Evidence for the existence of God

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 12:03:11 PM UTC-4, Mike Collins wrote:
wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 8:50:11 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

The minimalist mathematical religion has just two axioms which it shares
with all proselytising "our God is better than yours" religions.

Axiom 1: All people not believing in The One True Religion(TM) will burn
for eternity in hellfire.

Axiom 2: It is the duty of all true believers in The One True Religion
to minimise suffering.

They find it very easy to get from there to applying any finite amount
of torture in this world to convert the misguided souls who do not
believe in TOTR. The Spanish inquisition were particularly good at it
and had invented a version waterboarding (toca) long before the CIA.

Nothing like that is going on at my local churches. I have never heard a
preacher talk about hellfire. You must be watching too many old movies
to have come up with such a biased and hateful picture of religion.






http://www.puritanpublications.com/s...hildrens-book/

I haven't seen anything like that around. Your link is irrelevant.

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 12:30:17 PM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 13/09/2016 14:10, wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 8:50:11 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

The minimalist mathematical religion has just two axioms which it shares
with all proselytising "our God is better than yours" religions.

Axiom 1: All people not believing in The One True Religion(TM) will burn
for eternity in hellfire.

Axiom 2: It is the duty of all true believers in The One True Religion
to minimise suffering.

They find it very easy to get from there to applying any finite amount
of torture in this world to convert the misguided souls who do not
believe in TOTR. The Spanish inquisition were particularly good at it
and had invented a version waterboarding (toca) long before the CIA.

Nothing like that is going on at my local churches. I have never heard a preacher talk about hellfire.

You have never been to see Billy Graham? I am surprised.
I have. He wasn't all that impressive. I was expecting more.

None of that would have any bearing on the fact that I have never heard a preacher in a church say anything about "hellfire."

You must be watching too many old movies to have come up with such a biased and hateful picture of religion.

I don't doubt that religious folk do a lot of good things

So far, so good...

but they also
created some terrible sectarian divides that fracture communities.

None of that around here.

Many
wars have been fought because of religions and are still being fought.

No religious wars around here, either.

The problem is that there are far too many religions all claiming to be
The One True Religion and everyone else as heretics who must be saved.

Church attendance has never been mandatory in the US. Things might be different in your country.

wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 11:47:12 AM UTC-4, Mike Collins wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 6:32:36 PM UTC-4, roland c. wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:46:02 PM UTC-5, Gary Harnagel wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-6, Razzmatazz wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 10:29:02 AM UTC-5, Gary Harnagel wrote:

https://art-soulworks.com/pages/prin...peace-painting

That's a stunning portrait for an 8 year old to have painted. very
talented youngster indeed.

For me, images of Jesus have no meaning whatsoever. However, his words
are priceless gifts.

Razzy

I may be wrong, but I think these two experiences are indeed connected
and were designed by Providence (as George Washington would say) for those
whose faith has been eroded by the caustic winds of doubt.


If you are really interested in what constitutes a free nation run on
Christian principles, consider this essay by Bill Moyers, who I consider
to be a moral voice of reason, a true Christian in the classic sense:

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/1761...meri ca/#more

Let me know where you think Trump stands, what principles he espouses
(besides making oodles of money for himself).

roland c.

Trump once wrote that it isn't the -money- than motivates him, it's the
-process- whereby he makes the money that motivates him. It's the
journey, not the destination.



Was that Trump or his ghost writer?

Wouldn't matter, the idea is quite plausible.

delete

Is this the kind of man you want as president?

The ill-debeest would be far worse.



Why did you snip this bit?

Were you a fraud to look it up. There's a lot like this on the Internet.

Try to keep an open mind.

If it's the process of his businesses
that fascinate him that's even worse. Read up on the reports of those who
claim he agrees contracts and then when the work is finished claims the
work is faulty and refuses to pay the agreed amount. Then they are
threatened with legal action which he knows they can't afford (but he can).
If this is true it's the worse kind of bullying. Read about the claimed
mafia connections. Is this the kind of man you want as president?

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:35:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 10:06:06 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 04:47:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 12:49:38 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Mon, 12 Sep 2016 09:40:43 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 10:10:05 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

I don't see anything here that even remotely rises to the level of
objective, or even reasonable evidence for the existence of a god. A
girl can paint? A boy thinks he went to heaven? Two people have a
similar idea what Jesus looked like?

If it happens that a number of similar anecdotes come up - and in the majority
of those anecdotes, Jesus looks the same, and His appearance is not simply
modeled on a commonly-known portrait - that would indeed be objective evidence,
even if not ironclad.

On the other hand, if there are many similar anecdotes, and in two of them,
Jesus looks the same, yes, that isn't evidence.

Of course in this case we have only one painting, which looks very
much like a conventional representation of Jesus, and everything else
is people making claims without evidence. This is hearsay of the
lowest quality at this point.

The dude in the painting sure looks like Jesus to me.

I'll bet he does.

Who do you think he looks like, peterson?

Nobody I know.

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 09:35:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 10:08:01 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 06:10:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 8:50:11 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:

The minimalist mathematical religion has just two axioms which it shares
with all proselytising "our God is better than yours" religions.

Axiom 1: All people not believing in The One True Religion(TM) will burn
for eternity in hellfire.

Axiom 2: It is the duty of all true believers in The One True Religion
to minimise suffering.

They find it very easy to get from there to applying any finite amount
of torture in this world to convert the misguided souls who do not
believe in TOTR. The Spanish inquisition were particularly good at it
and had invented a version waterboarding (toca) long before the CIA.

Nothing like that is going on at my local churches.

Not in the Jewish ones. But it happens in all the Christian and Muslim
ones.

First, Jews don't have Churches, they have Temples and Synagogues.
Second, Muslims don't have Churches either, they have Mosques.

Jews and Muslims certainly have churches.

wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 11:47:12 AM UTC-4, Mike Collins wrote:
wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 6:32:36 PM UTC-4, roland c. wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 2:46:02 PM UTC-5, Gary Harnagel wrote:
On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 10:46:06 AM UTC-6, Razzmatazz wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 10:29:02 AM UTC-5, Gary Harnagel wrote:

https://art-soulworks.com/pages/prin...peace-painting

That's a stunning portrait for an 8 year old to have painted. very
talented youngster indeed.

For me, images of Jesus have no meaning whatsoever. However, his words
are priceless gifts.

Razzy

I may be wrong, but I think these two experiences are indeed connected
and were designed by Providence (as George Washington would say) for those
whose faith has been eroded by the caustic winds of doubt.


If you are really interested in what constitutes a free nation run on
Christian principles, consider this essay by Bill Moyers, who I consider
to be a moral voice of reason, a true Christian in the classic sense:

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/1761...meri ca/#more

Let me know where you think Trump stands, what principles he espouses
(besides making oodles of money for himself).

roland c.

Trump once wrote that it isn't the -money- than motivates him, it's the
-process- whereby he makes the money that motivates him. It's the
journey, not the destination.



Was that Trump or his ghost writer?

Wouldn't matter, the idea is quite plausible.

delete

Is this the kind of man you want as president?

The ill-debeest would be far worse.





http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...don ald-trump

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 4:47:50 AM UTC-7, wrote:

The dude in the painting sure looks like Jesus to me.

As if you, or anyone else, could possibly know. That picture looks pretty much like all the other hippy surfer portrayals as promoted throughout the ages in the west.

His actual appearance was almost certainly very different than those pictures.

Jesus, if he actually existed at all, was a Jewish man born in the middle east, and was undoubtedly olive-skinned and swarthy. He was probably somewhere about 5'6" tall, the average for that time frame, had a big nose, and wore his black curly hair and beard short, as was the custom in those times.

Read all about it here...

http://tinyurl.com/jcwley8

.... the "proof" is overwhelming.

Ding! Ding! Time for snell to start slobbering all over his keyboard...

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 8:12:57 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 06:10:00 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 10:51:06 PM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

Kaine I would take in a heartbeat. Pence scares the **** out of me,
even more than the Donald. With Pence we would have a theocracy,
and a lot of Christians would eventually be very very sorry.

Oh, come now! Did JFK produce a theocracy?

JFK understood deeply the secular nature of our country.

Nevertheless, there was much concern about JFK at the time, and his
understanding as not a consideration in voters minds.

There was indeed. Which is why Kennedy addressed the nation and made
it crystal clear that his religion did not stand in the way of
representing the people.

I didn't hear it, and it probably had little effect on those who did hear it.

There is nothing to suggest that is the case with Pence, who has admitted
to allowing his religion to guide his actions.

Your delusion about religion is clouding your judgment.

Have you not listened to anything Pence has said?

No, I haven't.

His quotes of the bible to justify foreign policy? His references to
religion is signing the odious Religious Freedom Restoration Act in
Indiana last year,

(1) I don't live in Indiana. (2) Religious freedom doesn't sound "odious"
to me.

or the extreme anti-choice laws in that state? That kind of anti-American
behavior is about as far from Kennedy as you could get.

Does it deny abortion in the case of rape, incest or mother's life threatened?
If not, then it is NOT extreme.

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 1:12:13 PM UTC-6, palsing wrote:

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 4:47:50 AM UTC-7, wrote:

The dude in the painting sure looks like Jesus to me.

As if you, or anyone else, could possibly know. That picture looks pretty
much like all the other hippy surfer portrayals as promoted throughout the
ages in the west.

Wrong. See below.

His actual appearance was almost certainly very different than those pictures.

Jesus, if he actually existed at all, was a Jewish man

Well, half Jewish.

born in the middle east, and was undoubtedly olive-skinned and swarthy.

I always wondered how T. E. Lawrence got around inspection by that Turkish
officer. The "greenish-bluish" eyes in Akiane's portrait bothered me
until I remembered that.

He was probably somewhere about 5'6" tall,

King Saul stood out in a crowd because of his height.

the average for that time frame, had a big nose, and wore his black curly
hair and beard short, as was the custom in those times.

Read all about it here...

http://tinyurl.com/jcwley8

... the "proof" is overwhelming.

Ding! Ding! Time for snell to start slobbering all over his keyboard...

Of course, what he really looks like is irrelevant to the supposed average.
The man in the portrait does indeed give a slight Jewish impression, which
has been commented on many times. I have NEVER seen a picture of Jesus
that looked like that. I found it to be, as Razzy said, stunning.

On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 3:48:27 PM UTC-6, Gary Harnagel wrote:
On Tuesday, September 13, 2016 at 8:12:57 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

His quotes of the bible to justify foreign policy? His references to
religion is signing the odious Religious Freedom Restoration Act in
Indiana last year,

(1) I don't live in Indiana.

No, but you live in the United States, and Mike Pence is running for the Vice
Presidency thereof.

(2) Religious freedom doesn't sound "odious"
to me.

Religious freedom isn't odious, but odious things can be done in its name. In
this case, the law in question removes protection from discrimination for a
certain group.

John Savard