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sci.environment censorship or deleted? Graphs justifying globalwarming theory fabricated
On Aug 16, 9:44 am, Steve Wallis
wrote: On 15 Aug, 01:17, "Mike Jr." wrote: [snip] http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-...al-warming.htm That's a very interesting and persuasive page giving counter-arguments to global warming theory. Have advocates of that theory critiqued Roy Spencer's arguments? Yes. For example, see he http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/spencers-folly/ I have read through this but I don't find their arguments persuasive. The relative humidity of the atmosphere is not 100%. Yet the oceans are a vast reservoir of water. Why isn't the atmosphere saturated? Others have complained that the satellite record does show a warming trend. But if you look at their data, http://quikscat.com/data/msu/support...3_0_to_3_2.pdf Temperature Middle Troposphere shows a trend of 0.116 K/decade (warmer) Temperature Troposphere / Stratosphere shows a trend of -0.004 K/ decade (cooler) Temperature Lower Stratosphere shows a trend of -0.345 K/decade (cooler) The trend lines span 1980-2008 (pub. July 2008). The data was published by Carl Mears who is not a Spencer fan. More common are ad hominem attacks on Spencer, a sure sign that they are having problems attacking his analysis. I know for example that I have won an argument when my opponent either starts cussing or calls me a Nazi. :-) --Mike Jr [snip] |
#12
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sci.environment censorship or deleted? Graphs justifying globalwarming theory fabricated
On 16 Aug, 22:30, "Mike Jr." wrote:
On Aug 16, 9:44 am, Steve wrote: On 15 Aug, 01:17, "Mike Jr." wrote: http://www.weatherquestions.com/Roy-...al-warming.htm That's a very interesting and persuasive page giving counter-arguments to global warming theory. * Have advocates of that theory critiqued Roy Spencer's arguments? Yes. *For example, see hehttp://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/spencers-folly/ I have read through this but I don't find their arguments persuasive. The relative humidity of the atmosphere is not 100%. *Yet the oceans are a vast reservoir of water. *Why isn't the atmosphere saturated? I have to confess that I am out of my depth with all those equations. Maybe I should bow out of this debate and leave the discussion to those who understand the physics. On the other hand, scientists have got to justify their arguments in ways that the general public can understand. With last week's New Scientist main story being about scientists predicting cooling over some if not all of the next ten years (see http://www.revolutionaryplatform.net...p?topic=10244), it is going to be particularly difficult for those who agree with global warming theory to persuade the rest of us that massive action on CO2 emissions is vital for the future of humanity. And without mass pressure from the general public, politicians are likely to take little if no action. As I've stated in previous messages, I differ from most sceptics of global warming theory in being a strong advocate of renewable forms of energy - and would even welcome nuclear power if a cheap safe non- polluting version was possible (as those using thorium may perhaps be). The earth's resources are running out (including uranium) and, if such forms of power can be used at a similar cost, it makes sense to adopt them. I cannot be completely sure that catastrophic global warming wouldn't happen, and even if I was sure, persuading most fellow environmentalists and socialists of that would be well nigh impossible. I do have something to offer scientists on both sides of the global warming debate, however. I was the main designer and sole developer of an AI/simulation language SDML (which stands for Strictly Declarative Modelling Language) based on logic - without exceptions that break the logic, unlike with the main logic programming language Prolog. I intend to publish a new version of it soon, as open source Smalltalk code so others are more likely to trust it, on the website www.sdml.org.uk. For more information in the meantime, visit www.socialiststeve.me.uk/sdml.htm. As I've pointed out, there are conflicting graphs showing temperatures between 1950 and the 1970s showing temperatures falling a lot, falling moderately, staying much the same or rising. If the code used to produce such graphs from the raw data was written in a logical language and published so that others can have more faith in the accuracy of such graphs, then it could help us come to some sort of consensus. In an earlier message, Mike Jr said "Note that only the UAH scientists calibrated their satellite data to data collected by weather balloons." I'd like to set the ball rolling (which means "get us started" for those who don't understand that English slang phrase!), by comparing the data of those scientists (including Roy Spencer) with the weather balloon data - if anybody can direct me to it (if it can be explained to me in terms I understand). [Mike directed me to a website with a lot of public data on (go to http://tamino.wordpress.com/climate-data-links) but weather balloon data doesn't seem to be there]. It might be asking a lot to expect climate modellers to recode their models (or develop new models) in SDML, then that would be ideal (if my language is fast enough)... -- Steve Wallis (Glasgow, Scotland) For important/urgent communications, please email: Blogs: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/steve-...socialist-blog, http://blog.myspace.com/galaxiasteve My socialist website: http://www.socialiststeve.me.uk My pages at MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/galaxiasteve and Bebo: http://www.bebo.com/SteveW519 Founder, Good Intentions Network: http://www.goodintentionsnetwork.org Founder, Ethical Capitalism Network: http://www.ethicalcapitalism.net Founder, Foundation for PR-based Socialism: http://www.PRsocialism.org Founder, Revolutionary Platform Network: http://www.revolutionaryplatform.net My socialist band, Red Day: http://www.red-day.net Author, "Revolution Destroyed? Have I ensured that a world socialist revolution will never happen?": http://www.revolutiondestroyed.net For discussion of the credit crunch, go to http://www.revolutionaryplatform.net....php?board=156 For discussion of 9/11 conspiracy theories, go to http://www.revolutionaryplatform.net...x.php?board=89 For discussion of the environment, including global warming scepticism, go to http://www.revolutionaryplatform.net....php?board=106 |
#13
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sci.environment censorship or deleted? Graphs justifying globalwarming theory fabricated
The short answer to why the atmosphere is not saturated with water vapor is because the atmosphere and oceans cannot establish a thermodynamic equilibrium but are dynamic systems constantly interchanging energy and mass with each other.
The lowest level of the atmosphere in contact with the oceans is pretty well saturated, but to reach the rest of the atmosphere the water vapor has to move away, driven by convection or winds. As the vapor rises it cools because the higher you go in the atmosphere, the colder it is. And, of course, as the water vapor cools it will form clouds, and eventually precipitate, so the atmosphere away from the marine boundary layer will not be saturated except in isolated places and then it rains and it is no longer saturated. You don't need equations. And yes, lots of people have looked at Roy's arguments. . . . and giggled. Eli Rabett That's a very interesting and persuasive page giving counter-arguments to global warming theory. Have advocates of that theory critiqued Roy Spencer's arguments? Yes. For example, see he http://tamino.wordpress.com/2008/07/28/spencers-folly/ I have read through this but I don't find their arguments persuasive. The relative humidity of the atmosphere is not 100%. Yet the oceans are a vast reservoir of water. Why isn't the atmosphere saturated? Others have complained that the satellite record does show a warming trend. But if you look at their data, http://quikscat.com/data/msu/support...3_0_to_3_2.pdf Temperature Middle Troposphere shows a trend of 0.116 K/decade (warmer) Temperature Troposphere / Stratosphere shows a trend of -0.004 K/ decade (cooler) Temperature Lower Stratosphere shows a trend of -0.345 K/decade (cooler) The trend lines span 1980-2008 (pub. July 2008). The data was published by Carl Mears who is not a Spencer fan. More common are ad hominem attacks on Spencer, a sure sign that they are having problems attacking his analysis. I know for example that I have won an argument when my opponent either starts cussing or calls me a Nazi. :-) --Mike Jr [snip] |
#14
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sci.environment censorship or deleted? Graphs justifying globalwarming theory fabricated
Dear elir...:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2013 12:04:46 PM UTC-7, wrote: Good work replying to a 5 year old thread, and posting off-topic in an astronomy newsgroup. The lowest level of the atmosphere in contact with the oceans is pretty well saturated, but to reach the rest of the atmosphere the water vapor has to move away, driven by convection or winds. As the vapor rises it cools because the higher you go in the atmosphere, the colder it is. And, of course, as the water vapor cools it will form clouds, and eventually precipitate, so the atmosphere away from the marine boundary layer will not be saturated except in isolated places and then it rains and it is no longer saturated. Saturation not required, increases *only* required. http://blogs.agu.org/wildwildscience...0_1280x960.png .... see the red stripe around the equator? This is trade winds lofting water vapor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_stratospheric_cloud http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctilucent_cloud .... not seen until after the Industrial Revolution. Moisture is not required to produce increased rainfall, if it is matched with increases in temperature. David A. Smith |
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