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  #1  
Old January 29th 04, 01:40 PM
Hobbs aka McDaniel
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Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

Even if ET have never sent a probe to our solar system,
they may have sent fast moving probes to other stars
and systems and those probes could have since drifted
into our system. The challenge is how do you find an
alien probe that's been inactive for perhaps eons?
Especially since we have no clue what such a probe
should look like either when it was launched or after
it has been pelted by meteorites for eons.

I think one relatively easy way to search for these
hypothetical probes would be to use a combination of
radar, lasers and visual spectrum telescopes. If
a probe has a large radio dish then when it is in
a certain orientation to earth (say within 40 degrees
of pointing at earth) it's radar signature will be
louder than that of many random shapes the same
size. Visual observation can be used to determine
the size (a guess can be made). A similar principal
can be used if the hypothetical probe has optics
for sending messages by laser. A powerful laser beam
sent from earth will be reflected more strongly from
the optics of a probe when the probe is in a certain
alignment - although obviously the return signal will
be relatively weak.

These search methods can be tested on known probes
that were launched from earth.

If it's a valid method for finding our own probes
then it might be useful in finding ETI probes under
the usual assumption that ET's communication technology
is similar to our own (or was when one or more of
their probes was launched).

Opinions?

-McDaniel
  #2  
Old January 29th 04, 08:13 PM
Jonathan Silverlight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

In message , Hobbs aka
McDaniel writes
Even if ET have never sent a probe to our solar system,
they may have sent fast moving probes to other stars
and systems and those probes could have since drifted
into our system. The challenge is how do you find an
alien probe that's been inactive for perhaps eons?
Especially since we have no clue what such a probe
should look like either when it was launched or after
it has been pelted by meteorites for eons.

I think one relatively easy way to search for these
hypothetical probes would be to use a combination of
radar, lasers and visual spectrum telescopes. If
a probe has a large radio dish then when it is in
a certain orientation to earth (say within 40 degrees
of pointing at earth) it's radar signature will be
louder than that of many random shapes the same
size.


I suspect that the problem is that there are hundreds of thousands of
objects in the solar system the same apparent size (say 100 meters) as
your hypothetical probe. The fourth-power rule determining the return
signal from an object at an unknown location makes radar a very poor
tool for searching for such objects, which is why most searches for NEOs
use visual methods.
Radar has been used to map asteroids at known positions, and to look for
relatively nearby terrestrial probes when their status was uncertain
(such as SOHO), but needs enormous output power.
And the return signal is the only way to tell the size of an object
unless we already know its albedo, or it has some unusual polarisation
properties.
Anyway, I suspect that if ET is in the solar system he is hiding in the
anti-Earth Lagrange point, shielded from view by the Sun!
--
Save the Hubble Space Telescope!
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.
  #3  
Old January 29th 04, 08:13 PM
Jonathan Silverlight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

In message , Hobbs aka
McDaniel writes
Even if ET have never sent a probe to our solar system,
they may have sent fast moving probes to other stars
and systems and those probes could have since drifted
into our system. The challenge is how do you find an
alien probe that's been inactive for perhaps eons?
Especially since we have no clue what such a probe
should look like either when it was launched or after
it has been pelted by meteorites for eons.

I think one relatively easy way to search for these
hypothetical probes would be to use a combination of
radar, lasers and visual spectrum telescopes. If
a probe has a large radio dish then when it is in
a certain orientation to earth (say within 40 degrees
of pointing at earth) it's radar signature will be
louder than that of many random shapes the same
size.


I suspect that the problem is that there are hundreds of thousands of
objects in the solar system the same apparent size (say 100 meters) as
your hypothetical probe. The fourth-power rule determining the return
signal from an object at an unknown location makes radar a very poor
tool for searching for such objects, which is why most searches for NEOs
use visual methods.
Radar has been used to map asteroids at known positions, and to look for
relatively nearby terrestrial probes when their status was uncertain
(such as SOHO), but needs enormous output power.
And the return signal is the only way to tell the size of an object
unless we already know its albedo, or it has some unusual polarisation
properties.
Anyway, I suspect that if ET is in the solar system he is hiding in the
anti-Earth Lagrange point, shielded from view by the Sun!
--
Save the Hubble Space Telescope!
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.
  #4  
Old February 2nd 04, 03:28 PM
Keith Larson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

Hi Everyone

I am new to this newsgroup and figured I would chime in.

What about looking on the moon? The moon might be a great place for ET
to set up and observe from a distance.

As an amateur astronomer I am asked many many times if we can see the
Lunar Lander or the flag. This is of course beyond todays optics
(especially mine) but glint reflections are easy. Just consider the
retroreflector that was left behind by Apollo. Radar on the other hand
should be able to resolve something like the LEM, and presumably
something left behind by ET.

So why not start with a systematic search of the moon?

Best regards
Keith Larson


  #5  
Old February 2nd 04, 03:28 PM
Keith Larson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

Hi Everyone

I am new to this newsgroup and figured I would chime in.

What about looking on the moon? The moon might be a great place for ET
to set up and observe from a distance.

As an amateur astronomer I am asked many many times if we can see the
Lunar Lander or the flag. This is of course beyond todays optics
(especially mine) but glint reflections are easy. Just consider the
retroreflector that was left behind by Apollo. Radar on the other hand
should be able to resolve something like the LEM, and presumably
something left behind by ET.

So why not start with a systematic search of the moon?

Best regards
Keith Larson


  #6  
Old February 2nd 04, 08:00 PM
Jonathan Silverlight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

In message , Keith Larson
writes
Hi Everyone

I am new to this newsgroup and figured I would chime in.

What about looking on the moon? The moon might be a great place for ET
to set up and observe from a distance.

As an amateur astronomer I am asked many many times if we can see the
Lunar Lander or the flag. This is of course beyond todays optics
(especially mine) but glint reflections are easy. Just consider the
retroreflector that was left behind by Apollo. Radar on the other hand
should be able to resolve something like the LEM, and presumably
something left behind by ET.

So why not start with a systematic search of the moon?


Some time in the next 20 years we will see a two-meter-resolution survey
of the Moon, as is now being done for Mars. If not by the US, by the
Indians or Japanese. Perhaps you just need to be patient :-)
But there's still the problem of deciding if that little blob a couple
of pixels across is interesting, and the other problem of imaging inside
the dark craters at the poles. Radar mapping at resolution of a few
meters calls for some very high-powered equipment.
Apparently one possibility has been examined and no evidence found. The
magnetic field of the Moon has been mapped and there was no sign of TMA
-1 :-( But don't forget that in the original story the Sentinel was
found by someone who went and looked. That could take years - or
decades.
You've probably found by now that some people think ET is already on the
Moon (Blair Cuspids, lunar spires, "Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon",
tracks, etc. etc.) and that the Authorities are covering it up. That's
presumably done by letting people write books about it, create web
sites, and do lecture tours.
--
Save the Hubble Space Telescope!
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.
  #7  
Old February 2nd 04, 08:00 PM
Jonathan Silverlight
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

In message , Keith Larson
writes
Hi Everyone

I am new to this newsgroup and figured I would chime in.

What about looking on the moon? The moon might be a great place for ET
to set up and observe from a distance.

As an amateur astronomer I am asked many many times if we can see the
Lunar Lander or the flag. This is of course beyond todays optics
(especially mine) but glint reflections are easy. Just consider the
retroreflector that was left behind by Apollo. Radar on the other hand
should be able to resolve something like the LEM, and presumably
something left behind by ET.

So why not start with a systematic search of the moon?


Some time in the next 20 years we will see a two-meter-resolution survey
of the Moon, as is now being done for Mars. If not by the US, by the
Indians or Japanese. Perhaps you just need to be patient :-)
But there's still the problem of deciding if that little blob a couple
of pixels across is interesting, and the other problem of imaging inside
the dark craters at the poles. Radar mapping at resolution of a few
meters calls for some very high-powered equipment.
Apparently one possibility has been examined and no evidence found. The
magnetic field of the Moon has been mapped and there was no sign of TMA
-1 :-( But don't forget that in the original story the Sentinel was
found by someone who went and looked. That could take years - or
decades.
You've probably found by now that some people think ET is already on the
Moon (Blair Cuspids, lunar spires, "Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon",
tracks, etc. etc.) and that the Authorities are covering it up. That's
presumably done by letting people write books about it, create web
sites, and do lecture tours.
--
Save the Hubble Space Telescope!
Remove spam and invalid from address to reply.
  #8  
Old February 2nd 04, 09:56 PM
Alfred A. Aburto Jr.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

"Keith Larson" wrote in message
...
Hi Everyone

I am new to this newsgroup and figured I would chime in.

What about looking on the moon? The moon might be a great place for ET
to set up and observe from a distance.

As an amateur astronomer I am asked many many times if we can see the
Lunar Lander or the flag. This is of course beyond todays optics
(especially mine) but glint reflections are easy. Just consider the
retroreflector that was left behind by Apollo. Radar on the other hand
should be able to resolve something like the LEM, and presumably
something left behind by ET.

So why not start with a systematic search of the moon?


Ah! This brings back old memories!
I remember as a young person being fascinated by the Moon and
particularly by a book by H.P. Wilkins called "Our Moon" (I still
have this book, dated 1954). He had a chapter tiltled "Mysteries
of the Moon" where he spoke of mysterious happenings on the
Moon ("flashes of light", "glints", "outgasing", and perhaps
observing of meteor strikes on the Moon). For example here
is a sentence from the book: "On September 26, 1788,
Schroeter, while observing the crescent moon, saw a whitish
bright spot, just like a star, suddenly shine out in the earthshine
among the peaks of the Alps to the southeast of the crater Plato".
Schroeter and others looked for this phenomena again but it
was not seen by them again. Then on 01 Jan 1865 it was spotted
again by another astronomer named Grover. I don't think it has
been sighted again. Who knows what it was! But certainly if
it was real then a high resolution survey of the moon might show
evidence of something odd going on (if a result of ETI ...). Who
knows, perhaps, there really is a "monolith" waiting there on the
moon for us to find :-)

There is still alot of interest, among amateur astronomers, of
transient phenomena occuring on the moon. There is also the
"lunatic fringe" (well adapted terminology of course. Lunar
Transient Phenomena (LTP) is discussed (probably) in all
books regarding the moon. See for example "Observing
the Moon", by Gerald North, Cambridge University Press,
ISBN 0 521 62273 3 (hardback).

Well, in summary, yes, it is a good idea to do a very detailed
systematic search of the Moon ...
Al



Best regards
Keith Larson




  #9  
Old February 2nd 04, 09:56 PM
Alfred A. Aburto Jr.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

"Keith Larson" wrote in message
...
Hi Everyone

I am new to this newsgroup and figured I would chime in.

What about looking on the moon? The moon might be a great place for ET
to set up and observe from a distance.

As an amateur astronomer I am asked many many times if we can see the
Lunar Lander or the flag. This is of course beyond todays optics
(especially mine) but glint reflections are easy. Just consider the
retroreflector that was left behind by Apollo. Radar on the other hand
should be able to resolve something like the LEM, and presumably
something left behind by ET.

So why not start with a systematic search of the moon?


Ah! This brings back old memories!
I remember as a young person being fascinated by the Moon and
particularly by a book by H.P. Wilkins called "Our Moon" (I still
have this book, dated 1954). He had a chapter tiltled "Mysteries
of the Moon" where he spoke of mysterious happenings on the
Moon ("flashes of light", "glints", "outgasing", and perhaps
observing of meteor strikes on the Moon). For example here
is a sentence from the book: "On September 26, 1788,
Schroeter, while observing the crescent moon, saw a whitish
bright spot, just like a star, suddenly shine out in the earthshine
among the peaks of the Alps to the southeast of the crater Plato".
Schroeter and others looked for this phenomena again but it
was not seen by them again. Then on 01 Jan 1865 it was spotted
again by another astronomer named Grover. I don't think it has
been sighted again. Who knows what it was! But certainly if
it was real then a high resolution survey of the moon might show
evidence of something odd going on (if a result of ETI ...). Who
knows, perhaps, there really is a "monolith" waiting there on the
moon for us to find :-)

There is still alot of interest, among amateur astronomers, of
transient phenomena occuring on the moon. There is also the
"lunatic fringe" (well adapted terminology of course. Lunar
Transient Phenomena (LTP) is discussed (probably) in all
books regarding the moon. See for example "Observing
the Moon", by Gerald North, Cambridge University Press,
ISBN 0 521 62273 3 (hardback).

Well, in summary, yes, it is a good idea to do a very detailed
systematic search of the Moon ...
Al



Best regards
Keith Larson




  #10  
Old February 2nd 04, 10:00 PM
Hobbs aka McDaniel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Search for ET Probes

Keith Larson wrote in message ...
Hi Everyone

I am new to this newsgroup and figured I would chime in.

What about looking on the moon? The moon might be a great place for ET
to set up and observe from a distance.

As an amateur astronomer I am asked many many times if we can see the
Lunar Lander or the flag. This is of course beyond todays optics
(especially mine) but glint reflections are easy. Just consider the
retroreflector that was left behind by Apollo. Radar on the other hand
should be able to resolve something like the LEM, and presumably
something left behind by ET.

So why not start with a systematic search of the moon?


The thing is that for you to find an intact probe on the moon
it would require that probe to have made a controlled landing.
I'd think that the odds of aliens setting a probe down there are
very tiny compared to the chance of a dead probe that just happened
to be cruising in our neighborood of the galaxy being captured
by the sun's gravity.

Chances of us finding and recognizing a probe that is not intact
is zero, I think... since we have no clue what such a probe
would look like absent obvious things like a radio dish or
optics.

Having said that, it'd be interesting to search the moon if we
had a good idea of what to look for. For instance if we found
a patch of the moon that was covered in tiny bits of some
material that required intelligence to form it that'd be
interesting

-McDaniel
 




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