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Are we a space faring nation or not!?



 
 
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  #21  
Old July 12th 10, 10:55 PM posted to sci.space.policy
John M[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?


"Brad Guth" wrote in message
...

Our nearby zero delta-V of the Earth-moon L1 (Selene L1) is 97% solar
illuminated (100% if there's a sufficient halo orbit established). A
tethered element can safely reach a platform of emf/photon
transmitters to within 2r of Earth.


Of course the tether dipole energy itself is going to be substantial.


Are you going to suggest that location is useless?



Well I think if some goal is likely to take more than a
decade or so, it becomes too hard to get it started.
Like the idea of mining asteroids and such, if it's a good
fifty years out, it's hard to get excited about it.

Just out of curiosity, it's hard to respond to your posts
because my browser will never include the in the reply.
So one has to go type it in line by line to respond.
That only seems to happen to a few posters, so how
have you got your browser set?




~ BG


  #22  
Old July 13th 10, 12:33 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Brad Guth[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,175
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?

On Jul 12, 2:55*pm, "John M" wrote:
"Brad Guth" wrote in message

...

Our nearby zero delta-V of the Earth-moon L1 (Selene L1) is 97% solar
illuminated (100% if there's a sufficient halo orbit established). *A
tethered element can safely reach a platform of emf/photon
transmitters to within 2r of Earth.
Of course the tether dipole energy itself is going to be substantial.
Are you going to suggest that location is useless?


Well I think if some goal is likely to take more than a
decade or so, it becomes too hard to get it started.
Like the idea of mining asteroids and such, if it's a good
fifty years out, it's hard to get excited about it.


We could have accomplished our first Gateway/OASIS outpost at Selene
L1 as of 4 decades ago, at about a tenth the cost of those poorly
documented and still highly questionable Apollo missions. So, I
really don't see the problem(s) or whatever insurmountable
considerations, not even of that primitive space faring era. With the
same investment as Apollo, we could have parked a thousand tonnes in
that zero delta-V location, as well as within less than half the time.


Just out of curiosity, it's hard to respond to your posts
because my browser will never include the in the reply.
So one has to go type it in line by line to respond.
That only seems to happen to a few posters, so how
have you got your browser set?


Now that's interesting as hell, because my "FireFox" never seems to
have that problem, as well as I never use special fonts or fool with
posting in HTML.

It's more likely that those in charge of how Google Groups is taking
and storing or archiving my contributions, is trying to make it as
difficult as possible for the average person to read and respond. I
wouldn't be surprised if a good many Usenet/newsgroup servers entirely
exclude anything I have to say.

For example, all public K-12s are pretty much kept unaware of Google's
Usenet/newsgroups, and perhaps that's because it's intentionally
obfuscated or otherwise banished. Public funded universities may also
be on the NO FLY list, so that they too are not allowed to read or
otherwise research via the same public internet as you and I.

~ BG
  #23  
Old July 13th 10, 11:59 PM posted to sci.space.policy
John M[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?


"Brad Guth" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 2:55 pm, "John M" wrote:
"Brad Guth" wrote in message

...

Our nearby zero delta-V of the Earth-moon L1 (Selene L1) is 97% solar
illuminated (100% if there's a sufficient halo orbit established). A
tethered element can safely reach a platform of emf/photon
transmitters to within 2r of Earth.
Of course the tether dipole energy itself is going to be substantial.
Are you going to suggest that location is useless?


Well I think if some goal is likely to take more than a
decade or so, it becomes too hard to get it started.
Like the idea of mining asteroids and such, if it's a good
fifty years out, it's hard to get excited about it.


We could have accomplished our first Gateway/OASIS outpost at Selene
L1 as of 4 decades ago, at about a tenth the cost of those poorly
documented and still highly questionable Apollo missions. So, I
really don't see the problem(s) or whatever insurmountable
considerations, not even of that primitive space faring era. With the
same investment as Apollo, we could have parked a thousand tonnes in
that zero delta-V location, as well as within less than half the time.


Just out of curiosity, it's hard to respond to your posts
because my browser will never include the in the reply.
So one has to go type it in line by line to respond.
That only seems to happen to a few posters, so how
have you got your browser set?


Now that's interesting as hell, because my "FireFox" never seems to
have that problem, as well as I never use special fonts or fool with
posting in HTML.

It's more likely that those in charge of how Google Groups is taking
and storing or archiving my contributions, is trying to make it as
difficult as possible for the average person to read and respond. I
wouldn't be surprised if a good many Usenet/newsgroup servers entirely
exclude anything I have to say.

For example, all public K-12s are pretty much kept unaware of Google's
Usenet/newsgroups, and perhaps that's because it's intentionally
obfuscated or otherwise banished. Public funded universities may also
be on the NO FLY list, so that they too are not allowed to read or
otherwise research via the same public internet as you and I.

~ BG



.................................................. ...............

It's probably a fluke of outlook, but when I hit reply to your
posts I get it just like above, with no 's added.
If that's true for others, they'd likely find it a hassle to
respond, or just quote a single sentence of yours to
reply to.





  #24  
Old July 14th 10, 12:45 AM posted to sci.space.policy
John M[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?


"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
news
On 7/5/2010 2:31 PM, John M wrote:

The Air Force has clearly recognized that unmanned is their future.
It's time NASA admitted the same. I've got nothing against the
ISS, but mining operations on the Moon and asteroids is just plain
idiotic. How much would it cost, and how long would it take to
build a factory beyond low orbit? Too much.


Oh, the military would be back into manned space in a minute if someone
threw the money at them to do it.
Remember "Hot Eagle" and SUSTAIN?:
http://defensetech.org/2005/09/19/ma...in-spaaaaaace/


Pat



I bet there's no shortage of things the military would like to build.
I found this UAV roadmap from the Dod. More remote control planes
than you can shake a stick at. It appears all those local 'model
airports'
around the country are secretly run by Darpa~
http://www.fas.org/irp/program/colle...oadmap2005.pdf

  #25  
Old July 14th 10, 08:31 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Brad Guth[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,175
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?

On Jul 13, 3:59*pm, "John M" wrote:
"Brad Guth" wrote in message

...
On Jul 12, 2:55 pm, "John M" wrote:

"Brad Guth" wrote in message


....


Our nearby zero delta-V of the Earth-moon L1 (Selene L1) is 97% solar
illuminated (100% if there's a sufficient halo orbit established). A
tethered element can safely reach a platform of emf/photon
transmitters to within 2r of Earth.
Of course the tether dipole energy itself is going to be substantial.
Are you going to suggest that location is useless?


Well I think if some goal is likely to take more than a
decade or so, it becomes too hard to get it started.
Like the idea of mining asteroids and such, if it's a good
fifty years out, it's hard to get excited about it.


We could have accomplished our first Gateway/OASIS outpost at Selene
L1 as of 4 decades ago, at about a tenth the cost of those poorly
documented and still highly questionable Apollo missions. *So, I
really don't see the problem(s) or whatever insurmountable
considerations, not even of that primitive space faring era. *With the
same investment as Apollo, we could have parked a thousand tonnes in
that zero delta-V location, as well as within less than half the time.


Just out of curiosity, it's hard to respond to your posts
because my browser will never include the in the reply.
So one has to go type it in line by line to respond.
That only seems to happen to a few posters, so how
have you got your browser set?


Now that's interesting as hell, because my "FireFox" never seems to
have that problem, as well as I never use special fonts or fool with
posting in HTML.

It's more likely that those in charge of how Google Groups is taking
and storing or archiving my contributions, is trying to make it as
difficult as possible for the average person to read and respond. *I
wouldn't be surprised if a good many Usenet/newsgroup servers entirely
exclude anything I have to say.

For example, all public K-12s are pretty much kept unaware of Google's
Usenet/newsgroups, and perhaps that's because it's intentionally
obfuscated or otherwise banished. *Public funded universities may also
be on the NO FLY list, so that they too are not allowed to read or
otherwise research via the same public internet as you and I.

*~ BG

.................................................. ..............

It's probably a fluke of outlook, but when I hit reply to your
posts I get it just like above, with no 's added.
If that's true for others, they'd likely find it a hassle to
respond, or just quote a single sentence of yours to
reply to.


That's OK, even though OUTLOOK is somewhat dysfunctional, I can still
deal with it.

Try using the Google Groups posting interface. For one thing you will
no longer be loading up your hard-drive with excessive Usenet/
newsgroup stuff. I use WORD or whatever basic editor to manage my
typing and to then cut and paste whatever context to/from Google
Groups, thus saving my stuff and whatever other Usenet context that
seems worth keeping on hand.

There's only a few tricks to learning and using Google Groups in order
to get the best out of their Usenet/newsgroups. Very few ever bother
to reply anyway, perhaps not more than one out of a hundred that read
our stuff ever bother to contribute (could be a few as one out of a
thousand).

~ BG
  #26  
Old July 20th 10, 06:07 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Eric Chomko[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,853
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?

On Jul 13, 7:45*pm, "John M" wrote:
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message

news
On 7/5/2010 2:31 PM, John M wrote:


The Air Force has clearly recognized that unmanned is their future.
It's time NASA admitted the same. I've got nothing against the
ISS, but mining operations on the Moon and asteroids is just plain
idiotic. How much would it cost, and how long would it take to
build a factory beyond low orbit? Too much.


Oh, the military would be back into manned space in a minute if someone
threw the money at them to do it.
Remember "Hot Eagle" and SUSTAIN?:
http://defensetech.org/2005/09/19/ma...in-spaaaaaace/


Pat


I bet there's no shortage of things the military would like to build.
I found this UAV roadmap from the Dod. More remote control planes
than you can *shake *a stick at. *It appears all those local 'model
airports'
around the country are secretly *run by Darpa~http://www.fas.org/irp/program/colle...oadmap2005.pdf


Who knew!?! The ones I have seen stand around in civilian clothes
looking like actual hobbyists with remote contollers in their hands.
But in reality...
  #27  
Old July 20th 10, 07:38 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Brad Guth[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,175
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?

On Jul 17, 9:07*am, Fred J. McCall wrote:
"John M" wrote:

Just out of curiosity, it's hard to respond to your posts
because my browser will never include the in the reply.
So one has to go type it in line by line to respond.
That only seems to happen to a few posters, so how
have you got your browser set?


That's because you're posting via Outhouse Distress and he's posting
via Goggle Gropes. *Since neither qualifies as a decent Usenet
Newsreader, you get what you get.

There are add-ons you can get that supposedly help with this sort of
misfeature on your side. *For example:

http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

However, the best solution is to dump the MS crap and use a real
newsreader.

--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
*man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
*all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --George Bernard Shaw


Perhaps you only like your private newsreader because it holds
millions of active killfiles, so that you only get to read whatever
100% agrees with your mindset.

~ BG
  #28  
Old July 20th 10, 07:43 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Brad Guth[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,175
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?

On Jul 6, 7:21*am, Michael Gallagher wrote:
On Mon, 5 Jul 2010 18:31:11 -0400, "John M" wrote:

....The Air Force has clearly recognized that unmanned is their future .....


Assuming the Air Force never takes an interest in a "miltary version"
Boeing's CST-100. *But they already run the pads that the 100's likely
launch vehicles launch from anyway,and they have a histor of trying
for their own manned program, *so it's not that big a leap for the
USAF to get back into a manned program. *All they need is a general
with some pulll to like that idea. *That'll be after the CST-100 has
started flying, of course.

....The longer term
the project, the less chance for success.


That's my problem: *Why do they have to be long term at all? *They
should be quicker than that!

"I am not A big, fat panda. *I am THE big, fat panda" -- Po, Kung Fu Panda


Being quick is often a fore-certain death sentence to those most at
risk.

It seems our government is in no great hurry to accomplish anything,
other than maximizing job security and protecting those nifty COL
benefits.

~ BG
  #29  
Old July 21st 10, 12:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy
LSMFT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 42
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?

No, we are the warmonger nation. War at all costs. War answer to all
problems. Warmonger nation.



--
LSMFT

I haven't spoken to my wife in 18 months.
I don't like to interrupt her.
  #30  
Old July 25th 10, 01:34 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Brad Guth[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,175
Default Are we a space faring nation or not!?

On Jul 21, 4:15*am, LSMFT wrote:
No, we are the warmonger nation. War at all costs. War answer to all
problems. Warmonger nation.

--
LSMFT

I haven't spoken to my wife in 18 months.
I don't like to interrupt her.


You got that right. We also tend to false flag those wars.

~ BG
 




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