Lunar Hotel link

There's not much on the web about the forerunner hotel on Luna which will be
necessary for driving space tourism to drive Lunar development so I started a
site which has some sketches and will have some CAD drawings of the way the
first practical and economical Lunar Lodge *has* to be built.
See at members.aol.com/beanstalkr/LunarHotel/ It has a mailto: link and
your comments are solicited. cheers from Allen Meece, HAL5 Society
^
//^\\
~~~ near space elevator ~~~~
~~~members.aol.com/beanstalkr/~~~

"Allen Meece" wrote in message
...
There's not much on the web about the forerunner hotel on Luna which will
be
necessary for driving space tourism to drive Lunar development so I
started a
site which has some sketches and will have some CAD drawings of the way
the
first practical and economical Lunar Lodge *has* to be built.
See at members.aol.com/beanstalkr/LunarHotel/ It has a mailto: link
and
your comments are solicited. cheers from Allen Meece, HAL5 Society

Most of it will be windowless due to radiation shielding. You could walk
down the hall or take an elevator to a viewing area. I don't know how much
glass you could safely use in that environment. Could you replace all walls
and ceilings with glass? A train or bus could take tourists into a small
crater near the hotel. The crater would be like a wilderness area with no
buildings.

Eventually, a portion of the lunar surface would be housed inside the hotel.
That would allow tourists to run on the lunar surface without spacesuits.
There might be a small farm with dogs or goats. They would be part of your
testing to see if they survive.

The hotel would need a large garage to house cars, robots, mining and
construction equipment. The garage might be bigger than the human portion
of the hotel, depending on the amount of robot activity on the moon.

"Mike Rhino" wrote in message . ..
"Allen Meece" wrote in message
...
There's not much on the web about the forerunner hotel on Luna which will
be
necessary for driving space tourism to drive Lunar development so I
started a
site which has some sketches and will have some CAD drawings of the way
the
first practical and economical Lunar Lodge *has* to be built.
See at members.aol.com/beanstalkr/LunarHotel/ It has a mailto: link
and
your comments are solicited. cheers from Allen Meece, HAL5 Society

Most of it will be windowless due to radiation shielding. You could walk
down the hall or take an elevator to a viewing area. I don't know how much
glass you could safely use in that environment. Could you replace all walls
and ceilings with glass? A train or bus could take tourists into a small
crater near the hotel. The crater would be like a wilderness area with no
buildings.

Eventually, a portion of the lunar surface would be housed inside the hotel.
That would allow tourists to run on the lunar surface without spacesuits.
There might be a small farm with dogs or goats. They would be part of your
testing to see if they survive.

The hotel would need a large garage to house cars, robots, mining and
construction equipment. The garage might be bigger than the human portion
of the hotel, depending on the amount of robot activity on the moon.

Not half bad idea; perhaps you'll be in need of a good Lunar Space Elevator.
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm

Regards, Brad Guth IEIS~GASA / discovery of other LIFE on Venus
Alternate URL: http://guthvenus.tripod.com phone: 1-253-8576061

pamsuX (Allen Meece) wrote in message ...
There's not much on the web about the forerunner hotel on Luna which will be
necessary for driving space tourism to drive Lunar development so I started a
site which has some sketches and will have some CAD drawings of the way the
first practical and economical Lunar Lodge *has* to be built.
See at members.aol.com/beanstalkr/LunarHotel/ It has a mailto: link and
your comments are solicited. cheers from Allen Meece, HAL5 Society
^
//^\\
~~~ near space elevator ~~~~
~~~members.aol.com/beanstalkr/~~~

I took a quick look-see at your website:

1) you should only require 0.25 Bar (5 psi) of interior atmosphere.

2) with some getting used to that lesser pressure, the O2 level might
be sufficient at no more than 50%, gradually tapering off to perhaps
25%.

3) most of the structure will need to reside itself underground, under
basalt of at least one meter, though 3 meters (1024 g/cm2) would be
advisable for the long run.

4) Nighttime EVAs, via earthshine, will remain within TBI limits for a
few hours worth, certainly not days worth unless you've got something
that's fairly substantial surrounding your butt.

I've recently created the lunar space elevator (LSE-CM/ISS), as the
means to many ends, as well as the sane alternative to the spendy ESE
or bust fiasco: http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-cm-ccm-01.htm

As yet another method of paying for absolutely everything, a solar
system imaging via lunar SAR component placement, as a robotic
receiving module of the SAR aperture portion (somewhat VLA on
steroids): http://guthvenus.tripod.com/moon-sar.htm

Regards, Brad Guth IEIS~GASA / discovery of other LIFE on Venus
Alternate URL: http://guthvenus.tripod.com phone: 1-253-8576061

Brad Guth wrote:
pamsuX (Allen Meece) wrote in message ...
There's not much on the web about the forerunner hotel on Luna which will be
necessary for driving space tourism to drive Lunar development so I started a
site which has some sketches and will have some CAD drawings of the way the
first practical and economical Lunar Lodge *has* to be built.
See at members.aol.com/beanstalkr/LunarHotel/ It has a mailto: link and
your comments are solicited. cheers from Allen Meece, HAL5 Society


I took a quick look-see at your website:

1) you should only require 0.25 Bar (5 psi) of interior atmosphere.

While 5 bar works for most people, there are significant health benefits
for some at 14PSI.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
Q: What do you call a train that doesn't stop at stations?
A: Thomas the *******. -- Ben

Ian Stirling wrote:
Brad Guth wrote:
pamsuX (Allen Meece) wrote in message ...
There's not much on the web about the forerunner hotel on Luna which will be
necessary for driving space tourism to drive Lunar development so I started a
site which has some sketches and will have some CAD drawings of the way the
first practical and economical Lunar Lodge *has* to be built.
See at members.aol.com/beanstalkr/LunarHotel/ It has a mailto: link and
your comments are solicited. cheers from Allen Meece, HAL5 Society


I took a quick look-see at your website:

1) you should only require 0.25 Bar (5 psi) of interior atmosphere.

While 5 bar works for most people, there are significant health benefits
^PSI, tired.

for some at 14PSI.

--
http://inquisitor.i.am/ | | Ian Stirling.
---------------------------+-------------------------+--------------------------
"An enemy will usually have three courses open to him. Of these he will
select the fourth." -- Helmuth von Moltke

OOPS; sorry about that miscalculation of 0.25 Bar becoming 5 psi, as
obviously that's supposed to be 3.675 psi.

It's safer to disregard my poor math, as I seem to make those sorts of
unintentional mistakes all the time. If you discover something other
that's not of correct math, all you have to do is speak up.

With regard to those hotel windows:
Thick glass of 100 mm, and perhaps leaded, can be sufficient (as long
as you're not continually situated in front of that window during
lunar daytime, as the secondary radiation can still get you).
Although, it'll not only cost far less to accomplish this task
electronically, the sheer saving in delivery impact, of not having to
accommodate such sufficient glass of such mass needs to be considered.
This savings alone will more than pay for having the largest of
multiple view screens of SHDTV format, with wide spectrum cameras
capable of viewing far more detail than most any human eye can
realize, all without having to be needlessly over exposed to radiation
issues.

Regarding energy:
The LSE tether dipole energy collector, along with those nifty 50,000
tonne counter-rotating flywheels for storing said energy, combined
along with whatever PV and Sterling energy conversions, this nearly
infinite energy resource is going to provided way more than needed.

Creating almost everything necessary for your hotel, as well as for
the LSE, can be derived from lunar basalt, and with the energy to
create such terrific products is essentially available for the taking.

Even the 1400 watts/m2 of solar influx, if concentrated at merely
100:1, that's contributing at least 462 kw per massive PV unit. If the
more robust Sterling conversion method is utilized, just the working
thermal differential of nearly 500°F should be hard to pass up, not to
mention what a 1000:1 solar collector that's delivering 14 MW/m2 and
of a sufficient thermal sink would create an output of perhaps 10 MW
due to the truly horrific thermal differentials, whereas this sterling
thermal sink should in part if not entirely resolve the HVAC needs of
the hotel and then some.

With reasonable thermal insulation (R-256, and that's another good
reason for not having windows), and CO2--CO/O2 taking place, an
overall budget of perhaps 10 kw/individual might be a good starting
off point. Accommodating 100 folks will therefore demand roughly 1 MW,
that's continuous, as in 24 MWH/Earth day. With a good deal of
improved technology, that energy/person budget factor can be reduced
to as little as 1 KW/person, especially if your hotel accommodates
1000, as the more folks the less energy per person gets involved.

Regards, Brad Guth IEIS~GASA / discovery of other LIFE on Venus
Alternate URL: http://guthvenus.tripod.com phone: 1-253-8576061

Ian Stirling wrote:

While 5 psi works for most people, there are significant health benefits
for some at 14PSI.

I remember O'Neill suggested 1/2 pressure with twice the percentage of oxygen.
Are you saying that might be a mistake?

I've since seen others suggest even thinner atmospheres with even higher O2
percentages. It makes sense to me that that past a point you've gone too far,
but I'd like a better handle on where those limits are.

--


Regards,
Mike Combs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
We should ask, critically and with appeal to the numbers, whether the
best site for a growing advancing industrial society is Earth, the
Moon, Mars, some other planet, or somewhere else entirely.
Surprisingly, the answer will be inescapable - the best site is
"somewhere else entirely."

Gerard O'Neill - "The High Frontier"

In article ,
Mike Combs wrote:
While 5 psi works for most people, there are significant health benefits
for some at 14PSI.

I remember O'Neill suggested 1/2 pressure with twice the percentage of oxygen.
Are you saying that might be a mistake?

Particularly when considering long-term effects, there's a severe shortage
of biomedical data on intermediate compositions. You *don't* want to use
pure oxygen; it is a fire hazard even at low pressures, and over long
periods it is unhealthy. But just what's usable in between is less clear.

One reason for going with a higher pressure is air-cooled electronics:
consumer gear, computers, appliance controls, etc etc. You really don't
want to have to custom-build all the electronics for a hotel or colony.
Equipment built for Earth use typically is rated for a maximum altitude of
about 3km, which is circa 10psi.

I've since seen others suggest even thinner atmospheres with even higher O2
percentages. It makes sense to me that that past a point you've gone too far,
but I'd like a better handle on where those limits are.

For fire hazards, there is somewhat more data. Industrial fire prevention
recognizes a concept of "atmosphere of increased burning rate", which
triggers significant extra precautions and higher insurance rates. If you
want to avoid that, while maintaining sea-level oxygen partial pressure,
about 12psi is as low as you can go. (Fire is a balance between heat
generation and heat loss; thinner atmospheres do not carry heat away as
rapidly, so they permit more intense fires.)

A reasonable choice, if you wanted to minimize pressure while avoiding
these various problems, would be 11psi with a slightly higher percentage
of oxygen than normal air. That's the pressure at 2.5km, which is where
Santa Fe, New Mexico is, so it's definitely okay for long-term breathing.
Adding a bit more oxygen will accommodate mild exertion without long
acclimation. The resulting oxygen partial pressure will still be somewhat
below sea-level normal, but that isn't a big problem and keeps you out of
the "increased burning rate" category. And off-the-shelf air-cooled
electronics will still be usable.
--
MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer
pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. |

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Combs wrote:
While 5 psi works for most people, there are significant health
benefits
for some at 14PSI.

I remember O'Neill suggested 1/2 pressure with twice the percentage of
oxygen.
Are you saying that might be a mistake?

If your structure is strong enough to support radiation shielding, it might
be strong enough to handle sea level air pressure. If you can produce a lot
of either iron or aluminum from local resources, then you can use a fair
amount of metal in your structure. I wonder if pure oxygen would cause iron
to corrode faster.