New to hobby. Questions about mars..eyepieces..focusing..saturn..gps

"DJRumpy" wrote in message
om...

Mars:
This planet is exteremely bright, almost to the point of blowing away
any detail (not that there seems to be much there to begin with). I
can easily make out the polar cap, and the darker areas on the surface
(lava flows?), but only vague outlines/shadows of these. Is this
normal? Suggestions? I do have a set of basic color filters that came
with the Celestron eyepiece set that I bought with the scope.

You cannot see lava flows, craters, or canyons from earth. They were
discovered from space probes. All you will see is a vague set of shadings
where the Martian sand is of different colors. The red filter will help.

Focusing:
The focus knob is too sensitive. The slightest touch, even with the
25mm eyepiece, seems to move the focus too far to one side, or the
other. I have to touch it, wait for the scope to settle, and then look
to see if it's improved, or gotten worse. I've read a little about
microfocusers, and cable extenders. Can anyone suggest a good one? It
doesn't need to be powered.

Assuming Celestron hasn't changed the design of the focuser all of a sudden,
it's nice and smooth, and all you really need to do is practice. Focusing
on stars is easier than focusing on planets. Most people don't feel the
need for gearing it down. Note that because of the way it works, there's a
bit of slack (backlash) in it.

Eyepieces:
I bought an eyepiece set (celestron) with the scope from the dealer.
It also came with a basic filter set, 33-4 mm, and one 2x barlow. The
33mm and the 25mm have a nice wide view. The others range from smaller
than dime sized to pointless.

Sounds like your eye isn't close enough to them. They're designed to be
used with your glasses off. Is that what's going on? You can get
long-eye-relief eyepieces (e.g. Vixen Lanthanum, or Tele Vue Radian) that
give you the full field of view with your glasses on.

I have no idea if they are decent
eyepieces or not. The scope uses a 1.25" eyepiece. Should I look at a
2" adapter? Also, who makes a good midrange priced eyepiece? I don't
want cheap, and I don't want to break the bank either. Willing to pay
$50-$250 per eyepiece if necessary.

See my telescope book... there's more to this than can be answered in a
short newsgroup message. The short answer is that, optically, your
eyepieces are fine. (I assume they are Plossl type.) If you want the best
that money can buy, Tele Vue Radians are good, at about $250 each. I
suggest a 25mm, 14mm, and 8mm (that's the set I use on a very similar
telescope). Your 25mm Plossl is probably satisfactory.

Saturn:
Finally something other than mars to look at! (do the quiet times
always last this long?). I pulled the scope out before heading out to
work this morning. Saturn was awesome. Much bigger than mars. The
rings crystal clear, and some banding in the atmosphere easily
visible. No problems here...just throwing it in because I'm excited

GPS:
I also bought the GPS for my scope. I'm somewhat disappointed in the
accuracy. I bought it because I can't recognize all of the star
configurations, especially in the late morning hours (I'm fairly good
now at the early evening). The gps may give me a general look at true
north, but the first star it selects for me to finalize (?) the
alignment is typically anywhere from dead on, to 5 degrees off.
Sometimes the GPS goes completely wonky, and points south instead of
north or other craziness like that. Is this normal? Is there something
I should be doing that I'm not?

GPS doesn't tell the telescope where the stars are. It tells the telescope
where it is on earth. You still have to find the stars. A 5 degree error
has NO SIGNIFICANCE as long as you go ahead and center the star accurately;
after you have centered the stars, that's how the telescope knows where the
rest of the sky is.

In my opinion, trying to get the telescope to find the stars, before you
have shown it any of them, is something of a wild goose chase. The
telescope can't see them and doesn't really know where they are, although by
assuming that its base is perfectly level, that it was in perfect home
position, etc., it can try to find them for you.

Sorry for all of the questions, and I appreciate any responses.

Welcome to amateur astronomy! See www.covingtoninnovations.com/computel.


--
Clear skies,

Michael Covington -- www.covingtoninnovations.com
Author, Astrophotography for the Amateur
and (new) How to Use a Computerized Telescope

"DJRumpy" wrote in message
om...
I just got my first scope a few weeks ago. A celestron Nextstar 8i.
After a few weeks of viewing I have a few questions. Let me just say
that I live in the extremely light poluted Dallas metroplex area, so
deep sky objects justs aren't a very good option, although I have
managed to see the cats eye nebula (looked gray..no color), and
Andromeda (gray again..more like a smudge on my lense, except it
didn't move with the scope).

We're in the same boat, in that I also live in a heavily light polluted
area. I live about 20 from midtown NYC. In spite of this, I can get away
from the city lights by driving about 2 hours, and it is more than worth the
drive.



Mars:
This planet is exteremely bright, almost to the point of blowing away
any detail (not that there seems to be much there to begin with). I
can easily make out the polar cap, and the darker areas on the surface
(lava flows?), but only vague outlines/shadows of these. Is this
normal? Suggestions? I do have a set of basic color filters that came
with the Celestron eyepiece set that I bought with the scope.

What you are seeing of Mars in your skies seems to be about what I'm seeing,
if not more. Since I live north of you, the position of Mars is much lower
here than it is for you. Nevertheless, you still are forced to view Mars by
looking through a lot of atmosphere. This is why Mars appears to be a blur.
Keep trying. You may get a night with excellent seeing and image will
become crisp.



Focusing:
The focus knob is too sensitive. The slightest touch, even with the
25mm eyepiece, seems to move the focus too far to one side, or the
other. I have to touch it, wait for the scope to settle, and then look
to see if it's improved, or gotten worse. I've read a little about
microfocusers, and cable extenders. Can anyone suggest a good one? It
doesn't need to be powered.

JMI makes a focuser that will help. It's called the NGF-S and it will solve
your problems.



Eyepieces:
I bought an eyepiece set (celestron) with the scope from the dealer.
It also came with a basic filter set, 33-4 mm, and one 2x barlow. The
33mm and the 25mm have a nice wide view. The others range from smaller
than dime sized to pointless. I have no idea if they are decent
eyepieces or not. The scope uses a 1.25" eyepiece. Should I look at a
2" adapter? Also, who makes a good midrange priced eyepiece? I don't
want cheap, and I don't want to break the bank either. Willing to pay
$50-$250 per eyepiece if necessary.

The eyepieces that you own are not too bad, but they are not the best
either. The next time you get on astromart, keep your eyes open for a TV
Panoptic 22mm type 2. The going used price is about $250 or less, and well
worth the expense. The only danger here is that you may develop a love
affair with Tele Vue eyepieces, which could have a detrimental effect on
your bank account.



Saturn:
Finally something other than mars to look at! (do the quiet times
always last this long?). I pulled the scope out before heading out to
work this morning. Saturn was awesome. Much bigger than mars. The
rings crystal clear, and some banding in the atmosphere easily
visible. No problems here...just throwing it in because I'm excited

The reason Saturn appears crystal clear is that it's high in the sky
compared to Mars.



GPS:
I also bought the GPS for my scope. I'm somewhat disappointed in the
accuracy. I bought it because I can't recognize all of the star
configurations, especially in the late morning hours (I'm fairly good
now at the early evening). The gps may give me a general look at true
north, but the first star it selects for me to finalize (?) the
alignment is typically anywhere from dead on, to 5 degrees off.
Sometimes the GPS goes completely wonky, and points south instead of
north or other craziness like that. Is this normal? Is there something
I should be doing that I'm not?

A GPS (whether it's hand held or built into your scope) will not help you to
identify stars or constellations. For this you need a star chart.

Regarding accuracy of alignment: Check with your manual, as I believe there
is a way to refine your alignment as you are using the scope. I now that
Meade has this feature and I use it quite frequently. BTW, the GPS is
usually not the culprit in poor telescope alignment and poor GOTO accuracy.
If the Celestron GOTO is anything like that of Meade, try selecting
alignment stars that are distant from each other rather than close. You
will usually get a better and more accurate alignment by doing this.

Al



Sorry for all of the questions, and I appreciate any responses.

"Al" wrote in message . net...
"DJRumpy" wrote in message
om...
I just got my first scope a few weeks ago. A celestron Nextstar 8i.
After a few weeks of viewing I have a few questions. Let me just say
that I live in the extremely light poluted Dallas metroplex area, so
deep sky objects justs aren't a very good option, although I have
managed to see the cats eye nebula (looked gray..no color), and
Andromeda (gray again..more like a smudge on my lense, except it
didn't move with the scope).

We're in the same boat, in that I also live in a heavily light polluted
area. I live about 20 from midtown NYC. In spite of this, I can get away
from the city lights by driving about 2 hours, and it is more than worth the
drive.



Mars:
This planet is exteremely bright, almost to the point of blowing away
any detail (not that there seems to be much there to begin with). I
can easily make out the polar cap, and the darker areas on the surface
(lava flows?), but only vague outlines/shadows of these. Is this
normal? Suggestions? I do have a set of basic color filters that came
with the Celestron eyepiece set that I bought with the scope.

What you are seeing of Mars in your skies seems to be about what I'm seeing,
if not more. Since I live north of you, the position of Mars is much lower
here than it is for you. Nevertheless, you still are forced to view Mars by
looking through a lot of atmosphere. This is why Mars appears to be a blur.
Keep trying. You may get a night with excellent seeing and image will
become crisp.



Focusing:
The focus knob is too sensitive. The slightest touch, even with the
25mm eyepiece, seems to move the focus too far to one side, or the
other. I have to touch it, wait for the scope to settle, and then look
to see if it's improved, or gotten worse. I've read a little about
microfocusers, and cable extenders. Can anyone suggest a good one? It
doesn't need to be powered.

JMI makes a focuser that will help. It's called the NGF-S and it will solve
your problems.



Eyepieces:
I bought an eyepiece set (celestron) with the scope from the dealer.
It also came with a basic filter set, 33-4 mm, and one 2x barlow. The
33mm and the 25mm have a nice wide view. The others range from smaller
than dime sized to pointless. I have no idea if they are decent
eyepieces or not. The scope uses a 1.25" eyepiece. Should I look at a
2" adapter? Also, who makes a good midrange priced eyepiece? I don't
want cheap, and I don't want to break the bank either. Willing to pay
$50-$250 per eyepiece if necessary.

The eyepieces that you own are not too bad, but they are not the best
either. The next time you get on astromart, keep your eyes open for a TV
Panoptic 22mm type 2. The going used price is about $250 or less, and well
worth the expense. The only danger here is that you may develop a love
affair with Tele Vue eyepieces, which could have a detrimental effect on
your bank account.



Saturn:
Finally something other than mars to look at! (do the quiet times
always last this long?). I pulled the scope out before heading out to
work this morning. Saturn was awesome. Much bigger than mars. The
rings crystal clear, and some banding in the atmosphere easily
visible. No problems here...just throwing it in because I'm excited

The reason Saturn appears crystal clear is that it's high in the sky
compared to Mars.



GPS:
I also bought the GPS for my scope. I'm somewhat disappointed in the
accuracy. I bought it because I can't recognize all of the star
configurations, especially in the late morning hours (I'm fairly good
now at the early evening). The gps may give me a general look at true
north, but the first star it selects for me to finalize (?) the
alignment is typically anywhere from dead on, to 5 degrees off.
Sometimes the GPS goes completely wonky, and points south instead of
north or other craziness like that. Is this normal? Is there something
I should be doing that I'm not?

A GPS (whether it's hand held or built into your scope) will not help you to
identify stars or constellations. For this you need a star chart.

Regarding accuracy of alignment: Check with your manual, as I believe there
is a way to refine your alignment as you are using the scope. I now that
Meade has this feature and I use it quite frequently. BTW, the GPS is
usually not the culprit in poor telescope alignment and poor GOTO accuracy.
If the Celestron GOTO is anything like that of Meade, try selecting
alignment stars that are distant from each other rather than close. You
will usually get a better and more accurate alignment by doing this.

Al



Sorry for all of the questions, and I appreciate any responses.


Thanks to both of you for posting! Just a follow up. I posted this via
google, and it took well over a day to finally post. In the meantime,
I found a site with forums specific to the celestron line
(http://www.cloudynights.com), which helped me through most of my
questions/problems. The GPS misalignment problem was in part, due to
gear backlash, and scope level. After reading the tips given to me
regarding gear backlash, and ensuring the scope was level, it now
points dead on to the first alignment star. The GPS is supposed to be
accurate when slewing to the first star. According to the forum folks,
I shouldn't have to scroll around the sky looking for the first
alignment star. The problem with mine was more due to gear backlash.
When the scope finished it's north alignment, and then started slewing
towards the first alignment star, I would then manually adjust it, but
in the wrong direction, exagerating the distance due to play in the
drive gears (it automatically picks to stars that are more than 40
degrees apart, and not too high or low on the horizon..very newbie
friendly). By ensuring I moved the alignment star into the view using
the same direction that the scope was last moving, it get a very
accurate alignment. Leveling the scope also took the last bit of play
out. I also made some adjustments via the setup menu to minimize any
backlash, and a final adjustment to 'calibrate' the GPS. Apparently it
adjust it to any local magnetic variance or somesuch. They also
suggested I get a decent power pack, rather than relying only on the
AA batteries that it currently uses. When my batteries get a little
low, the GPS and onboard computer go nuts, pointing any which way.
Although the scope will still acting normal as far as slew speed and
such, after a suggestion from someone in the forum, I replaced the
batteries, and the last of the wonkiness in the GOTO disappeared.

I also spent a few hours reading reviews on eyepieces. I was torn
between the Tele Vue, Panoptic, and Mead UltraWides. I really wanted
the Mead 14mm Ultrawide, but the cost was $300. I was also worried
that the 14mm would be too much magnification with my 2x barlow, and
not enough without. Instead, I orderd a mounting bracket for my
digital camera, an Oxegyn III filter to help with the light polution,
and a Meade 18mm SuperWide. It has a 67 degree afov as opposed to the
84 offered by the UltraWide, but the price was significantly cheaper.
I figure by the time I'm done playing with the new adapter and filter,
I should be ready to purchase the more expensive eyepiece. I hear only
good things about the 14mm Ultrawide. I was informed that for deep
space viewing, less magnification is often better. They tell me the
14mm without barlow is a good choice for deep space objects.

Reading my own post, I realized I made an error. It was the ring
nebula, not the cats eye nebula {*doh!*}. That night was an amazing
night for viewing. Apparently nebula's are not easy in urban areas. I
haven't seen it since

Al, I also did a columation (sp?) on the scope to re-align the
mirrors. The change in detail was amazing. Mars is very crisp, with a
perfectly defined edge, and no color aberations. The image is still
very bright, but the colored areas on the surface are easily visible.
I'm going to try the red filter as suggested, to see if it will tone
down the brightness and pull out more detail. Al, do you have a part
number or url for that JMI microfocuser?

Michael, I wasn't implying I could see anything other than vague
surface details I just wasn't sure what actually created the dark
shaded areas. They look like lava flows. I'm going to try the red
filter you suggested. I'm also wondering if the O2 filter will help
with the detail at all? It's supposed to help filter out undesirable
light pollution, but It seems to be geared more towards deep space
objects/nebulas, rather than local planetary viewing.

Al, how did you pick the location for your two hour drive? Did you
just pack up and pick a direction?

I have one last question for you two. Do either of you have any
experience with laser finder that came with my scope. It seems rather
cheap/tinker toyish. It uses a small laser pointer, and a glass lens,
onto which it projects the laser light. You align according to the
laser spot which is projected onto the glass lense. It works 'ok', but
I still find it hard to locate what I'm looking for from time to time.
I can spot the biggies with no problem (Vega, Arcturas, Spica, Sirius,
etc). Getting them centered in the big scope is another issue. I'm
trying not to rely on the GOTO so much, but this finder isn't making
it easy. Have either of you ever used this type of finder scope?
Should I just get a standard finderscope, and if so, what power
(8x50?).

Thanks guys! I really appreciate it!

"DJRumpy" wrote in message
om...
"Al" wrote in message
. net...
"DJRumpy" wrote in message
om...
I just got my first scope a few weeks ago. A celestron Nextstar 8i.
After a few weeks of viewing I have a few questions. Let me just say
that I live in the extremely light poluted Dallas metroplex area, so
deep sky objects justs aren't a very good option, although I have
managed to see the cats eye nebula (looked gray..no color), and
Andromeda (gray again..more like a smudge on my lense, except it
didn't move with the scope).

We're in the same boat, in that I also live in a heavily light polluted
area. I live about 20 from midtown NYC. In spite of this, I can get
away
from the city lights by driving about 2 hours, and it is more than worth
the
drive.



Mars:
This planet is exteremely bright, almost to the point of blowing away
any detail (not that there seems to be much there to begin with). I
can easily make out the polar cap, and the darker areas on the surface
(lava flows?), but only vague outlines/shadows of these. Is this
normal? Suggestions? I do have a set of basic color filters that came
with the Celestron eyepiece set that I bought with the scope.

What you are seeing of Mars in your skies seems to be about what I'm
seeing,
if not more. Since I live north of you, the position of Mars is much
lower
here than it is for you. Nevertheless, you still are forced to view
Mars by
looking through a lot of atmosphere. This is why Mars appears to be a
blur.
Keep trying. You may get a night with excellent seeing and image will
become crisp.



Focusing:
The focus knob is too sensitive. The slightest touch, even with the
25mm eyepiece, seems to move the focus too far to one side, or the
other. I have to touch it, wait for the scope to settle, and then look
to see if it's improved, or gotten worse. I've read a little about
microfocusers, and cable extenders. Can anyone suggest a good one? It
doesn't need to be powered.

JMI makes a focuser that will help. It's called the NGF-S and it will
solve
your problems.



Eyepieces:
I bought an eyepiece set (celestron) with the scope from the dealer.
It also came with a basic filter set, 33-4 mm, and one 2x barlow. The
33mm and the 25mm have a nice wide view. The others range from smaller
than dime sized to pointless. I have no idea if they are decent
eyepieces or not. The scope uses a 1.25" eyepiece. Should I look at a
2" adapter? Also, who makes a good midrange priced eyepiece? I don't
want cheap, and I don't want to break the bank either. Willing to pay
$50-$250 per eyepiece if necessary.

The eyepieces that you own are not too bad, but they are not the best
either. The next time you get on astromart, keep your eyes open for a
TV
Panoptic 22mm type 2. The going used price is about $250 or less, and
well
worth the expense. The only danger here is that you may develop a love
affair with Tele Vue eyepieces, which could have a detrimental effect on
your bank account.



Saturn:
Finally something other than mars to look at! (do the quiet times
always last this long?). I pulled the scope out before heading out to
work this morning. Saturn was awesome. Much bigger than mars. The
rings crystal clear, and some banding in the atmosphere easily
visible. No problems here...just throwing it in because I'm excited

The reason Saturn appears crystal clear is that it's high in the sky
compared to Mars.



GPS:
I also bought the GPS for my scope. I'm somewhat disappointed in the
accuracy. I bought it because I can't recognize all of the star
configurations, especially in the late morning hours (I'm fairly good
now at the early evening). The gps may give me a general look at true
north, but the first star it selects for me to finalize (?) the
alignment is typically anywhere from dead on, to 5 degrees off.
Sometimes the GPS goes completely wonky, and points south instead of
north or other craziness like that. Is this normal? Is there something
I should be doing that I'm not?

A GPS (whether it's hand held or built into your scope) will not help
you to
identify stars or constellations. For this you need a star chart.

Regarding accuracy of alignment: Check with your manual, as I believe
there
is a way to refine your alignment as you are using the scope. I now
that
Meade has this feature and I use it quite frequently. BTW, the GPS is
usually not the culprit in poor telescope alignment and poor GOTO
accuracy.
If the Celestron GOTO is anything like that of Meade, try selecting
alignment stars that are distant from each other rather than close. You
will usually get a better and more accurate alignment by doing this.

Al



Sorry for all of the questions, and I appreciate any responses.


Thanks to both of you for posting! Just a follow up. I posted this via
google, and it took well over a day to finally post. In the meantime,
I found a site with forums specific to the celestron line
(http://www.cloudynights.com), which helped me through most of my
questions/problems. The GPS misalignment problem was in part, due to
gear backlash, and scope level. After reading the tips given to me
regarding gear backlash, and ensuring the scope was level, it now
points dead on to the first alignment star. The GPS is supposed to be
accurate when slewing to the first star. According to the forum folks,
I shouldn't have to scroll around the sky looking for the first
alignment star. The problem with mine was more due to gear backlash.
When the scope finished it's north alignment, and then started slewing
towards the first alignment star, I would then manually adjust it, but
in the wrong direction, exagerating the distance due to play in the
drive gears (it automatically picks to stars that are more than 40
degrees apart, and not too high or low on the horizon..very newbie
friendly). By ensuring I moved the alignment star into the view using
the same direction that the scope was last moving, it get a very
accurate alignment. Leveling the scope also took the last bit of play
out. I also made some adjustments via the setup menu to minimize any
backlash, and a final adjustment to 'calibrate' the GPS. Apparently it
adjust it to any local magnetic variance or somesuch. They also
suggested I get a decent power pack, rather than relying only on the
AA batteries that it currently uses. When my batteries get a little
low, the GPS and onboard computer go nuts, pointing any which way.
Although the scope will still acting normal as far as slew speed and
such, after a suggestion from someone in the forum, I replaced the
batteries, and the last of the wonkiness in the GOTO disappeared.

I also spent a few hours reading reviews on eyepieces. I was torn
between the Tele Vue, Panoptic, and Mead UltraWides. I really wanted
the Mead 14mm Ultrawide, but the cost was $300. I was also worried
that the 14mm would be too much magnification with my 2x barlow, and
not enough without. Instead, I orderd a mounting bracket for my
digital camera, an Oxegyn III filter to help with the light polution,
and a Meade 18mm SuperWide. It has a 67 degree afov as opposed to the
84 offered by the UltraWide, but the price was significantly cheaper.
I figure by the time I'm done playing with the new adapter and filter,
I should be ready to purchase the more expensive eyepiece. I hear only
good things about the 14mm Ultrawide. I was informed that for deep
space viewing, less magnification is often better. They tell me the
14mm without barlow is a good choice for deep space objects.

I believe that the best choice for viewing most DSOs is the eyepiece which
produces between 80x and 120x. With your 2,000mm fl, a 20mm ep will produce
100x.



Reading my own post, I realized I made an error. It was the ring
nebula, not the cats eye nebula {*doh!*}. That night was an amazing
night for viewing. Apparently nebula's are not easy in urban areas. I
haven't seen it since

Not really true. The ring nebula is bright and an easy target even from
light polluted skies. M-42 is even brighter and easier to find...as a
matter of fact, this is visible with the unaided eye.



Al, I also did a columation (sp?) on the scope to re-align the
mirrors. The change in detail was amazing. Mars is very crisp, with a
perfectly defined edge, and no color aberations. The image is still
very bright, but the colored areas on the surface are easily visible.
I'm going to try the red filter as suggested, to see if it will tone
down the brightness and pull out more detail. Al, do you have a part
number or url for that JMI microfocuser?

Just do a google search for Jim's Mobile or JMI. When you get to the site,
search for the NGF-S.



Michael, I wasn't implying I could see anything other than vague
surface details I just wasn't sure what actually created the dark
shaded areas. They look like lava flows. I'm going to try the red
filter you suggested. I'm also wondering if the O2 filter will help
with the detail at all? It's supposed to help filter out undesirable
light pollution, but It seems to be geared more towards deep space
objects/nebulas, rather than local planetary viewing.

Al, how did you pick the location for your two hour drive? Did you
just pack up and pick a direction?

There are on-line sites that will give you some information. You could also
contact a nearby astronomy club (by email) and they would be happy to direct
you to safe dark sky locatitions in your area.



I have one last question for you two. Do either of you have any
experience with laser finder that came with my scope. It seems rather
cheap/tinker toyish. It uses a small laser pointer, and a glass lens,
onto which it projects the laser light. You align according to the
laser spot which is projected onto the glass lense. It works 'ok', but
I still find it hard to locate what I'm looking for from time to time.

This is a zero mag finder, which is similar to the popular TelRad. It does
the job, but some people still like the 50mm optical finder.

Al


I can spot the biggies with no problem (Vega, Arcturas, Spica, Sirius,
etc). Getting them centered in the big scope is another issue. I'm
trying not to rely on the GOTO so much, but this finder isn't making
it easy. Have either of you ever used this type of finder scope?
Should I just get a standard finderscope, and if so, what power
(8x50?).

Thanks guys! I really appreciate it!