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Ares IV?!
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Ares IV?!
Pat Flannery wrote:
Sounds like the Jupiter from Direct: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._ares_1_a.html Actually, it sounds to me like YET ANOTHER unaffordable, unsustainable, solid rocket booster powered EXPENDABLE heavy lift launch vehicle. We can't have enough of those, right? Pat |
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Ares IV?!
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:32:13 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote: Sounds like the Jupiter from Direct: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._ares_1_a.html Except the upper stage is the narrow-diameter Ares I variety instead of the same diameter as the core. But this is a step in the right direction. Brian |
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Ares IV?!
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:42:48 -0500, kT wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote: Sounds like the Jupiter from Direct: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._ares_1_a.html Actually, it sounds to me like YET ANOTHER unaffordable, unsustainable, solid rocket booster powered EXPENDABLE heavy lift launch vehicle. We can't have enough of those, right? Unaffordable? So we haven't been launching SRBs and ET tankage for the last 28 years? I kinda thought we were. :-) But now, the SRBs and ET tankage actually have the potential of sending people (or really heavy unmanned missions) beyond LEO. At least the NASA brass has come to its senses (per rumor) and FINALLY has accepted what nearly everyone else has been saying for 3 or 4 years now: that they have exactly one chance to build a new rocket, and they'd better not waste it on a dog like Ares I. They realized they can only afford to build ONE new rocket, and the looming budget cuts forced them to pick a cheaper design than the behemoth they wanted. If they don't screw up anymore (a big 'if') this system may actually work. It's about damned time. I just hope the Ares project managers are given a spatula and sent to their local McDonalds for jobs more commensurate with their abilities. But please, not MY local McDonalds. I don't want "quarter pounders" that weigh 1/8 lb., cost $5 and make me wait 3 hours for it. Brian |
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Ares IV?!
Brian Thorn wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2009 10:42:48 -0500, kT wrote: Pat Flannery wrote: Sounds like the Jupiter from Direct: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._ares_1_a.html Actually, it sounds to me like YET ANOTHER unaffordable, unsustainable, solid rocket booster powered EXPENDABLE heavy lift launch vehicle. We can't have enough of those, right? Unaffordable? So we haven't been launching SRBs and ET tankage for the last 28 years? I kinda thought we were. :-) And complaining about cost the entire time, while simultaneously discarding the ET tankage after boosting it 98% of the way to orbit. But now, the SRBs and ET tankage actually have the potential of sending people (or really heavy unmanned missions) beyond LEO. Actually, no, you'd need an upper stage for that. The entire thrust of my COTS proposal is that core tanks can be boosted all of the way to orbit with the SSMEs and *ANY* side mounted booster. At least the NASA brass has come to its senses (per rumor) and FINALLY has accepted what nearly everyone else has been saying for 3 or 4 years now: that they have exactly one chance to build a new rocket, Who said that? If that was true, their chance is *LONG* over. and they'd better not waste it on a dog like Ares I. They realized they can only afford to build ONE new rocket, and the looming budget cuts forced them to pick a cheaper design than the behemoth they wanted. If they don't screw up anymore (a big 'if') this system may actually work. They can't *AFFORD* to build *ANY* large expendable SRB assisted rocket, and they've demonstrated themselves incompetent independent of funding. It's about damned time. I just hope the Ares project managers are given a spatula and sent to their local McDonalds for jobs more commensurate with their abilities. Any new Ares project managers would screw that one up too. Their launch vehicle architectural design paradigm is both obsolete and even when it was current, it is fundamentally faulty to the *core*. But please, not MY local McDonalds. I don't want "quarter pounders" that weigh 1/8 lb., cost $5 and make me wait 3 hours for it. Only an idiot would by and eat that kind of crap. The same idiots that bought into Ares. Brian |
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Ares IV?!
On Jul 25, 8:42*am, kT wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote: Sounds like the Jupiter from Direct: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._ares_1_a.html Actually, it sounds to me like YET ANOTHER unaffordable, unsustainable, solid rocket booster powered EXPENDABLE heavy lift launch vehicle. We can't have enough of those, right? Pat There should be zero R&D related to the 100% reliable Saturn V, so why waste time and spendy R&D on anything else? ~ BG |
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Ares IV?!
Brian Thorn wrote: Except the upper stage is the narrow-diameter Ares I variety instead of the same diameter as the core. But this is a step in the right direction. Although very easy to do, the alternative side-mount cargo/crew pod doesn't sound good from a foam shedding or escape after a SRB failure point of view. I think the Jupiter-DIRECT approach is probably the the best mix of simplicity, cargo capacity, and safety. Its much increased lifting capacity over Ares 1means a more capable LES can be installed and avoid the fratricide problem the Air Force found by getting the Orion a lot further away in the event of a abort. One thing that no one talks about is any future plans for space stations after ISS... if there aren't going to be any future stations, then all this effort to build something to carry crew and cargo to LEO is pretty much a waste of time, as it will come on-line around the time the ISS gets decommissioned (2015-2020 at the latest). Pat |
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Ares IV?!
On Jul 26, 12:29*am, BradGuth wrote:
On Jul 25, 8:42*am, kT wrote: Pat Flannery wrote: Sounds like the Jupiter from Direct: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._ares_1_a.html Actually, it sounds to me like YET ANOTHER unaffordable, unsustainable, solid rocket booster powered EXPENDABLE heavy lift launch vehicle. We can't have enough of those, right? Pat There should be zero R&D related to the 100% reliable Saturn V, so why waste time and spendy R&D on anything else? *~ BG |
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Ares IV?!
On Jul 26, 12:29*am, BradGuth wrote:
On Jul 25, 8:42*am, kT wrote: Pat Flannery wrote: Sounds like the Jupiter from Direct: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._ares_1_a.html Actually, it sounds to me like YET ANOTHER unaffordable, unsustainable, solid rocket booster powered EXPENDABLE heavy lift launch vehicle. We can't have enough of those, right? Pat There should be zero R&D related to the 100% reliable Saturn V, so why waste time and spendy R&D on anything else? *~ BG zero R&D?? It simply cannot be zero, or even very low, or low. 1000's of vendors and their products used to build Saturn V are gone. The solutions those products offered would all need to be re-solved. |
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Ares IV?!
On Jul 26, 9:06*am, John wrote:
On Jul 26, 12:29*am, BradGuth wrote: On Jul 25, 8:42*am, kT wrote: Pat Flannery wrote: Sounds like the Jupiter from Direct: http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/20..._ares_1_a.html Actually, it sounds to me like YET ANOTHER unaffordable, unsustainable, solid rocket booster powered EXPENDABLE heavy lift launch vehicle. We can't have enough of those, right? Pat There should be zero R&D related to the 100% reliable Saturn V, so why waste time and spendy R&D on anything else? *~ BG *zero R&D?? It simply cannot be zero, or even very low, or low. 1000's of vendors and their products used to build Saturn V are gone. The solutions those products offered would all need to be re-solved. But the public has already paid for everything, including all of the required R&D and extensive infrastructure to boot. Are you saying we got summarily ripped off? A group of dysfunctional 5th graders could have done a better job of saving all the R&D documentation, as well as whatever working prototypes. What's your pathetic excuse this time, and for all the times before and ever since? Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet” |
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