Sameness of Science and Religion

"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message ...
Painius wrote,

We look for similarity in many things,
however there is little similarity between
science and religion.

With one major exception, Paine. The void-space paradigm (VSP). The VSP
with its trappings of flying 'magical messengers' available in unlimited
numbers on demand, geodesics that can crush massive stars into black
holes, plus the unquestioning, unwavering belief of its adherents in the
face of reason, makes the VSP a full-fledged
religion.

Lately, there is more and more discussion and learning
about "dark energy." Scientists are calling it a "property
of space itself" rather than just an inhabitant of space, as
"normal" energy seems to be.

It's beginning to appear that the VSP is on its way out of
the mainstream, and that what you are calling the "VED"
is what the mainstream is calling "dark energy."

..in order for religion to truly work, it
must remain closed, or at the very least,
highly resistant, to anything that would
upset the tenets handed down from
generation to generation.

Fits the VSP to a 'T', does it not?

No argument here, Bill.

There is another difference i just thought
of.... my hosts were adamant about
taboo subjects, i.e., subjects i should not discuss...

Like the literal mechanism of gravity and the ludicrousness
(ludicrosity?) of the VSP, maybe?

Actually no... such things were not taboo, they were just not
subjects of general interest.

Try to really, really analyze this one statement, really wrap your head
around it, and see what is revealed about the robustness of the "Void":

"THERE IS NO PERCEPTIBLE UPPER LIMIT TO THE AMPLITUDE OF EM RADIATION
TRANSMISSIBLE."

Do y'all begin to 'get it' yet?

oc

"It is described abstractly in mathematical language, _but not
explained_."

Are you talking amplitude? or frequency? There is such a thing
as saturation when it comes to the strength of EM radiation;
however, i know of know upper limitation on frequency in the
radiation spectrum.

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Sometimes OH! my mind grips a thought so unkind
That it twists me to heights of contortion...
I'm often so glad that my mom and my dad
Didn't follow along with abortion!

Paine Ellsworth

Painius wrote,

Are you talking amplitude? or frequency?
Both amplitude *and* frequency, actually.

There is such a thing as saturation when
it comes to the strength of EM radiation;

There is?? What about the full-spectrum wavetrain of a supernova blast
and the far more energetic events of the quasar epoch and beyond? Where
is the 'saturation point' limiting the level of EM radiation
transmissible (and of gravity-wave radiation for that matter)?

..however, i know of no upper limitation
on frequency in the radiation spectrum.

Yet the mainstream would have it cut off at high gamma, supposedly the
very 'tippy top' and most energy-dense end of the spectrum. And it would
have wavelengths limited to the Planck length rather than continuing on
in an unbroken continuum of shorter and shorter wavelengths and the
higher and higher energy-densities of the SPED/ VED itself. oc

Painius wrote,

Are you talking amplitude? or frequency?
Both amplitude *and* frequency, actually.

There is such a thing as saturation when
it comes to the strength of EM radiation;

There is?? What about the full-spectrum wavetrain of a supernova blast
and the far more energetic events of the quasar epoch and beyond? Where
is the 'saturation point' limiting the level of EM radiation
transmissible (and of gravity-wave radiation for that matter)?

..however, i know of no upper limitation
on frequency in the radiation spectrum.

Yet the mainstream would have it cut off at high gamma, supposedly the
very 'tippy top' and most energy-dense end of the spectrum. And it would
have wavelengths limited to the Planck length rather than continuing on
in an unbroken continuum of shorter and shorter wavelengths and the
higher and higher energy-densities of the SPED/ VED itself. oc

"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message
...
Painius wrote,

We look for similarity in many things,
however there is little similarity between
science and religion.

With one major exception, Paine. The void-space paradigm (VSP). The VSP
with its trappings of flying 'magical messengers' available in unlimited
numbers on demand, geodesics that can crush massive stars into black
holes, plus the unquestioning, unwavering belief of its adherents in the
face of reason, makes the VSP a full-fledged
religion.

Apostles' Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

Bill says ...
"The SCO exerts is pressure ever downward, driving the
flows that create all that is, throughout infinity. Again, this
is taken as a 'given'."

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the
Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary.

Bill says ...
"the 'Engine' or Primal Particle (PP) is driven *by* the
supra-cosmic overpressure (SCO) from *outside* the
universe. That's why it's called 'supra-cosmic'. It's source
is unknown and is taken as a 'given'."

He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he
descended to hell.

Bill says ...
"It shows itself as the flow of the spatial medium into the
nucleus, 'venting' into some unknown domain which is
the seat of the strong force."

The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father
almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

Bill says ...
"Further, he believed a singularity resides at the core of
every atomic nucleus, and that all singularities, including
the one at the core of the PP, are in fact One Singularity
nonlocally linked. So all the SPED/VED flows going into
all atomic nuclei (such as within the Earth) are nonlocally
linked to the core of the PP, where they rejoin the main
flow going thru that 'Engine'."

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Bill says ...
"So non-plurality/ nonlocality of singularities joins the list
of 'givens' in the expanded model, along with hyperfluidity,
Ultimate Origins, and the SCO,"


An awful lot of 'givens' Bill.
I know, I know ... It's a M-Y-S-T-E-R-Y ;-)

"Bill Sheppard" wrote in message
...
Painius wrote,

We look for similarity in many things,
however there is little similarity between
science and religion.

With one major exception, Paine. The void-space paradigm (VSP). The VSP
with its trappings of flying 'magical messengers' available in unlimited
numbers on demand, geodesics that can crush massive stars into black
holes, plus the unquestioning, unwavering belief of its adherents in the
face of reason, makes the VSP a full-fledged
religion.

Apostles' Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

Bill says ...
"The SCO exerts is pressure ever downward, driving the
flows that create all that is, throughout infinity. Again, this
is taken as a 'given'."

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was conceived by the
Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary.

Bill says ...
"the 'Engine' or Primal Particle (PP) is driven *by* the
supra-cosmic overpressure (SCO) from *outside* the
universe. That's why it's called 'supra-cosmic'. It's source
is unknown and is taken as a 'given'."

He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he
descended to hell.

Bill says ...
"It shows itself as the flow of the spatial medium into the
nucleus, 'venting' into some unknown domain which is
the seat of the strong force."

The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended to heaven and is seated at the right hand of God the Father
almighty.
From there he will come to judge the living and the dead.

Bill says ...
"Further, he believed a singularity resides at the core of
every atomic nucleus, and that all singularities, including
the one at the core of the PP, are in fact One Singularity
nonlocally linked. So all the SPED/VED flows going into
all atomic nuclei (such as within the Earth) are nonlocally
linked to the core of the PP, where they rejoin the main
flow going thru that 'Engine'."

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic* church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.

Bill says ...
"So non-plurality/ nonlocality of singularities joins the list
of 'givens' in the expanded model, along with hyperfluidity,
Ultimate Origins, and the SCO,"


An awful lot of 'givens' Bill.
I know, I know ... It's a M-Y-S-T-E-R-Y ;-)

Hi oc and Painius Did not want my post to separate people by what they
believe. I believe in God,but not sure, Have no real leaning for the
word of God in the bible(any bible) When I started this I had only
terminology sameness in mind. Let me add to this that there is a
sameness in prayers,and QM. I goes like this. "Prayers can move
mountains." But probably not,for it comes under the uncertainty
principle. See what I mean , Nothing can separate people more
than religion.People will be killed in the name of their God.( it
happened today) Bert

Hi oc and Painius Did not want my post to separate people by what they
believe. I believe in God,but not sure, Have no real leaning for the
word of God in the bible(any bible) When I started this I had only
terminology sameness in mind. Let me add to this that there is a
sameness in prayers,and QM. I goes like this. "Prayers can move
mountains." But probably not,for it comes under the uncertainty
principle. See what I mean , Nothing can separate people more
than religion.People will be killed in the name of their God.( it
happened today) Bert

"Painius" wrote in message
...
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message...
...

Our thoughts are words,and most of our thoughts come from the words of
great thinkers Lets start with the word "singularity" In science
it is the birth place(seed ) of the universe. Next word that comes into
my mind is "infinity" Infinity could be a totally imaginary word,and
might only exist in our minds. That means although we use it so much in
thinking about our universe,it could very well have no reality in
describing the universe. How does God bring in infinity? The bible
tells us in believing in God you will have ever lasting life. Lots
more sameness comes into my mind,but I would rather hear your thoughts
on this. Best to keep in mind the "G" in my equation could stand for
"God" or "gravity" and there could be a strange and almost complete
sameness in that equation. Bert PS The bible uses singularity by
saying"There is only one God (almost forgot to mention that)

We look for similarity in many things, however there is
little similarity between science and religion. And in fact
there is one most startling difference!...
TRUE Science and TRUE Religion are both about the search for ultimate truth.
TRUE Religion asks the question "Why are we here?", and is open minded about
the answers that come back.
TRUE Science asks the question "How are we here?", and Adheres to the
Scientific Method.
I believe TRUE Science and TRUE Religion are the two cornerstones of all
knowledge and wisdom.


In order for science to truly work, it must remain open to
new observations that may refine/refute accepted ideas.

You are so right, but sadly many of today's scientists are guilty of the
same dogmatic attitude that they are so highly critical of in the religious
community.

And in order for religion to truly work, it must remain
closed, or at the very least, highly resistant, to anything
that would upset the tenets handed down from generation
to generation.

TRUE Religion never resists the truth, although in practice many religious
people resist even the consideration of new ideas.

There is another difference i just thought of. When i
traveled to other countries, my hosts were adamant about
taboo subjects, i.e., subjects i should not discuss with the
local inhabitants. There were four of these no-no areas,
and they were...

race
politics
sex
religion

We can note that science is not on this list. Where things
like religion tend to SEPARATE people and can lead to
many nasty results, science has a tendency to rise above
political, religious and other boundaries and to bring
people together.

both TRUE religion and TRUE science are forces for universal harmony, but
bad science and phoney religion are both destructive.


We may see a few similarities between science and
religion in a very general sense; however, a sameness
about them? When it comes to people and the effects
that science and religion can have on them, science
and religion are as different as day and night!

I would say that TRUE religion and TRUE science are complementary rather
than "same" or "different".

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Our heads up in the sky,
We're so clueless of our worth...
Whose sky no longer shines
As we lose our Mother-Earth?

As people we must learn
About the care of planet parts,
To leave the world a better turn--
Empower brand new hearts!

Paine Ellsworth




True Wisdom embodies the humility to consider and respect all points of view
and the ability to recognize and acknowledge ultimate truth.

best regards and good seeing!

Terry Hurd

"Painius" wrote in message
...
"G=EMC^2 Glazier" wrote in message...
...

Our thoughts are words,and most of our thoughts come from the words of
great thinkers Lets start with the word "singularity" In science
it is the birth place(seed ) of the universe. Next word that comes into
my mind is "infinity" Infinity could be a totally imaginary word,and
might only exist in our minds. That means although we use it so much in
thinking about our universe,it could very well have no reality in
describing the universe. How does God bring in infinity? The bible
tells us in believing in God you will have ever lasting life. Lots
more sameness comes into my mind,but I would rather hear your thoughts
on this. Best to keep in mind the "G" in my equation could stand for
"God" or "gravity" and there could be a strange and almost complete
sameness in that equation. Bert PS The bible uses singularity by
saying"There is only one God (almost forgot to mention that)

We look for similarity in many things, however there is
little similarity between science and religion. And in fact
there is one most startling difference!...
TRUE Science and TRUE Religion are both about the search for ultimate truth.
TRUE Religion asks the question "Why are we here?", and is open minded about
the answers that come back.
TRUE Science asks the question "How are we here?", and Adheres to the
Scientific Method.
I believe TRUE Science and TRUE Religion are the two cornerstones of all
knowledge and wisdom.


In order for science to truly work, it must remain open to
new observations that may refine/refute accepted ideas.

You are so right, but sadly many of today's scientists are guilty of the
same dogmatic attitude that they are so highly critical of in the religious
community.

And in order for religion to truly work, it must remain
closed, or at the very least, highly resistant, to anything
that would upset the tenets handed down from generation
to generation.

TRUE Religion never resists the truth, although in practice many religious
people resist even the consideration of new ideas.

There is another difference i just thought of. When i
traveled to other countries, my hosts were adamant about
taboo subjects, i.e., subjects i should not discuss with the
local inhabitants. There were four of these no-no areas,
and they were...

race
politics
sex
religion

We can note that science is not on this list. Where things
like religion tend to SEPARATE people and can lead to
many nasty results, science has a tendency to rise above
political, religious and other boundaries and to bring
people together.

both TRUE religion and TRUE science are forces for universal harmony, but
bad science and phoney religion are both destructive.


We may see a few similarities between science and
religion in a very general sense; however, a sameness
about them? When it comes to people and the effects
that science and religion can have on them, science
and religion are as different as day and night!

I would say that TRUE religion and TRUE science are complementary rather
than "same" or "different".

happy days and...
starry starry nights!

--
Our heads up in the sky,
We're so clueless of our worth...
Whose sky no longer shines
As we lose our Mother-Earth?

As people we must learn
About the care of planet parts,
To leave the world a better turn--
Empower brand new hearts!

Paine Ellsworth




True Wisdom embodies the humility to consider and respect all points of view
and the ability to recognize and acknowledge ultimate truth.

best regards and good seeing!

Terry Hurd

Terry Hurd wrote,

True Wisdom embodies the humility to
consider and respect all points of view..

Oh yes, Gordon Wolter was most adamant on this one point- to always "see
the other fellow's frame of referance", to "see thru his eyes."
Admittedly I have a hard time emulating Wolter's example, particularly
in regard to the 'Void-Spacers' and their avowed Religion.
But without effort, Wolter was completely charitable and
respectful of the Void-Spacers, allowing that that is simply their
reality and their truth. Under their truth, they _need_ their 'magical
messengers' just as the medieval religionists needed their imps and
angels. Wolter was totally respectful of _all_ the beliefs and
philosophies of all cultures, including the one Mr. Zinni espouses.
I just have to wonder though, if Wolter's total charity
and pacificism wasn't a little naive in regards to Hitler, the al Quaida
and Taliban. oc