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Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?



 
 
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  #51  
Old January 21st 07, 05:24 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Terrell Miller
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Posts: 274
Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?

wrote in message
oups.com...

Basically, I am somewhat nostalgic for the world order that existed in
the nineteenth century. Here, there was peace between all the advanced
democracies,


hmmm, notable events of the 19th century include:

War of 1812
Trail Of Tears and Manifest Destiny
Mexican-American War
Crimean War
U.S. Civil War
Russo-Turkish War
Franco-Prussian War
Sino-Japanese War
Spanish-American War

you could really add in the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-05 as well.

yep, it was a Golden Age of peace adn harmony all right

--
Terrell Miller


"Some of history's worst disasters have been brought about by taking a
solution that has worked successfully in one area, and trying to apply it in
another area where it isn't appropriate."
-James P. Hogan


  #52  
Old January 21st 07, 05:39 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)
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Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 06:32:43 GMT, in a place far, far away, "Greg D.
Moore \(Strider\)" made the phosphor
on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:


"Rand Simberg" wrote in message
...

It's no surprise that fewer and fewer people pay attention to anything
you
have to say.

What's your evidence for that?


You really are either blind or so egotistical it's not funny.

Look around. Look at what everyone around here has been saying about you
and your postings.


*Everyone*?


Oh you're right. So sorry, it's not everything. I don't think Brad Guth
has had much to say about you.

I don't think so.



  #53  
Old January 21st 07, 09:35 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
[email protected]
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Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?

Pat Flannery wrote:
Since they apparently intend to have a bloody civil war, just get out of
the way and let them have it; maybe if their leaders are all concerned
that they are going to be killed, they will actually decide that they
can live together somehow.


Do you really think that they have a choice?

Maybe the U.S. electorate, in 1948, could have voted for Russia not to
get nuclear weapons, so that they wouldn't have had to pay so much
taxes for the Cold War.

It takes *one* to make a fight, not two.

You start a draft when your country is under attack, not when you decide
to invade another country.


September 11, 2001.

We frankly can't afford this war in a monetary sense; our tanks,
Humvees, and helicopters are worn out, our National Guard and Reserve
troops have had their lives torn apart with no good reason, and if the
President tries to start a draft, he's going to impeached inside of 48
hours...and rightfully so.


Why impeached? Doesn't Congress have to authorize conscription? Surely
all they have to do is laugh at him, not impeach him.

John Savard

  #54  
Old January 21st 07, 09:42 PM posted to sci.space.policy
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Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?

Demosthenes wrote:
Apparently the Chinese have decided that they, too, have the
right to "deny, if necessary, adversaries the use of space
capabilities hostile to [Chinese] national interests."


A few years back, China had one nuclear-armed submarine, and it was in
dock being repaired, according to a TIME magazine article. (But the
latest cover, at least in Canada, shows China rising as the new rival
superpower.)

Perhaps the U.S. no longer has a first-strike capability with regards
to China at this time. Certainly, if China is going for flashy,
propagandistic things like an ASAT test, one would think its military
buildup would include the essentials - the ability to *assure* the
destruction of the United States if necessary.

If, though, the Chinese leadership thinks it can get its way through a
military posture based on show and not true strength, well, they can
get so far through frightening electorates, but they cannot go too far.

If we have sat back and allowed them to acquire real strength - well,
it is in line with our traditional policy of not engaging in
aggression, including pre-emptive wars. Unlike the terrorists (vide
Iraq), China does not have the U.S. panicked. This may be a mistake.

John Savard

  #55  
Old January 21st 07, 11:20 PM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Henry Spencer
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Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?

In article om,
wrote:
You start a draft when your country is under attack, not when you decide
to invade another country.


September 11, 2001.


The Sept. 11th attacks were conducted by a small band of criminals,
loosely backed by one government which no longer exists (the Taliban
regime of Afghanistan). They can't reasonably be used as an excuse to
impose conscription for any purpose you please, 5+ years later.

(Of course, the secret motto of the Department of Fatherland Security is
"we have to destroy freedom to save it" :-), but this seems a trifle
excessive even so.)

There might be some sense to it if the proposed draft were for the purpose
of pacifying *Afghanistan* and finally stamping the Taliban out once and
for all -- and heaven knows, that could use doing. But Iraq is an
unrelated side show.

...and if the
President tries to start a draft, he's going to impeached inside of 48
hours...and rightfully so.


Why impeached? Doesn't Congress have to authorize conscription? Surely
all they have to do is laugh at him, not impeach him.


If he asked for something so stupid, they might feel that the process of
regime change couldn't reasonably wait another two years.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |
  #56  
Old January 22nd 07, 01:41 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?



wrote:

You start a draft when your country is under attack, not when you decide
to invade another country.


September 11, 2001.



Which had zip to do with the Iraqis.
Or as one wag put it: "It's like the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor...
and we promptly declared war on Mexico."
The really horrible part of this mess is that we pulled most of our
troops out of Afghanistan, where al-Qaeda really was, so that now they
really do have a chance to taking over there, and our invasion of Iraq
and failure to find any WMDs is the best recruiting tool they could
ever dream of.
We blew this about every way imaginable.


We frankly can't afford this war in a monetary sense; our tanks,
Humvees, and helicopters are worn out, our National Guard and Reserve
troops have had their lives torn apart with no good reason, and if the
President tries to start a draft, he's going to impeached inside of 48
hours...and rightfully so.


Why impeached? Doesn't Congress have to authorize conscription? Surely
all they have to do is laugh at him, not impeach him.


Who needs those damn Congressmen?
The Decider-In-Chief will do whatever he wants, Congress or no Congress.
The dual conceptions of the Rule Of Law and Separation Of Powers aren't
his high points, to put it mildly.
That's why you get all of his signing statements on new legislation that
say he has no intention of obeying it:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...dreds_of_laws/
Most recently, that he has the right to read anyone's mail he wants with
no court order:
http://www.readingeagle.com/blog/edi...ides_behi.html


Pat
  #57  
Old January 22nd 07, 01:44 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Rand Simberg[_1_]
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Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:41:16 -0600, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:



wrote:

You start a draft when your country is under attack, not when you decide
to invade another country.


September 11, 2001.



Which had zip to do with the Iraqis.
Or as one wag put it: "It's like the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor...
and we promptly declared war on Mexico."


Or we promptly invaded Tunis, in North Africa. Which is in fact what
we did, since you seem historically ignorant.
  #58  
Old January 22nd 07, 03:12 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Pat Flannery
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Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?



Rand Simberg wrote:
Or we promptly invaded Tunis, in North Africa. Which is in fact what
we did, since you seem historically ignorant.



You don't really know almost anything about what happened in America's
history, do you?
Were you even born in the United States? I can't believe you ever went
to even high school here, as this would have been covered in something
like seventh grade history class.
Although getting war declared on Japan was a piece of cake, getting war
declared on the rest of the Axis would have been almost impossible
politically for FDR... but lucky for him (and particularly Churchill,
who couldn't believe what he was seeing when it happened, and was almost
bouncing off the walls with joy) on December 11th, 1941 Germany and
Italy declared war on the United States.
We didn't get around to invading Tunisia until almost a year later, on
November 8th, 1942, and the city of Tunis proper didn't fall until the
evening of May 6th, 1943.

If you are referring to the Barbary Pirates, we attacked them after they
they started raiding American shipping at the end of the 1700's, and we
never did invade the city of Tunis, just bombarded the place, burnt the
frigate "The Philadelphia" in Tripoli harbor in 1804, and came back and
seized the fortress of Derna at Tripoli in 1805 as a way of making the
Pacha of Tripoli agree to stop raiding our shipping in the
Mediterranean: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/barbary.htm
What that would have to do with the attack on Pearl Harbor or 9-11 is
beyond me, as the Barbary Pirates weren't into slaying Christians, but
rather holding them hostage for ransom.

But you know what?

I think I know exactly what you were trying to pull here.

You were going to do the old bait-and-switch.

I was going to assume you were referring to "Tunisia" and Operation
Torch, not "Tunis"...and then you were going to bring up The Barbary
Pirates and the attack on Derna, claiming I was misunderstanding what
you were talking about.
This would be a classic troll move, and worthy of ol' CT himself. Except
that there's a big difference... CT would say something completely off
the wall, then have fun taking on those who disagreed with him by a
series of torturous and convoluted arguments.
You, on the other hand I'm pretty sure, were attempting to purposely
make a posting that was misleading, so that I'd jump on it, and then you
could say "That's not what I was talking about at all."
Of course you couldn't say "Tripoli" as that would be a give-away. And
Tunisia would of course refer to Operation Torch...so you said "Tunis"
instead, without checking if we ever invaded the place during the
Barbary war.
The alternative to that would be that you really are that completely
clueless about the history of WW II, in which case it's no wonder that
your take on reality is so odd, as it's based on extreme ignorance of it
in any detail.


Pat
  #59  
Old January 22nd 07, 03:24 AM posted to sci.space.policy,sci.space.history
Rand Simberg[_1_]
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Posts: 8,311
Default Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?

On Sun, 21 Jan 2007 20:12:03 -0600, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:



Rand Simberg wrote:
Or we promptly invaded Tunis, in North Africa. Which is in fact what
we did, since you seem historically ignorant.



You don't really know almost anything about what happened in America's
history, do you?


Actually, I'm quite conversant, thanks.
  #60  
Old January 22nd 07, 04:33 AM posted to sci.space.policy,soc.culture.usa,sci.optics,alt.war.nuclear
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Default KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT Did The Chinese Violate Any Treaties?


Booted Cat wrote:
I recommend this short movie mocking Kim Jong Il and his secret agent
buying Hennessy XO wine from Chinese black market :=)

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...52D9ED01495685


It would probably put to shame, the whole hollywood establishment with
such a fine tuned plot and conclusion ...

It not only is a mock on Kim Jong Il, but also on Bush, the Chinese
workers and the Chinese rich class of gangsters and criminals ... truly
the work of a genius and probably made on a shoestring ...

The future belongs to India, China, Russia, Central Asia and Venezuela
.... the old centers of civilization and the new centers of oil ...

 




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