kosmo.cz/newware/index.htm ....Sven Knudson reviewed the CSM correction kits, and IIRC gave it a rather positive review. I converted a Revell 1/48th scale Apollo CM into a Lunokhod when I was a kid. ....The shape of the lid is about the same as that of the CM heat shield, so I can see how that might work. OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr
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#33
June 30th 04, 12:19 AM
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On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:35:51 +0100, Darren J Longhorn
wrote: I, dunno, I fancy one of these: http://www.polecataerospace.com/saturn_v_-_10.htm ....You know, after seeing the title of this page, I can understand how some gals can be fooled into thinking three inches is "actually" twelve. [Cue Pat] OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr
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#34
June 30th 04, 12:30 AM
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On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 22:36:00 GMT, (Mike
Flugennock) wrote: Dude, it's the glue. Don't slag the hippies when the glue's got you on the ceiling, channeling Werner von Braun. (;^ ....Mike, this is your new .sig :-) OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr
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#35
June 30th 04, 03:08 AM
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On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 05:10:32 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote: "Whoop-tee-doo for the young space enthusiast whose parents gave him this tiny gift rather than the Almost God-like Revell Saturn V; or wonderful Apollo/LM kit with upper S-IVB stage and escape tower in 1/48th scale... I say that we track down the address of every Commie-Loving Pinko Parent who thought that they COULDN'T afford a DECENT Apollo model for little Timmy; and have Buzz beat them to within an inch of their Miserable Red Lives Buzz would be beating them to buy his model. I got one for Ken as a joke, because I thought he'd be greatly amused by the simulation of launch, complete with countdown and engine sounds. It's not the most accurate model in the world but all the parts are there and it's very useful for showing people how things worked. The Apollo/CM/LM model is just one of the Buzz Aldrin Collection. Collect them all! Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer
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#36
June 30th 04, 03:24 AM
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OM wrote: ...Yup. Again, very sloppy work, but the more I think about it, I have this suspicion that they expected the kit to be displayed as one solid stack and only rarely separated. On the other hand, having that peg at the tip of the CM made repeated dockings with the LM far more survivable than that thin goofy hook arrangement on the end of the Revell 1/96 CM. Those usually survived one or two rendezvous at best. Yeah, that was pretty fragile.. the stand on the Monogram 1/32 scale CSM is also prone to tipping over. It had three basic problems: 1.) It was large and unwieldy when finished, and due to its lightweight construction, easy to tip over. ...Again, I blame that base. With the Monogram base, the F-1's were sunk below the holes, and if the rocket tipped over it usually didn't tip very far. Not only that, but it had the two hold-down clips that snapped onto the base of the first stage...I never could figure out why they molded the base in yellow; it was the only yellow part in the kit. Ever have the Revell SST "two-in-one" (one with wings swept, one with them open) kit? It was also molded in a hideous shade of yellow for no reason I could ever understand. I'll bet it brings a pretty penny nowadays, the whole SST program was heading downhill at the time the model was released. Not so downhill that Monogram also release a kit of one... and Lindberg had small models of all three designs- Concorde, Tu-144, and the 2707 IIRC. * Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster: Everything is "Go", Revell #H-1833 (1962). THis was a revamp of the Atlas ICMB kit, with the nuke payload replaced with the Mercury. FYI, in 1968 a large number of these turned up in a warehouse and wound up getting dumped to the Gibson's chain of department stores. This led to some kit historians believing that there was a '68 re-release. The box cover & instructions have no copyright corrections, and besides, you could tell by the compression of the box by the perpetually shrinking wrap that they'd been in storage for a while. This is the one I had, and it's still one of the most fun kits to have, even if it didn't have the full gantry and only the pad :-( I've got one from their re-release a few years ago...about 90% of the parts in the kit are for the launcher, not the rocket and capsule. * Redstone Booster and Mercury Capsule, Revell #H-1832 (1961), Newsprint box art. I had one of those as a kid, that was a weird box. 3.) It was expensive, and the lower-cost Monogram one was more reasonably sized, as well as more conventional in construction... ...Yeah, but it was *STILL* more fun to assemble than just gluing two sides together, dammit! :-) It was certainly a novel approach to the problem; I wonder if they were influenced by the vacuformed sails on their sailing ships? in later runs of the Monogram kit the two piece LM was replaced by one that had opening legs and a separable upper stage IIRC, so that you could simulate the whole trip like you could with the Revell one. ...No, the opening legs were in the first release as well, although I got one on just about the day it came out, and at first the whole LM was just two pieces divided vertically IIRC; the more involved LM with the opening legs came along around a year or two later, and I felt cheated that my model didn't have one. I assume they were in a rush to get it on the market. I still want to see photographic evidence of that Revell 1/24th scale Gemini with the landing legs on it that you talk about; the landing gear doors on the 1/24th scale one aren't separate like the 1/48th scale one, so if they made one, they must have retooled it pretty severely to remove the landing gear...I'm pretty sure that by the time the 1/24th scale one was released the landing gear had been dropped from the Gemini program, and the model never had it. Does a vacuformed Rogallo parawing ring any bells in relation to a Revell Gemini kit? Something about that seems familiar to me. the AM wasn't separate from the DM. The assembly was similar to that on the 1/200 AMT version that got re-released a few years ago with extra CSM stacks thrown in for reasons unknown but damn well appreciated :-) On of the best "parts source" kits ever, if only for all those engine bells. A AMT SM engine bell is hanging off the second stage of the 1/144th Monogram Gemini/Titan conversion I made from the Titan II in the US/USSR missile set. Without the CM falling off of the SM and breaking the three pins that held it on to the SM, and without the odd widget the locked the LM to the CM snapping off also. ...The docking widget was the worst, and as long as you had two pins the CM stayed on fine. Considering the damn kit stayed under a buck all the way through most of the 70's except when it was recycled for ASTP, Revell probably considered it disposable enough for kids to buy a new one whenever they broke it during a mission :-) Remember "The Science Service"? The guys with all the sticker books? That was the model that replaced the 1/48th scale Mercury/Gemini as your subscription prize. (Why Aurora never did a line of space kits still bugs me. They did some missiles, and the X-15, though. I just wish somebody would do a 1/32 scale X-15 with removable XLR-99 engine and detailed cockpit...do you hear me, Hasegawa? Want a real envy attack? When I was a kid, I had the Strombecker Disney Satellite Rocket with the transparent body and paper insert innards, as well as the chrome BB metal satellite in the transparent nosecone. Considering their expertise in figure kits at the time, they should have been the ones doing the Ed White kit, as well as a Neil Armstrong one.) They did do an astronaut: http://plmodels3.tripod.com/zorro.htm Pat
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#37
June 30th 04, 03:57 AM
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On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 21:24:10 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote: Not only that, but it had the two hold-down clips that snapped onto the base of the first stage...I never could figure out why they molded the base in yellow; it was the only yellow part in the kit. ....I'd forgotten about the hold-down clips :-) As for why yellow, it's probably for the same reason that Aurora's standard airplane stand was either clear or grey - the former because it looked neat, the latter because that's what they had in stock. Ever have the Revell SST "two-in-one" (one with wings swept, one with them open) kit? It was also molded in a hideous shade of yellow for no reason I could ever understand. ....My understanding was that it was influenced by a couple of Boeing pre-production paintings, both of which had the SST in that very shade of yellow. IIRC, the actual mockup was white & Air Farce One blue. I'll bet it brings a pretty penny nowadays ....Unassembled, probably so. That kit never was re-released, but then again it didn't sell all that well as it came out about five years too late. It was certainly a novel approach to the problem; I wonder if they were influenced by the vacuformed sails on their sailing ships? ....The way I understood it, it had to do with the fact that had they made the entire stage in plastic, the kit would have weighed about four times what it actually did, and even with the rollup tubing the damn thing was still pretty hefty. The running joke is that if you install all the resin part replacements and line the insides with cardstock *and* add an axial support to beef things up, you'll get the kit weight back up to what it would have been had it been shipped all in styrene. ....On a side note, I've heard of one suggestion for reinforcing the rollup tubing: Roll it up, glue it to one end, fill it up halfway with foam insulation, let it set, fill up to nearly the top, and once that sets and expands cut off what's sticking out and then cap off the stage. Apparently there's some really lightweight foam that you can get at the auto parts stores that works and doesn't give off too much caustic outgassing that could ruin the tubes. Not sure on the brands, tho. I got one on just about the day it came out, and at first the whole LM was just two pieces divided vertically IIRC; the more involved LM with the opening legs came along around a year or two later, and I felt cheated that my model didn't have one. I assume they were in a rush to get it on the market. ....They must have corrected this *very* early in the run, as I got mine about the same time. Not surprising, as Bandai just released an A version of their totally overpriced TMP Enterprise, hot on the heels of their original TMP "E" kit. This time, they corrected some paint errors *and* made the deflector dish blue as it's supposed to be. Still didn't carve out the botanical gardens, tho. Dips... I still want to see photographic evidence of that Revell 1/24th scale Gemini with the landing legs on it that you talk about; the landing gear doors on the 1/24th scale one aren't separate like the 1/48th scale one, so if they made one, they must have retooled it pretty severely to remove the landing gear...I'm pretty sure that by the time the 1/24th scale one was released the landing gear had been dropped from the Gemini program, and the model never had it. ....I had the 1/24 version and the 1/48 one as well when they first came out. The 1/24 I had *did* have the landing gear. If I still had that kit, I'd even post a picture here just to **** everyone off :-). But that kit's gone with the ages along with the rest of my kits - very long story there, but it'll explain why I plan to actually *drop* Pop in the hole when it's time to cover him up with dirt. Does a vacuformed Rogallo parawing ring any bells in relation to a Revell Gemini kit? ....Nope. That's what really struck me odd as there being no Rogallo wing to go with it. Hell, if Monogram could create thick styrene chutes for their funky dragsters, why couldn't Revell do a simple vacuform one for their space kits? On of the best "parts source" kits ever, if only for all those engine bells. A AMT SM engine bell is hanging off the second stage of the 1/144th Monogram Gemini/Titan conversion I made from the Titan II in the US/USSR missile set. ....Ok, clarify this one, Pat. Just one? Remember "The Science Service"? The guys with all the sticker books? That was the model that replaced the 1/48th scale Mercury/Gemini as your subscription prize. ....Never did get into any of those collector's clubs like that. My 7'2" cousin steered me away from that path, as he'd gotten burned by Revell back when they started that mess in '62 or thereabouts. Seems they used it to dump a lot of their excess stock, and most of the kits available for "discount" were kits nobody wanted to buy in the first place. They [Aurora] did some missiles, and the X-15, though. I just wish somebody would do a 1/32 scale X-15 with removable XLR-99 engine and detailed cockpit...do you hear me, Hasegawa? ....Hasegawa. Good kits, overpriced, but not as bad as Bandai. The Japs would get a *LOT* more Stateside business if they'd quit gouging on the shipping costs. Want a real envy attack? When I was a kid, I had the Strombecker Disney Satellite Rocket with the transparent body and paper insert innards, as well as the chrome BB metal satellite in the transparent nosecone. ....I think you mentioned this before. I've *seen* one of these years ago. Some local modeller was showing off his collection at one of those Creation Con-Jobs, and had *five* Revell S-V's in various configurations, including some I thought were total bull**** until Mark Wade proved the designs existed at least on paper. He had one of those, although it was obviously rebuilt, and there's only so much you can do to repair clear plastic that's yellowed where the Testor's has gotten ancient. They did do an astronaut: http://plmodels3.tripod.com/zorro.htm ....Yeah, I had that one too, with the goofy underscaled Gemini stand. This guy's paint job, however, sucks beyond compare :-) OM -- "No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society - General George S. Patton, Jr
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#38
June 30th 04, 08:51 PM
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"OM" om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote in message ... ...FYI, he's got right-click blocking enabled, but if you do a SAVE AS from IE or any inferior browser, you can save these images to your hard drive for background purposes. USA Today pages don't normally save very well, if it at all, but I find opening the pages in FrontPage makes them much easier to save.
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