Russia upping the price of Soyuz flights in 2012?

David Spain wrote:
Pat Flannery writes:

That would imply that we could come up with a rocket/capsule combo that could
launch astronauts at a price of under 51 million per head, which is pretty
doubtful, particularly given the far lower labor costs in Russia and the fact
that R&D costs for the US rocket and capsule would have to amortized over the
time scale between entry into service and the end of the ISS in 2020

At a price of $290 USD per share and only 1.12 million shares outstanding
NASA could offer a 20% premium over current share price at $350 per share
($50 above Energia all time share price peak) and BUY Energia for an outlay
of only $392 million!

All kidding aside, the Russian (or Chinese) price is irrelevant once a
US commercial provider becomes available. There are "buy American"
provisions in the law. SpaceX and the others don't have to match
Russia's price. Once Dragon (or any other US commercial vehicle) is
available and meets NASA's requirements, NASA will buy it and stop
buying Soyuz/Progress. Period.

David Spain wrote:
"Val Kraut" writes:

There's a Constellation emblem with constellation replaced by cancellation
showing up on the net. Someone should come up with an astronaught mission
patch - some poor soul staring up at the sky with his hands in his pocket
wearing a ball and chain painted to look like the earth.


New patch: 'Containeration'

Catchy don't you think?

Here's that emblem BTW:
http://selenianboondocks.com/wp-cont...ncellation.jpg

Pat

All kidding aside, the Russian (or Chinese) price is irrelevant once a
US commercial provider becomes available. There are "buy American"
provisions in the law. SpaceX and the others don't have to match
Russia's price. Once Dragon (or any other US commercial vehicle) is
available and meets NASA's requirements, NASA will buy it and stop
buying Soyuz/Progress. Period.

isnt buy american illegal? given things like NAFTA and all the other
free trade laws?

Bottom line why should america produce ANYTHING, food, machinery,
customer support, manufactuiring, ANYTHING

I ask this serious question because thats certinally the way we are
headed.

Heck china has started building tract homes to be shipped to the US
and assembled on site. Theres talk they may even send the workers to
put the homes together.........

Like mexico sends mexican trucks and drivers to deliver stuff all thru
our country.

David Spain wrote:

It will probably be a long time before anything that big gets built in space
again, and the Russian plans for a follow-up space station look a lot more
like a scaled-down Mir than a ISS: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/opsek.html

You notice how eerily similar their 'next-generation transport ship' looks to
Orion?

They've been playing around with all sorts of Soyuz replacement designs:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/acts.html
With the problem, as usual, being lack of funding to get beyond the
design stage.

Pat

Pat Flannery writes:

They've been playing around with all sorts of Soyuz replacement designs:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/acts.html
With the problem, as usual, being lack of funding to get beyond the design
stage.

Umm, not to be a PITA or anything, but you notice something unusual in that
picture? Like something missing? Like something to do with heat?

?

Dave

wrote in message
...

All kidding aside, the Russian (or Chinese) price is irrelevant once a
US commercial provider becomes available. There are "buy American"
provisions in the law. SpaceX and the others don't have to match
Russia's price. Once Dragon (or any other US commercial vehicle) is
available and meets NASA's requirements, NASA will buy it and stop
buying Soyuz/Progress. Period.

isnt buy american illegal? given things like NAFTA and all the other
free trade laws?


No, not for government items.

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

On Feb 12, 9:17�am, "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)"
wrote:
wrote in message

...



All kidding aside, the Russian (or Chinese) price is irrelevant once a
US commercial provider becomes available. There are "buy American"
provisions in the law. SpaceX and the others don't have to match
Russia's price. Once Dragon (or any other US commercial vehicle) is
available and meets NASA's requirements, NASA will buy it and stop
buying Soyuz/Progress. Period.

isnt buy american illegal? given things like NAFTA and all the other
free trade laws?

No, not for government items.

--
Greg Moore
Ask me about lily, an RPI based CMC.

Now why should that be?

Not that I think the flood of foreign products into our country
decimating entire industries is good.. really its bad.

We are losing the ability to feed clothe and supply our own needs, to
save a buck and putting a large number out of work

David Spain wrote:
Pat Flannery writes:

They've been playing around with all sorts of Soyuz replacement designs:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/acts.html
With the problem, as usual, being lack of funding to get beyond the design
stage.

Umm, not to be a PITA or anything, but you notice something unusual in that
picture? Like something missing? Like something to do with heat?

Assuming you mean a heatshield and not radiators*, in this painting the
return module is shown with its sides covered with shuttle-style tiles:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/ppts.html
There is a Soyuz-style jettisonable heatshield on the bottom:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/image...ield_sep_1.jpg
That uncovers the landing legs and landing rockets.
I'll say one thing for them, and that is that they have real balls to
have the normal landing be entirely via rockets instead of rockets and
parachutes...although the emergency landing system uses a parachute,
leaving one wondering what the advantages of this approach is:
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/image...sion_sep_1.jpg
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/image...bottom_r_1.jpg
Unless you crank up the landing rockets at fairly high altitude to make
sure they are working right, you will be too low to jettison the bottom
part of the spacecraft and use the parachute.
You will also descend on your parachute straight into the fire created
when the bottom part of the spacecraft with the landing legs and rockets
explodes on impact directly under you.
Just like Orion with its airbags, if this thing becomes reality that
whole legs/landing rocket system will probably be the first thing to be
deleted, and it will land under a parachute with terminal rocket
braking, just like a Soyuz.

*The radiators apparently wrap around the outside of the propulsion module.

Pat

In sci.space.history Fred J. McCall wrote:
I just find it 'interesting' that now that we *need* them, the
Russians are charging us more per seat than they ever charged the
'tourists' they brought up. Even more 'interesting' is that they
want to INCREASE the price in 2013.

Insert name of UberCapitalist like Obi Wan here taught them well...

rick jones
--
firebug n, the idiot who tosses a lit cigarette out his car window
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

Fred J. McCall wrote:

I just find it 'interesting' that now that we *need* them, the
Russians are charging us more per seat than they ever charged the
'tourists' they brought up. Even more 'interesting' is that they want
to INCREASE the price in 2013.

Yup, they took to monopoly capitalism like a fish to water.
When you have them by the balls, their dollars and cents will follow.
Mr. West's visit to the land of the Bolsheviks did not go as expected... :-D

Pat