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Load and Go a Go
I don't think I mention this before, but it looks like NASA has
approved the SpaceX 'load and go' fueling plan for manned vehicles. All they'll have to do is complete the handful of flights (in 'manned' configuration, but presumably without people) required to 'man-rate' a system. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden |
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On Aug/20/2018 at 8:14 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote :
I don't think I mention this before, but it looks like NASA has approved the SpaceX 'load and go' fueling plan for manned vehicles. All they'll have to do is complete the handful of flights (in 'manned' configuration, but presumably without people) required to 'man-rate' a system. Is it possible for SpaceX to launch satellites or do something useful (maybe bring cargo to ISS) while in 'manned configuration', but without people aboard? Alain Fournier |
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Alain Fournier wrote on Mon, 20 Aug 2018
20:19:03 -0400: On Aug/20/2018 at 8:14 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote : I don't think I mention this before, but it looks like NASA has approved the SpaceX 'load and go' fueling plan for manned vehicles. All they'll have to do is complete the handful of flights (in 'manned' configuration, but presumably without people) required to 'man-rate' a system. Is it possible for SpaceX to launch satellites or do something useful (maybe bring cargo to ISS) while in 'manned configuration', but without people aboard? I assume so. Dragon V2 is supposed to be able to carry cargo rather than people and I would think just removing seats and such to switch to a cargo configuration wouldn't invalidate any 'test' flights for man rating of Falcon 9/Dragon V2 system configuration. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden |
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On 8/20/2018 8:14 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
I don't think I mention this before, but it looks like NASA has approved the SpaceX 'load and go' fueling plan for manned vehicles. All they'll have to do is complete the handful of flights (in 'manned' configuration, but presumably without people) required to 'man-rate' a system. By 'load and go' I presume you mean loading people before fueling. This is good news. The SpaceX plan seemed far less risky to me. The only people around the rocket after fuel and oxidizer are loaded are the folks in the Dragon V2, capable of getting away in a hurry. No one else need be near it. I presume it was the other way round in the older days because the complexity of the fueling operation of the three-stage Saturn and the variety of propellants used just made it to unwieldy to put crew aboard before fueling and awaiting the requisite multiple hours under risk while all that fueling took place. Let's see we had, LOX, LH2, RP-1(?), not to mention the slush O2 tanks in the Service Module, and the hypergolics and the fuel in the LEM. I can understand wanting to minimize crew time on that stack. Dave |
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JF Mezei wrote on Mon, 20 Aug 2018
23:43:50 -0400: On 2018-08-20 23:31, Fred J. McCall wrote: I assume so. Dragon V2 is supposed to be able to carry cargo rather than people and I would think just removing seats and such to switch to a cargo configuration wouldn't invalidate any 'test' flights for man rating of Falcon 9/Dragon V2 system configuration. Won't a cargo variant of Dragon 2 fly first, and test the docking software and hardware (it goes to a PMA, right, instead of CBM ?) I don't recall them saying that first test would be with a cargo variant, but it certainly could be. In terms of the crewed version, wouldn't NASA want to put instrumented dummies in there to record G forces, vibration, noise and atmosphere pressure etc? (especially for the landing). Unnecessary. Any dummies will get the same g forces as the rest of the capsule. Even if the capsule didn't have its own g sensor (it does), you could figure out g forces just by tracking it and looking at deceleration rates. WHATEVER it does on landing would have to be gentler than Soyuz. Older versions of Soyuz hit 12+ g on the way down. Aerodynamic studies indicate that Dragon V2 will peak under 3.5g. If the mass on the crewed version will be significantly different, perhaps NASA wants to emulate that mass as closely as possible for liftoff, manoeuvering in space, re-entry and slashdown. Things that don't matter just don't matter. That doesn't matter. (Carrying cargo of same mass as what the crew would have would be possible though). CG would still presumably be different. You seem to be trying to make the argument that the only way to man rate a system is to fly people on it, which seems just a bit circular. And if you DO have to go that route, just how many people do you fly, since Dragon V2 can carry up to 7 people? -- "Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory." --G. Behn |
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David Spain wrote on Mon, 20 Aug 2018 23:46:42
-0400: By 'load and go' I presume you mean loading people before fueling. Yep. This is good news. The SpaceX plan seemed far less risky to me. That's the eventual conclusion NASA came to, after investigating the crap out of structure, ground procedures, etc. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden |
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