Once and for all...are humans or robots better for Mars?

On Feb 22, 12:06*am, sarge wrote:
On 22 Feb, 05:08, Fred J. McCall wrote:





" wrote:
On Feb 21, 9:49 am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article da1b704b-55bd-4ff3-8990-e43409b26708
@x11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, says...

the uninhabitible for 1000 years is chernobyl

Which would never happen in the west, because we don't use that design.
The Russians also decided not to build anymore reactors with the same
design.

yeah but spent core storage pools are in not hardened steel buildings
like standard streel business buildings and contain many times the
amount of fuel released in chernobyl.

Most of that fuel has cooled enough to be more manageable. *Just what
do you think is going to damage a steel and concrete liner multiple
feet thick that is let into the ground?

reactors are at least in containment but not the waste core pools

Because they don't need to be. *They're simply not that dangerous,
despite your repeated ignorant attempts to claim that they are.

--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
*truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Thomas Jefferson

Why another thread?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It must be a google problem. also the groups arent showing new posts
on the main page

\ reactors are at least in containment but not the waste core pools

Because they don't need to be. *They're simply not that dangerous,
despite your repeated ignorant attempts to claim that they are.


fresh corse are 2000 degrees, and normally covered with 30 to 40 feet
of chilled water mix.

cores will burn if exposed at 700 degrees.

now terrorists dont have to puncture and drain a waste core pool, just
disable the cooling system or hit a pump line.

the typical pool has 6 to 10 core groups stored very tightly packed,
kept in water because its cheaper than dry cask storage..

despite your claim all is well, it clearly isnt and near all the nuke
plants worldwide have a ticking time bomb. one day terrorists will be
successful........

In article d19fc79d-72a7-4198-8167-
, says...

On Feb 21, 9:49*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article da1b704b-55bd-4ff3-8990-e43409b26708
@x11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, says...
the uninhabitible for 1000 years is chernobyl

Which would never happen in the west, because we don't use that design. *
The Russians also decided not to build anymore reactors with the same
design.

yeah but spent core storage pools are in not hardened steel buildings
like standard streel business buildings and contain many times the
amount of fuel released in chernobyl.

reactors are at least in containment but not the waste core pools

Irrelevant since there is no credible method of spreading the waste as
far and wide as was done with the fire at Chernobyl.

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Jeff Findley wrote:

In article da1b704b-55bd-4ff3-8990-e43409b26708
@x11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, says...

the uninhabitible for 1000 years is chernobyl

Which would never happen in the west, because we don't use that design.
The Russians also decided not to build anymore reactors with the same
design.

However, nearly a dozen are still operating, which is slightly
frightening.

Only slightly, since the Russians are generally smart enough not to make
the same mistake twice.

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011

In article ,
says...

" wrote:

\ reactors are at least in containment but not the waste core pools

Because they don't need to be. *They're simply not that dangerous,
despite your repeated ignorant attempts to claim that they are.


fresh corse are 2000 degrees, and normally covered with 30 to 40 feet
of chilled water mix.


Most of them aren't fresh.


cores will burn if exposed at 700 degrees.


Which leaves only getting them exposed and ignoring the situation
until they get to 700 degrees.


now terrorists dont have to puncture and drain a waste core pool, just
disable the cooling system or hit a pump line.


And then all we have to do is sit on our asses for a few days instead
of bringing in a tank truck and dumping more water, or dumping water
from another line, or dumping water from secondary reactor coolant, or
dumping water from a firemain, or...

This is rather silly, isn't it? This is especially true when you
consider that a nuclear power plant must have a source of water for its
cooling tower(s).

You do know what a cooling tower is and how it works, right Bob?

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011

On Feb 22, 10:09*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article d19fc79d-72a7-4198-8167-
, says...



On Feb 21, 9:49 am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article da1b704b-55bd-4ff3-8990-e43409b26708
@x11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, says...
the uninhabitible for 1000 years is chernobyl

Which would never happen in the west, because we don't use that design.

On Feb 22, 10:10*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...



In article ,
*Jeff Findley wrote:

In article da1b704b-55bd-4ff3-8990-e43409b26708
@x11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, says...

the uninhabitible for 1000 years is chernobyl

Which would never happen in the west, because we don't use that design. *
The Russians also decided not to build anymore reactors with the same
design.

However, nearly a dozen are still operating, which is slightly
frightening.

Only slightly, since the Russians are generally smart enough not to make
the same mistake twice.

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011

the mistakes were human ones, and could be repeated.

just look at nasa, the shuttle managers learned not to accept o ring
partial burn thru since its unsafe to accepot troubles in critical one
situations that could take out a vehicle. dont look at critical one as
maintence issues.

yet they made the same sort of mistake with foam loss, accept critical
one problem as maintence issue

with the same tragic outcome, lost vehicle and crew.......

In article ,
Jeff Findley wrote:

In article ,
says...

In article ,
Jeff Findley wrote:

In article da1b704b-55bd-4ff3-8990-e43409b26708
@x11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, says...

the uninhabitible for 1000 years is chernobyl

Which would never happen in the west, because we don't use that design.
The Russians also decided not to build anymore reactors with the same
design.

However, nearly a dozen are still operating, which is slightly
frightening.

Only slightly, since the Russians are generally smart enough not to make
the same mistake twice.

That depends on whether you consider the mistake to be "performing a
risky experiment without adequate safeguards" or "operating an
inherently unsafe reactor design". I don't think the Chernobyl
experiment is the only way to blow up an RBMK.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

On Feb 22, 12:28*pm, Mike Ash wrote:
In article ,
*Jeff Findley wrote:





In article ,
says...

In article ,
*Jeff Findley wrote:

In article da1b704b-55bd-4ff3-8990-e43409b26708
@x11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, says...

the uninhabitible for 1000 years is chernobyl

Which would never happen in the west, because we don't use that design. *
The Russians also decided not to build anymore reactors with the same
design.

However, nearly a dozen are still operating, which is slightly
frightening.

Only slightly, since the Russians are generally smart enough not to make
the same mistake twice.

That depends on whether you consider the mistake to be "performing a
risky experiment without adequate safeguards" or "operating an
inherently unsafe reactor design". I don't think the Chernobyl
experiment is the only way to blow up an RBMK.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

lack of a containment makes it inheretenly unsafe

In article 4dea1ce1-94cd-41ab-9138-9b7dcd8b0c90
@z27g2000prz.googlegroups.com, says...

On Feb 22, 10:09*am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article d19fc79d-72a7-4198-8167-
, says...



On Feb 21, 9:49 am, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article da1b704b-55bd-4ff3-8990-e43409b26708
@x11g2000yqc.googlegroups.com, says...
the uninhabitible for 1000 years is chernobyl

Which would never happen in the west, because we don't use that design.
The Russians also decided not to build anymore reactors with the same
design.

yeah but spent core storage pools are in not hardened steel buildings
like standard streel business buildings and contain many times the
amount of fuel released in chernobyl.

reactors are at least in containment but not the waste core pools

Irrelevant since there is no credible method of spreading the waste as
far and wide as was done with the fire at Chernobyl. *

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011

waste core pools will burn if the exposed cores arent under chilled
water, terroist connected people have worked at us nuke plants.

Exactly how would that happen? How would terrorists *quickly* drain one
of these pools? Given nuclear power plants have quite a bit of water at
their disposal, any slow leak could be addressed in the short term by
adding water. Note that the cooling towers require a lot of water, so
it's not like water is in short supply at a nuclear power generation
facility.

storing dry casks at closed reactors is just plain dumb, no doubt
security is lax.

I doubt your "no doubt".

Jeff
--
" Solids are a branch of fireworks, not rocketry. :-) :-) ", Henry
Spencer 1/28/2011