#21
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orbital elements
"U. N. McGregor" writes:
Ok group thanks. As someone who wants to make observations of at least NEO's , I understand that carefully determining the changes in RA and DEC relative to known star positions is the first step. What is the least quality of CCD or CMOS digital camera is needed to take photos of orbits? That depends on how faint objects you will be studying. What is the best what is the best way to determine good RA and DEC measures? Astrometrica: http://www.astrometrica.at/ Before spending too much effort into this project, you should realize that asteroids are presently discovered almost exclusively by automated search programs, such as LINEAR, Catalina, Spacewatch, etc. Orbits are automatically calculated from positions received from these surveys and others (incl. amateurs) on a daily basis by the Minor Planet Center (MPC) and by Lowell observatory. Orbital elements for all known object can be downloaded from their web-sites. If you are interested in recently discovered NEOs, still with highly uncertain orbits, you may consult the NEO Confirmation Page and join the Minor Planet Mailing List http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/. pej -- Per Erik Jorde |
#22
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orbital elements
Check out this site for more information:
http://minorplanetproject.com/ Matt Mills "Per Erik Jorde" wrote in message ... "U. N. McGregor" writes: Ok group thanks. As someone who wants to make observations of at least NEO's , I understand that carefully determining the changes in RA and DEC relative to known star positions is the first step. What is the least quality of CCD or CMOS digital camera is needed to take photos of orbits? That depends on how faint objects you will be studying. What is the best what is the best way to determine good RA and DEC measures? Astrometrica: http://www.astrometrica.at/ Before spending too much effort into this project, you should realize that asteroids are presently discovered almost exclusively by automated search programs, such as LINEAR, Catalina, Spacewatch, etc. Orbits are automatically calculated from positions received from these surveys and others (incl. amateurs) on a daily basis by the Minor Planet Center (MPC) and by Lowell observatory. Orbital elements for all known object can be downloaded from their web-sites. If you are interested in recently discovered NEOs, still with highly uncertain orbits, you may consult the NEO Confirmation Page and join the Minor Planet Mailing List http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mpml/. pej -- Per Erik Jorde |
#23
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orbital elements
This all sure gives a good start . Thanks
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#24
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orbital elements
In article xPGol.13308$Db2.361@edtnps83,
U. N. McGregor wrote: Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital elements. All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and mean but never the way to actually do that type of calculation. Check out: http://www.willbell.com/math/mc10.htm -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ |
#25
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orbital elements
In article ODIol.13323$Db2.3340@edtnps83,
U. N. McGregor wrote: "Greg Neill" wrote in message om... U. N. McGregor wrote: Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital elements. All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and mean but never the way to actually do that type of calculation. See if you can get hold of a copy of Fundamentals of Astrodynamics by Bate, Mueller, and White. $12.89 at amazon -- a good deal for an excellent book. Lot's of examples and exercises. http://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-A.../dp/0486600610 How difficult is it to read this and understand it? Is it written for engineers and scientists etc.? Remember , I am an amateur with limited math skills. You must know some calculus to be able to do this. If you don't have enough math skills, you must be willing to acquire those skills. -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ |
#26
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orbital elements
In article ,
Chris L Peterson wrote: On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 03:30:14 GMT, Golden California Girls wrote: It can't be calculated without calculus math skills. I do orbital analysis all the time, and I never use calculus. You only need that if you want to derive the equations. Just determining orbital elements from observations requires nothing more than vector algebra. In principle true, but I find it helpful to have some idea of what I'm actually doing...... :-) -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ |
#27
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orbital elements
In article ZWXol.13385$Db2.7322@edtnps83,
U. N. McGregor wrote: Ok group thanks. As someone who wants to make observations of at least NEO's , I understand that carefully determining the changes in RA and DEC relative to known star positions is the first step. What is the least quality of CCD or CMOS digital camera is needed to take photos of orbits? What is the best what is the best way to determine good RA and DEC measures? Check out: http://astrometry.net/ "Chris L Peterson" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:03:41 GMT, "U. N. McGregor" wrote: Where can I find concise directions on how to determine orbital elements. All I ever see on the internet is description about what they are and mean but never the way to actually do that type of calculation. I've found _Methods of Orbit Determination for the Micro Computer_, by Dan Boulet, to be the best _practical_ book on orbital dynamics (by far). It briefly covers history and derivations, but is strongly focused on practical math and algorithms. It's available at http://www.willbell.com/math/mc10.htm . _________________________________________________ Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Schlyter, Grev Turegatan 40, SE-114 38 Stockholm, SWEDEN e-mail: pausch at stjarnhimlen dot se WWW: http://stjarnhimlen.se/ |
#29
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orbital elements
On Mar 5, 2:25*pm, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:13:34 GMT, (Paul Schlyter) wrote: I do orbital analysis all the time, and I never use calculus. You only need that if you want to derive the equations. Just determining orbital elements from observations requires nothing more than vector algebra. In principle true, but I find it helpful to have some idea of what I'm actually doing...... :-) Actually, even the derivations of most of the equations used for orbital analysis don't require much calculus. And what little there is can be understood conceptually without needing to actually know the methodology. There's no reason the OP can't understand the concepts behind the analysis, and then actually perform the analysis, without having much in the way of practical calculus skills. _________________________________________________ Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatoryhttp://www.cloudbait.com Allow me to give him the first Ra/Dec lesson- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTTDWhky9HY http://www.opencourse.info/astronomy...phere_anim.gif A rotating celestial celestial sphere does not equate to a stationary Earth A rotating Earth does not equate to stationary celestial sphere. Repeat after me 100 times - the Ra/Dec system is a wonderful observational convenience built on the average 24 hour day and the equable 365/366 day calendar system therefore it is not good to organise the orbital motion of the Earth or the external celestial framework around the 'predictive' qualities of Ra/Dec.You probably can convince yourself through calculus that Isaac didn't spot the nondescript celestial sphere bubble at the core of Flamsteed's false premise and conclusion but I guess,neither did nayone else until now. I wish people would grow up and accept that there is an incredible amount of observational data to interpret for climate,geological and other purposes such as past history of the planet,internal and celestial dynamics ect. |
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