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Outer Space Treaty
On 22 May 2006 10:02:43 -0700, "neo" wrote:
Is it true that outer space treaty is applicable to governments and not to organizations and individuals? This is true, but not in the way I'm guessing you want it to be true. According to the Outer Space Treaty, and to international law generally, all space ships, stations, travellers, etc, are government space ships, stations, travellers, etc. If you personally want to go and homestead Mars, either you do so as an Agent of the (I'm guessing) United States Government, or you do so as a Space Pirate. If you homestead Mars as an Agent of the United States Government, the United States Government is required to ensure that your actions do not violate the Outer Space Treaty. This is probably not a problem; the provisions of the OST do not seem to prohibit or even substantially hinder anyone's near-term homesteading of Mars, and the United States Government in particular will probably sign off on the "Agent of the United States Government" part as a formality, with comiserate griping about those damn fool socialists at the UN. You will have to abide by US Government regulations ensuring that you do not e.g. recklessly endanger the people living under the flight path of the rocket you fly to Mars, or carve out a Martian Empire, that sort of thing, and there will be paperwork involved. Deal with it. Plenty of commercial satellite operators have proven that it can be done. If you decide to homestead Mars as a Space Pirate, well, the OST is kind of vague about what happens next. Vagueness like that, means pretty much every government on Earth is going to say, "Space Pirate, huh? Interesting. We'd rather you not launch your Space Pirate Ship from our territory, of course, or build it from parts you bought here, or organize or finance the effort from here. Could cause trouble for us, so go somewhere else". There won't be a "somewhere else" with a supply of rocket parts from which you can build your ship, so you won't be getting to Mars. If you're a purist who insists on being able to carve out your very own sovereign chunk of territory on Mars without any government having any say-so in the operation, then you're out of luck. If you just want to go live on Mars and mind your own business and maybe make a fortune in the process, that can be arranged with a bit of effort. -- *John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, * *Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" * *Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition * *White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute * * for success" * *661-951-9107 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition * |
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Outer Space Treaty
On Wed, 24 May 2006 03:43:03 +0200, Pascal Bourguignon wrote: John Schilling writes: If you're a purist who insists on being able to carve out your very own sovereign chunk of territory on Mars without any government having any say-so in the operation, then you're out of luck. If you just want to go live on Mars and mind your own business and maybe make a fortune in the process, that can be arranged with a bit of effort. Minding my own business means I don't bother with the paperwork and redtape, so I'll go as a space pirate. No, you won't go at all. No ship will carry you. You cannot singlehandedly build your own spaceship. You cannot get together with a small group of like-minded people and build a spaceship without using parts whose purchase, anywhere on Earth, requires lots of paperwork, including the various "I am not a Space Pirate, and I can prove it" forms. And if you were to assemble a group of people so large and diversely talented as to be able to build a spaceship from scratch, or from freely available commodities, you will find that mass of humanity to be wholly unmanageable without lots of internal paperwork. Plus, you'll need police and lawyers and courts to keep the more larcenous members of the team (hello, band of wannabe *space pirates*) from just walking off to parts unknown with the better part of your budget. And if you try to buy passage on someone else's ship, you will find that they, in the course of figuring out how to actually build a spaceship, have gone and filled out the paperwork. Specifically including the, "None of my customers are Space Pirates, and I can prove it", forms. -- *John Schilling * "Anything worth doing, * *Member:AIAA,NRA,ACLU,SAS,LP * is worth doing for money" * *Chief Scientist & General Partner * -13th Rule of Acquisition * *White Elephant Research, LLC * "There is no substitute * * for success" * *661-718-0955 or 661-275-6795 * -58th Rule of Acquisition * |
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Outer Space Treaty
Is it true that outer space treaty is applicable to governments and not
to organizations and individuals? |
#4
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Outer Space Treaty
It closes the frontier for you, by preventing your nation from
expanding. http://spacebombardment.blogspot.com...ng-of-new.html |
#5
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Outer Space Treaty
In article .com,
neo wrote: Is it true that outer space treaty is applicable to governments and not to organizations and individuals? "Organization"? "Individual"? What are those? :-) International law barely recognizes the existence of anything other than governments; it's a very collectivist world view. An organization or individual is the property of some government, and has rights only insofar as that government feels like granting him/her/it some. Article VI of the treaty says (among other things): The activities of non-governmental entities in outer space... shall require authorization and continuing supervision by the appropriate State Party to the Treaty. Other clauses of that Article say that the government in question is responsible for what such entities do. In other words, the treaty most definitely applies to organizations and individuals, via the appropriate government, and there is always some appropriate government (although determining which one may be tricky). -- spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. | |
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Outer Space Treaty
bombardmentforce wrote:
It closes the frontier for you, by preventing your nation from expanding. It also removes the potential for a showdown over some piece of property. Given the situation during the 60's it strikes me as sensible. It prevents territorial claims by nations, but - and this is the important part - it doesn't prevent exploitation of resources. There are token provisions on informing the UN and "sharing" the wealth. So if you want to set a base, mine a region or have 10Gallon hatted Rangers INSIDE you base knock yourself off. http://spacebombardment.blogspot.com...ng-of-new.html You seem to confuse UNANIMITY with "adopted without vote" (quote from UR blog). u-na-nim-i-ty (yue nuh nim'i tee) n. 1. the state or quality of being unanimous; a consensus or undivided opinion. It means everybody voted yes (or YEA if U prefer). Some links: http://www.islandone.org/Treaties/BH766.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_law Art.11, p.5 & 6 - Moon Treaty (1984) 5. States Parties to this Agreement hereby undertake to establish an international rgime, including appropriate procedures, to govern the exploitation of the natural resources of the moon as such exploitation is about to become feasible. This provision shall be implemented in accordance with article 18 of this Agreement. 6. In order to facilitate the establishment of the international regime referred to in paragraph 5 of this article, States Parties shall inform the Secretary-General of the United Nations as well as the public and the international scientific community, to the greatest extent feasible and practicable, of any natural resources they may discover on the moon..blogspot.com/2005/11/jfk-and-sharing-of-new.html |
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Outer Space Treaty
"Hyper" wrote in news:1148343976.951333.166590
@j73g2000cwa.googlegroups.com: You seem to confuse UNANIMITY with "adopted without vote" (quote from UR blog). u-na-nim-i-ty (yue nuh nim'i tee) n. 1. the state or quality of being unanimous; a consensus or undivided opinion. It means everybody voted yes (or YEA if U prefer). Some links: http://www.islandone.org/Treaties/BH766.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_law Art.11, p.5 & 6 - Moon Treaty (1984) 5. States Parties to this Agreement hereby undertake to establish an international rgime, including appropriate procedures, to govern the exploitation of the natural resources of the moon as such exploitation is about to become feasible. This provision shall be implemented in accordance with article 18 of this Agreement. You seem to confuse the Outer Space Treaty with the Moon Treaty. The two are not the same. The US has ratified the former but not the latter. The Moon Treaty is practically a dead letter as far as international space law is concerned. -- JRF Reply-to address spam-proofed - to reply by E-mail, check "Organization" (I am not assimilated) and think one step ahead of IBM. |
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Outer Space Treaty
Any major investment in RLV's might as well hand any
research over to the AST (Associate Administrator for Commercial Space Transportation) if they have received contracts from any government funded organization(s) to help them perform either: (i) technical discussions and activities, including the design, development, operation, maintenance, modification, and repair of satellites, satellite components, missiles, other equipment, launch facilities, and launch vehicles; (ii) satellite processing and launch activities, including launch preparation, satellite transportation, integration of the satellite with the launch vehicle, testing and checkout prior to launch, satellite launch, and return of equipment to the United States; (iii) activities relating to launch failure, delay, or cancellation, including post-launch failure investi- gations; and (iv) all other aspects of the launch. (under U.S. Congress, Strom Thurmond National Defense Authorization Act, 1999, Subtitle B-Satellite Export Controls, SEC. 1514. NATIONAL SECURITY CONTROLS ON SATELLITE EXPORT LICENSING). However, any organization involved in private research and development must either perform their research in secret, or not be located within the United States* in order to develop space technology. The AST is becoming deeply involved in Human Safety issues w.r.t. regulation for risk development, liability, financial responsibility requirements, mission assurance, environmental risk, flight control, preflight analysis, system performance, accurate simulation of ground testing and flight conditions, passenger safety requirements, public safety requirements, and safety of the crew. All of these items present potential conflicts with private enterprise in that a consid- erable amount of time is spent on procuring documents, contacting FAA regional flight centers, and requesting licenses, permits, and approvals in order to achieve flight status. Not only must a space business contend with bureaucratic protocols, but conflicts between agencies and potential conflicts between departments within each agency can increase the cost of operation for a space business. * Interestingly, The Outer Space Treaty lets nations do their own governing regarding space mining activities, because territorial sovereignty is prohibited by Article II. Any construction activity in a non- geosynchronous orbit may be regarded as outside the territorial sovereignty of any country. Private ownership is therefore provided under the natural law theory of property rights. Under Article VIII, property rights are conferred and recognized by any country outside of territorial sovereignty. These rights include the following: 1) The right to exclude others from space facilities and safety zones, 2) The right to be free of interference from others, 3) The right to control the activities of all natural persons and legal entities within the owner's space facility and and safety zone(s), 4) The right to direct the activities of space vehicles and persons inside those vehicles while the vehicle is in the space facility and its related safety zone, and 5) The exclusive right to appropriate resources within the space facility and its related safety zone, and 6) The right to sell property rights. Under the Outer Space Treaty, property rights are subject to the following limitations: 1) if the owner of the space facility or safety zone(s) stops using his property for peaceful purposes, the rights shall immediately terminate; 2) if the owner of the space facility or safety zone(s) abandons the property for a period of two years or more, the rights shall terminate; 3) If the owner of an orbital facility deviates from the registered orbital parameters by more than [a percentage to be defined when the treaty is negotiated], for a period of one month or more, then rights shall immediately terminate; 4) owners may not establish property rights that would prevent others from having free access to outer space and celestial bodies; 5) owners shall have the right to direct the activities of space vehicles on the registry of other states, and the persons inside those vehicles, only to the extent necessary to protect the safety of other space objects and persons within the owner(s) space facility and safety zone(s); 6) owners shall not have the right to exclude persons who come to inspect the owner's space facility, on the basis of reciprrocity, pursuant to article XII of the Outer Space Treaty. Regarding prospecting for precious metals and the like, the doctrine of pedis possessio says that occupation of a territory (i.e., asteroid) for the purpose of mining is treated as a licensee or tenant at will; of course, radiometric detection of precious metals using synthetic aperture radar does not require terrestrial mining because erosion does not take place on an asteroid. The location and recording of data regarding surface scans of an asteroid would be difficult to ascertain without first retrieving a sample extraction for proof of telepresence. Thus remote sensing and telerobotics are vital to securing pedis possessio under the General Mining Law. For information concerning House Approval of H.R. 3752, The Commercial Space Launch Amendments Act of 2004 see: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:h.r.03752: |
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Outer Space Treaty
You seem to confuse UNANIMITY with "adopted without vote"
U.N.Resolution 1721 preceeded the Outer Space Treaty, which was Johnson's sin, not JFK's. Art.11, p.5 & 6 - Moon Treaty (1984) Is not binding on the U.S. and not the fault of American leaders. it doesn't prevent exploitation of resources Both Antartica and Space are underdeveloped, my thesis is that similar bad law is responsible. mine a region Mining and sharing are not compatible. |
#10
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Outer Space Treaty
International law barely recognizes the existence of anything other
than governments; it's a very collectivist world view. An organization or individual is the property of some government, and has rights only insofar as that government feels like granting him/her/it some. Hmm, in my previous post I was sort of fuzzing the question of whether the government grants the rights to the individuals, or whether the individuals set up the governments (as a practical matter, international law is more relevant if it applies even when governments don't agree on concepts like "rights", although I suppose even authoritarian governments may give lip service - if not any implementation - to rights these days). But yeah, it is probably a stretch to really read the situation as "the citizens of my country set up a government to protect my rights, and that government sets up treaties to protect those rights vis-a-vis encroachment by other governments". In either case, though, international law is about government-to-government relations. Will this change (with people trying to come up with legal bases for things like international intervention in Darfur, Rwanda, etc)? Dunno, but it hasn't changed yet... |
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