Hoagland a fraud?

In sci.space.policy * wrote:
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:32:26 GMT, Wally Anglesea?
wrote:

Not at all, nada. Even *amateur* astronomers can test for that.
I guess they must be part of a grand international conspiracy, huh?

Care to explain how that is possible, kook?

You believe NASA lies, that's why.

Are you contending that it's impossible for amateuur astronomers to
detect a breathable atmosphere on mars, or that they are part of NASA?
Even the Russian ones?

Ian Stirling wrote:

In sci.space.policy * wrote:

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 02:32:26 GMT, Wally Anglesea?
wrote:


Not at all, nada. Even *amateur* astronomers can test for that.
I guess they must be part of a grand international conspiracy, huh?

Care to explain how that is possible, kook?

You believe NASA lies, that's why.


Are you contending that it's impossible for amateuur astronomers to
detect a breathable atmosphere on mars, or that they are part of NASA?
Even the Russian ones?

All that means is that the conspiracy is far larger than originally
thought! Trust no one!

Brett "Lone conspiracy nuts will be our salvation" Buck

"$"
I'm not being paid to post to Usenet.

Hell I'd pay you to just reduce the length of your msg quotes.

"John Savard" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:38:00 GMT, * wrote, in part:

Malin has the evidence, I'm just the messenger.

Well, you need evidence

Don't you know? That new Pepsi commercial *proves* there is life on Mars and
NASA is hiding it!

Herb Schaltegger wrote:

Repeating unsubstantiated bull**** over and over doesn't make it true.

And writing multiple messages a day in reply to a troll does not help
matters any.

I've already filed one abuse complaint today over your off-topi and
off-charter nonsense for sci.space. Would you like me to add another
for your dozen-plus posts containing nothing but the same text over and
over?

If one must feed the trolls, one reply per day, per troll, should
suffice.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"*" wrote in message
...
|
| That's not what NASA insiders say.
....
| That's not what NASA insiders say.
....
| That's not what NASA insiders say.
....
| You believe NASA lies, that's why.

Selective validation of source duly noted.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org

"Kent Betts" wrote in message
...
|
| I have noticed that he now prefaces his presentations with lengthy
| allegations of conspiracy to hide information, that NASA knows but
| doesn't want you to know.

Richard Hoagland is "We Hate NASA" Central.

| So I think that this is strong evidence of paranoia and is symptomatic
| of a delusional crank.

True, but there are delusions born of mental illness and delusions of
convenience born of a conscious desire to see some things a certain way.

It looks to me like Hoagland aspired to be some sort of a space scientist
but for some reason didn't make the cut. And so at first it seemed he tried
to ride the successes of others, but when that failed to get him the
recognition he felt he deserved, then he turned to antagonism. It's all
about getting back at NASA for failing to recognize him as the genius he
believes he is.

--
|
The universe is not required to conform | Jay Windley
to the expectations of the ignorant. | webmaster @ clavius.org

For everyone's entertainment and information:

Richard C. Hoagland

Biographical Information
Richard C. Hoagland is a former museum space science Curator; a former
NASA Consultant; and, during the historic Apollo Missions to the Moon,
was science advisor to Walter Cronkite and CBS News. In the
mid-1960's, at the age of 19 (possibly "the youngest museum curator in
the country at the time"), Hoagland created his first elaborate
commemorative event -- around NASA's first historic unmanned fly-by of
the planet Mars, Mariner 4. A simultaneous all-night, transcontinental
radio program the evening of the Encounter (linking the museum in
Springfield, Mass., and NASA's JPL control center, in Pasadena, Ca.),
co-produced by Hoagland and WTIC-Radio, in Hartford, Ct., was
subsequently nominated for a Peabody Award, one of journalism's most
prestigious.

In the early 1970's, Hoagland proposed to Carl Sagan (along with Eric
Burgess) the placement of a "message to Mankind" aboard Pioneer 10 --
humanity's "first unmanned probe of Jupiter"; subsequent to its 1973
Jovian Encounter, celestial mechanics resulted in Pioneer 10 becoming
the first artifact to successfully escape the solar system into the
vast Galaxy beyond -- carrying "the Plaque" -- whose origins were
officially acknowledged by Sagan in the prestigious journal, SCIENCE
(175 [1972], 881).

In the early 1980's, based on NASA data from the more sophisticated
unmanned Voyager fly-bys of the outer planets, Hoagland became the
first to propose (in a widely-quoted series of UPI and AP stories on
his startling paper, published in 1980 in Star & Sky magazine) the
possible existence of "deep ocean life" under the global ice shield
perpetually surrounding the enigmatic moon of Jupiter, Europa. At the
time, most (though not all) NASA scientists instantly derided this
idea; two outstanding dissenters from the unfortunately then-common
NASA view were Director of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies,
Dr. Robert Jastrow, and well-known science writer and visionary,
Arthur C. Clarke. In the sequel to his outstanding epic "2001" ("2010:
Odyssey Two"), built entirely around this extraordinary concept of
"eon-old life in the ice-covered oceans of Europa," Clarke wrote:

"The fascinating idea that there might be life on Europa . . . was
first proposed by Richard C. Hoagland [in a 30-page article] in the
magazine Star & Sky... This quite brilliant concept has been taken
seriously by a number of astronomers (notably NASA's Institute for
Space Studies, Dr. Robert Jastrow), and may provide one of the best
motives for the projected GALILEO Mission."

Remarkably, before recent NASA press conferences and television
documentaries, celebrating the successfully GALILEO probe of Jupiter's
atmosphere, December 7, 1995, NASA scientists' "belated" acceptance of
the startling possibility of "life in Europa's oceans" has been widely
presented and discussed. As is GALILEO's potential acquisition of new
data from its upcoming Europa fly-bys which could lead to actual
confirmation (!) of the "Hoagland model." Curiously, despite clearly
prior publication and detailed elaboration of the concept, Hoagland's
name is not being mentioned anywhere by NASA, or by current GALILEO
scientists, in connection with "Europa"...

In the early 1990's Mr. Hoagland led a team of volunteers and
consultants in the creation of a pioneering "space-age" inner-city
educational effort at Dunbar Senior High, just off Capitol Hill, in
Washington D.C. The experiment was built around the concept of
"student involvement in real time' mission planning and data
acquisition" during various NASA planetary exploration missions, such
as "Hubble" and the ill-fated "Mars Observer." Starting as an after
school extracurricular activity, and using donated state-of-the-art
computer imaging equipment and enhancement algorithms, "The Enterprise
Mission" and "becoming a crew member of the 'U.S.S. Dunbar'"
eventually became an accredited course in the Dunbar school
curriculum. Over the years, scores of senior NASA Headquarters and
Goddard Space Flight Center personnel have enthusiastically
participated in the project, including installation of a student
satellite data link direct to NASA and on-site briefing of students on
many current NASA projects. Education advocate, then First Lady
Barbara Bush, personally came to Dunbar early in the project, for a
personal briefing by the students; this -- the original "ENTERPRISE
Mission" -- was ultimately nominated for a White House "Point of
Light" award.

For the last 13 years, since 1983, Hoagland has been leading an
outside scientific Team in a critically acclaimed independent analysis
of possible intelligently-designed artifacts on NASA (and other) data
sets -- beginning with the unmanned NASA VIKING mission to Mars in
1976, and its provocative images of a region called "Cydonia."
Hoagland and his Team have been invited at least four times to various
NASA Centers since 1988, to brief thousands of NASA scientists and
engineers on the results of their on-going "Cydonia investigation." In
1989, Hoagland and his colleagues briefed then-Chairman of the House
Committee on Space Science and Applications, Representative Robert
Roe, on the status of their "Mars Investigation." Chairman Roe, before
his sudden and unexplained resignation from the Congress, directed
NASA to acquire better images from Mars during its then-upcoming "Mars
Observer mission"; Mars Observer's equally sudden and tragic
disappearance in 1993 precluded any new data relating to "Cydonia." In
1993, Hoagland was awarded the International Angstrom Medal for
Excellence in Science by the Angstrom Foundation, in Stockholm,
Sweden, for that continuing research. In the last 4 years, he and his
Team's investigations have been quietly extended to include over 30
years of previously hidden data from NASA, Soviet, and Pentagon
missions to the Moon -- with startling results.

For everyone's information and entertainment:

Richard C. Hoagland

Biographical Information
Richard C. Hoagland is a former museum space science Curator; a former
NASA Consultant; and, during the historic Apollo Missions to the Moon,
was science advisor to Walter Cronkite and CBS News. In the
mid-1960's, at the age of 19 (possibly "the youngest museum curator in
the country at the time"), Hoagland created his first elaborate
commemorative event -- around NASA's first historic unmanned fly-by of
the planet Mars, Mariner 4. A simultaneous all-night, transcontinental
radio program the evening of the Encounter (linking the museum in
Springfield, Mass., and NASA's JPL control center, in Pasadena, Ca.),
co-produced by Hoagland and WTIC-Radio, in Hartford, Ct., was
subsequently nominated for a Peabody Award, one of journalism's most
prestigious.

In the early 1970's, Hoagland proposed to Carl Sagan (along with Eric
Burgess) the placement of a "message to Mankind" aboard Pioneer 10 --
humanity's "first unmanned probe of Jupiter"; subsequent to its 1973
Jovian Encounter, celestial mechanics resulted in Pioneer 10 becoming
the first artifact to successfully escape the solar system into the
vast Galaxy beyond -- carrying "the Plaque" -- whose origins were
officially acknowledged by Sagan in the prestigious journal, SCIENCE
(175 [1972], 881).

In the early 1980's, based on NASA data from the more sophisticated
unmanned Voyager fly-bys of the outer planets, Hoagland became the
first to propose (in a widely-quoted series of UPI and AP stories on
his startling paper, published in 1980 in Star & Sky magazine) the
possible existence of "deep ocean life" under the global ice shield
perpetually surrounding the enigmatic moon of Jupiter, Europa. At the
time, most (though not all) NASA scientists instantly derided this
idea; two outstanding dissenters from the unfortunately then-common
NASA view were Director of the Goddard Institute for Space Studies,
Dr. Robert Jastrow, and well-known science writer and visionary,
Arthur C. Clarke. In the sequel to his outstanding epic "2001" ("2010:
Odyssey Two"), built entirely around this extraordinary concept of
"eon-old life in the ice-covered oceans of Europa," Clarke wrote:

"The fascinating idea that there might be life on Europa . . . was
first proposed by Richard C. Hoagland [in a 30-page article] in the
magazine Star & Sky... This quite brilliant concept has been taken
seriously by a number of astronomers (notably NASA's Institute for
Space Studies, Dr. Robert Jastrow), and may provide one of the best
motives for the projected GALILEO Mission."

Remarkably, before recent NASA press conferences and television
documentaries, celebrating the successfully GALILEO probe of Jupiter's
atmosphere, December 7, 1995, NASA scientists' "belated" acceptance of
the startling possibility of "life in Europa's oceans" has been widely
presented and discussed. As is GALILEO's potential acquisition of new
data from its upcoming Europa fly-bys which could lead to actual
confirmation (!) of the "Hoagland model." Curiously, despite clearly
prior publication and detailed elaboration of the concept, Hoagland's
name is not being mentioned anywhere by NASA, or by current GALILEO
scientists, in connection with "Europa"...

In the early 1990's Mr. Hoagland led a team of volunteers and
consultants in the creation of a pioneering "space-age" inner-city
educational effort at Dunbar Senior High, just off Capitol Hill, in
Washington D.C. The experiment was built around the concept of
"student involvement in real time' mission planning and data
acquisition" during various NASA planetary exploration missions, such
as "Hubble" and the ill-fated "Mars Observer." Starting as an after
school extracurricular activity, and using donated state-of-the-art
computer imaging equipment and enhancement algorithms, "The Enterprise
Mission" and "becoming a crew member of the 'U.S.S. Dunbar'"
eventually became an accredited course in the Dunbar school
curriculum. Over the years, scores of senior NASA Headquarters and
Goddard Space Flight Center personnel have enthusiastically
participated in the project, including installation of a student
satellite data link direct to NASA and on-site briefing of students on
many current NASA projects. Education advocate, then First Lady
Barbara Bush, personally came to Dunbar early in the project, for a
personal briefing by the students; this -- the original "ENTERPRISE
Mission" -- was ultimately nominated for a White House "Point of
Light" award.

For the last 13 years, since 1983, Hoagland has been leading an
outside scientific Team in a critically acclaimed independent analysis
of possible intelligently-designed artifacts on NASA (and other) data
sets -- beginning with the unmanned NASA VIKING mission to Mars in
1976, and its provocative images of a region called "Cydonia."
Hoagland and his Team have been invited at least four times to various
NASA Centers since 1988, to brief thousands of NASA scientists and
engineers on the results of their on-going "Cydonia investigation." In
1989, Hoagland and his colleagues briefed then-Chairman of the House
Committee on Space Science and Applications, Representative Robert
Roe, on the status of their "Mars Investigation." Chairman Roe, before
his sudden and unexplained resignation from the Congress, directed
NASA to acquire better images from Mars during its then-upcoming "Mars
Observer mission"; Mars Observer's equally sudden and tragic
disappearance in 1993 precluded any new data relating to "Cydonia." In
1993, Hoagland was awarded the International Angstrom Medal for
Excellence in Science by the Angstrom Foundation, in Stockholm,
Sweden, for that continuing research. In the last 4 years, he and his
Team's investigations have been quietly extended to include over 30
years of previously hidden data from NASA, Soviet, and Pentagon
missions to the Moon -- with startling results.

Drivel deleted. Counter point follows:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...cksalienclaims

Jeff
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