Sea Bed Mining - Prefigures Off-World Mining

http://www.3news.co.nz/Seabed-mining...1/Default.aspx

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham...ent_map_en.svg

The Chatham rise, West of the Chatham Islands, is an interesting area of Zelandia submerged continent.

Consider a self replicating machine that uses a fusion torch to break down the ocean floor into its component atoms, take the resulting ion flow and recombine them in controlled ways to make whatever molecular or elemental materials desired, using additive manufacturing, 3D printing, techniques, to create whatever machinery is desired.

Such a system self replicates and grows exponentially.

Energy, not material limits this growth.

Fortunately, Earth's crust consists of 11 ppm Lithium-6 Deuteride. This is a particularly energetic fusion fuel that is easily made to support a fusion power cycle using a process first described in 1950 by German physicist Ulrich Jetter, and reduced to practice three years later by the USA and USSR.

So, one metric ton of rock, about 350 litres, contains 375 milligrams of Lithium-6 Deuteride, which releases 99.2 gigajoules of energy.

Since a tonne of rock is reduced to an ionized plasma with the application of 40 gigajoules, rock is processed into any desired thing, and produces significant amounts of fusion fuel besides! To be exact, 59.2 gigajoules of energy, plus whatever else is desired per ton of rock processed.

Consider a snake-like machine that is 10 cm in diameter and 3.183 meters long, equipped with a fusion powered torch at its 'mouth' and a 3D print head at its 'tail'. This device has the capacity to dissolve rock into a plasma, conduct that plasma down delay lines to separate atoms according to atomic weight, and then recombine those atoms to produce any desired material, and then assemble materials into any desired object.

Moving at 0.1 meters per second (0.36 kph) the device runs at a power level of 900 kilowatts and processes 8 tonnes per hour. Made principally of silicon and aluminum the system masses 11.65 kg empty and processes 58.32 kg of rock throughout its interior.

Oxygen 46.6%
Silicon 27.7%
Aluminum 8.1%
Iron 5.0%
Calcium 3.6%
Sodium 2.8%
Potassium 2.6%
Magnesium 2.1%
All other 1.5%

The system takes 1/10th the aluminum from the rock along with 1/30th the silicon from the rock, to make copies of itself. In this way it doubles its size every 6 minutes when moving at full speed while processing 57.69x its weight in rock in the process.

The diameter increases by 1.26x every doubling period, until a depth and width of 100 meters is reached. This is achieved in 3 hours after dropping the original 'snake' overboard. The snake forms a circle 1.0183 meters in diameter on the sea floor initially. With its mouth offset from its tail by 10 cm. It then begins to spiral outward along a logarithmic spiral increasing diameter and depth and length as it moves.

r = 0.5066 * EXP( 0.0053468 * degrees )

Reaching 100 meters in depth and width restricts further growth only along the width. SO, after 100 meters depth, that depth of 100 meters is maintained, and only width increases. The spiral now fully filled - and length fixed at 3,183 meters length, width growing 2x every doubling period after that 3 hour 'growth' phase.

A cubic kilometre of sea bed is fully processed by the ever widening machine in another 33 minutes. Here the spiral covers an area 7.9 km wide by 4.9 km tall by 0.1 km deep. It has processed 2,880 billion kg of materials of which 575 billion kg self replicating machinery whilst the balance 2,305 billion kg of materials are available for recovery.

All this in 3 hours and 33 minutes from the time the system was originally dropped to the bottom of the ocean and switched on.

200 billion kg of Aluminum, 397 million kg of Copper, 56,100 kg of Gold, 323 billion kg of Iron, 676 billion kg of Oxygen, 31,400 kg of Osmium, 696 billion kg of Silicon, 783,000 kg of Silver, 128 million kg of Thorium, 29 billion kg of Titanium, 18.6 million kg of Tungsten, 39.4 million kg of Uranium.

10.8 million kg of Lithium which translates to 810,000 kg of Lithium-6. 139 million kg of Hydrogen which translates to 43,368 kg of deuterium. Which means that 226,632 kg of Deuterium must be extracted from water, which is no problem at the ocean floor, since these figures related to rock that has been dehydrated.

The oxygen released increases average oxygen content of the Earth's atmosphere by 565 ppb! The copper is worth $2.94 billion at today's prices. The gold is worth $2.28 billion at today's prices. The silver at $524 million. The aluminum is worth $362.12 billion at today's prices.

The energy still available in the form of Li-6/Deuteride is equivalent to 26.4 trillion barrels of crude oil equivalent. This is worth over $2.7 quadrillion at today's prices! Only 18% of this total energy when used to convert sea water to hydrogen, and then use the hydrogen to absorb CO2 to produce fresh water and plastics, returns the Earth's atmosphere to preindustrial levels of CO2 over the course of a few weeks.

A total of 400,000 square kilometres of engineered foamed silica is used to create an engineered floating mat along the Kermadic trench upon which buildings and other structures are placed to support the habitation of 8 billion persons over the course of a few months after that.

http://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/0440d/report.pdf

http://pubs.usgs.gov/circ/1953/0285/report.pdf

Element Abundance At Wgt. At. Wgt. Fraction kg/km3

Actinium 227 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Aluminum 8.1% 26.9815 2.19E+000 8.71E-002 2.01E+011
Americium 243 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Antimony 0.00002% 121.76 2.44E-005 9.70E-007 2.24E+006
Argon 0.00015% 39.948 5.99E-005 2.39E-006 5.50E+006
Arsenic 0.00021% 74.9216 1.57E-004 6.27E-006 1.45E+007
Astatine 210 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000

Barium 0.034% 137.327 4.67E-002 1.86E-003 4.29E+009
Berkelium 247 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Beryllium 0.00019% 9.01218 1.71E-005 6.82E-007 1.57E+006
Bismuth 2.50E-008 208.980 5.22E-006 2.08E-007 4.80E+005
Bohrium 264 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Boron 0.00086% 10.811 9.30E-005 3.70E-006 8.54E+006
Bromine 0.0003% 79.904 2.40E-004 9.55E-006 2.20E+007

Cadmium 0.000015% 112.411 1.69E-005 6.72E-007 1.55E+006
Calcium 5% 40.078 2.00E+000 7.98E-002 1.84E+011
Californium 251 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Carbon 0.18% 12.0107 2.16E-002 8.61E-004 1.99E+009
Cerium 0.006% 140.116 8.41E-003 3.35E-004 7.72E+008
Cesium 0.00019% 132.905 2.53E-004 1.01E-005 2.32E+007
Chlorine0.017% 35.453 6.03E-003 2.40E-004 5.54E+008
Chromium 0.014% 51.9961 7.28E-003 2.90E-004 6.69E+008
Cobalt 0.003% 58.9332 1.77E-003 7.04E-005 1.62E+008
Copper 0.0068% 63.546 4.32E-003 1.72E-004 3.97E+008
Curium 247 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000

Darmstadtium 281 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Dubnium 262 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Dysprosium 0.00062% 162.5 1.01E-003 4.01E-005 9.25E+007

Einsteinium 252 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Erbium 0.0003% 167.259 5.02E-004 2.00E-005 4.61E+007
Europium 0.00018% 151.964 2.74E-004 1.09E-005 2.51E+007

Fermium 257 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Fluorine 0.054% 18.9984 1.03E-002 4.09E-004 9.42E+008
Francium 223 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000

Gadolinium 0.00052% 157.25 8.18E-004 3.26E-005 7.51E+007
Gallium 0.0019% 69.723 1.32E-003 5.28E-005 1.22E+008
Germanium 0.00014% 72.64 1.02E-004 4.05E-006 9.34E+006
Gold 3.10E-009 196.966 6.11E-007 2.43E-008 5.61E+004

Hafnium 0.00033% 178.49 5.89E-004 2.35E-005 5.41E+007
Hassium 277 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Helium 5.50E-009 4.0026 2.20E-008 8.77E-010 2.02E+003
Holmium 0.00012% 164.930 1.98E-004 7.89E-006 1.82E+007
Hydrogen 0.15% 1.00794 1.51E-003 6.02E-005 1.39E+008

Indium 0.000016% 114.818 1.84E-005 7.32E-007 1.69E+006
Iodine 0.000049% 126.904 6.22E-005 2.48E-006 5.71E+006
Iridium 4.00E-010 192.217 7.69E-008 3.06E-009 7.06E+003
Iron 6.3% 55.845 3.52E+000 1.40E-001 3.23E+011

Krypton 1.50E-010 83.798 1.26E-008 5.01E-010 1.15E+003

Lanthanum 0.0034% 138.905 4.72E-003 1.88E-004 4.34E+008
Lawrencium 262 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Lead 0.00099% 207.2 2.05E-003 8.17E-005 1.88E+008
Lithium 0.0017% 6.941 1.18E-004 4.70E-006 1.08E+007
Lutetium 0.000056% 174.967 9.80E-005 3.90E-006 9.00E+006

Magnesium 2.9% 24.305 7.05E-001 2.81E-002 6.47E+010
Manganese 0.11% 54.9380 6.04E-002 2.41E-003 5.55E+009
Meitnerium 268 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Mendelevium 258 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Mercury 6.70E-008 200.59 1.34E-005 5.36E-007 1.23E+006
Molybdenum 0.00011% 95.94 1.06E-004 4.21E-006 9.69E+006

Neodymium 0.0033% 144.24 4.76E-003 1.90E-004 4.37E+008
Neon 3.00E-009 20.1797 6.05E-008 2.41E-009 5.56E+003
Neptunium 237 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Nickel 0.0089% 58.6934 5.22E-003 2.08E-004 4.80E+008
Niobium 0.0017% 92.9063 1.58E-003 6.29E-005 1.45E+008
Nitrogen 0.002% 14.0067 2.80E-004 1.12E-005 2.57E+007
Nobelium 259 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000

Osmium 1.80E-009 190.23 3.42E-007 1.36E-008 3.14E+004
Oxygen 46% 15.9994 7.36E+000 2.93E-001 6.76E+011

Palladium 6.30E-009 106.42 6.70E-007 2.67E-008 6.16E+004
Phosphorus 0.099% 30.9737 3.07E-002 1.22E-003 2.82E+009
Platinum 3.70E-008 195.078 7.22E-006 2.88E-007 6.63E+005
Plutonium 244 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Polonium 209 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Potassium 1.5% 39.0983 5.86E-001 2.34E-002 5.39E+010
Praseodymium0.00086% 140.907 1.21E-003 4.83E-005 1.11E+008
Promethium 145 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Protactinium 9.90E-014 231.035 2.29E-011 9.11E-013 2.10E+000

Radium 9.90E-014 226 2.24E-011 8.92E-013 2.05E+000
Radon 222 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Rhenium 2.60E-009 186.207 4.84E-007 1.93E-008 4.45E+004
Rhodium 7.00E-010 102.905 7.20E-008 2.87E-009 6.62E+003
Roentgenium 272 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Rubidium 0.006% 85.4678 5.13E-003 2.04E-004 4.71E+008
Ruthenium 9.90E-010 101.07 1.00E-007 3.99E-009 9.19E+003
Rutherfordium 261 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000

Samarium 0.0006% 150.36 9.02E-004 3.59E-005 8.29E+007
Scandium 0.0026% 44.9559 1.17E-003 4.66E-005 1.07E+008
Seaborgium 266 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Selenium 5.00E-008 78.96 3.95E-006 1.57E-007 3.63E+005
Silicon 27% 28.0855 7.58E+000 3.02E-001 6.96E+011
Silver 7.90E-008 107.868 8.52E-006 3.40E-007 7.83E+005
Sodium 2.3% 22.9897 5.29E-001 2.11E-002 4.86E+010
Strontium 0.036% 87.62 3.15E-002 1.26E-003 2.90E+009
Sulfur 0.042% 32.065 1.35E-002 5.37E-004 1.24E+009

Tantalum 0.00017% 180.947 3.08E-004 1.23E-005 2.83E+007
Technetium 98 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Tellurium 9.90E-010 127.6 1.26E-007 5.03E-009 1.16E+004
Terbium 0.000093% 158.92 1.48E-004 5.89E-006 1.36E+007
Thallium 0.000053% 204.383 1.08E-004 4.32E-006 9.95E+006
Thorium 0.0006% 232.0381 1.39E-003 5.55E-005 1.28E+008
Thulium 0.000045% 168.934 7.60E-005 3.03E-006 6.98E+006
Tin 0.00022% 118.71 2.61E-004 1.04E-005 2.40E+007
Titanium 0.66% 47.867 3.16E-001 1.26E-002 2.90E+010
Tungsten 0.00011% 183.84 2.02E-004 8.06E-006 1.86E+007

Ununbium 285 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Ununhexium 292 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Ununoctium 294 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Ununpentium 288 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Ununquadium 289 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Ununseptium 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Ununtrium 284 0.00E+000 0.00E+000 0.00E+000
Uranium 0.00018% 238.028 4.28E-004 1.71E-005 3.94E+007

Vanadium 0.019% 50.9415 9.68E-003 3.86E-004 8.89E+008

Xenon 2.00E-011 131.293 2.63E-009 1.05E-010 2.41E+002

Ytterbium 0.00028% 173.04 4.85E-004 1.93E-005 4.45E+007
Yttrium 0.0029% 88.9058 2.58E-003 1.03E-004 2.37E+008

Zinc 0.0078% 65.409 5.10E-003 2.03E-004 4.69E+008
Zirconium 0.013% 91.224 1.19E-002 4.73E-004 1.09E+009

On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 10:47:32 PM UTC+12, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:



http://www.3news.co.nz/Seabed-mining...1/Default.aspx



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatham...ent_map_en.svg



The Chatham rise, West of the Chatham Islands, is an interesting area of Zelandia submerged continent.



Consider a self replicating machine that uses a fusion torch to break down the ocean floor into its component atoms, take the resulting ion flow and recombine them in controlled ways to make whatever molecular or elemental materials desired, using additive manufacturing, 3D printing, techniques, to create whatever machinery is desired.





Consider magic.


Magic doesn't exist. Jetter cycle fusion does. As does self-replicating machinery.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/105275987/...n-Applications

http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRap






Such a system self replicates and grows exponentially.



Energy, not material limits this growth.



Fortunately, Earth's crust consists of 11 ppm Lithium-6 Deuteride. This is a particularly energetic fusion fuel that is easily made to support a fusion power cycle using a process first described in 1950 by German physicist Ulrich Jetter, and reduced to practice three years later by the USA and USSR.





No, it is not "a particularly energetic fusion fuel".


Yes it is.


voluminous arithmetic elided



Erasing data is not a valid form of reasoning. If you actually;

(1) defined terms 'what is meant by an energetic fusion fuel' and
(2) demonstrated that soil met that definition,

then you would actually have engaged in a logical support of your baseless assertions.

You did not.

You erased data.

Therefore, you very likely know that your assertions have no basis whatever..

That makes you, according to George Carlin, a miserable little **** who should be ignored.

* * *

Each kilogram of soil and rock, about 357 cc of solid, contain enough Lithium-6 and Deuterium to not only turn all the rock into a hot plasma, from which all the atoms may be separated according to their atomic weight, and then recombined in an additive process to make anything, but retrieve enough spare Lithium-6 and Deuterium doing so, to release the equivalent of a half a barrel of crude oil!

Let's see how I come to these conclusions!

Jetter cycle fusion uses Lithium-6 and Deuterium to create significant amounts of energy. The crustal abundance, by weight, of Lithium is 1.18e-4 parts of the total.

That means in a kilogram of material 118 milligrams of Lithium exist.

Now, in naturally occurring lithium 7.5% or 8.85 milligrams is Lithium-6.

Lithium-6 is 75% of Lithium Deuteride by weight.

Since Lithium-6 is the limiting ingredient, in a kilogram of crust there is 11.8 milligrams of nuclear fuel possible.

Now, Lithium-6 and Deuterium produce 22.4 MeV per reaction this translates to 3,121.1 megajoules of energy in 11.8 milligrams - from the material contained in every kilogram of soil.

Since you only need 40 megajoules of energy to reduce each kilogram to plasma and separate out all the elements by atomic weight, you can see that a considerable amount of energy is available


The amount of energy released when burning a barrel of crude oil is 6.1 Gigajoules. 3.05 Gigajoules is half a barrel of oil - nearly equal to the 3,081.1 megajoules of excess energy remaining after allowance is made for the energy needed to extract the material from the rock in the first place.




--

"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar

territory."

--G. Behn

In article ,
says...
Let's see how I come to these conclusions!

Jetter cycle fusion uses Lithium-6 and Deuterium to create significant amounts of energy. The crustal abundance, by weight, of Lithium is 1.18e-4 parts of the total.

That means in a kilogram of material 118 milligrams of Lithium exist.

Now, in naturally occurring lithium 7.5% or 8.85 milligrams is Lithium-6.

Lithium-6 is 75% of Lithium Deuteride by weight.

Since Lithium-6 is the limiting ingredient, in a kilogram of crust there is 11.8 milligrams of nuclear fuel possible.

Now, Lithium-6 and Deuterium produce 22.4 MeV per reaction this translates to 3,121.1 megajoules of energy in 11.8 milligrams - from the material contained in every kilogram of soil.

Since you only need 40 megajoules of energy to reduce each kilogram to plasma and separate out all the elements by atomic weight, you can see that a considerable amount of energy is available


The amount of energy released when burning a barrel of crude oil is 6.1 Gigajoules. 3.05 Gigajoules is half a barrel of oil - nearly equal to the 3,081.1 megajoules of excess energy remaining after allowance is made for the energy needed to extract the material from the rock in the first place.


And you just wave your magic wand to get the Li6 out.

This is your problem, Mookie. Your usual argument amounts to "first a
miracle happens, then I multiply".


So now Mook is an expert in nuclear fusion and in self replicating
robotics? He is a self proclaimed expert in so many fields that he is
either the smartest man alive, or he is suffering from delusions of
grandeur. Let's use some Mook math to find out which is true...

Let's assume that Mook isn't actually certifiably insane, but does
suffer from delusions of grandeur. From Wikipedia, "About 10% of
healthy people experience grandiose thoughts but do not meet full
criteria for a diagnosis of GD.". This little fact is from:

Knowles, R.; McCarthy-Jones S.; Rowse G. (2011). "Grandiose
delusions: A review and theoretical integration of cognitive
and affective perspectives". Clinical Psychology Review 31
(4): 684-696. doi:10.1016/j.cpr.2011.02.009.

Currently, the world's population is estimated at a bit over 7 billion
people. This estimate comes from the United States Census Bureau
(USCB):

"U.S. Census Bureau - World POPClock Projection". July 2012-
July 2013 data. The number on this page is automatically
updated daily. "World Population Clock - Worldometers".

So, the odds of Mook being the smartest person in the world versus
suffering from delusions of grandeur is 1 in 700 million. Yikes!

So, using Mook style logic and math, he must suffer from delusions of
grandeur.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

Fred maintains against all evidence that Lithium-6 Deuterium fusion does not exist, when in fact it was demonstrated in 1954 and reduced to power production in 1958 under Project Sherwood.

Fred also maintains against all evidence that self-replicating machines do not exist, when in fact theoretical details were worked out in 1948 by Johnny vonNeuman, and reduced to practice by Vik Oliver in 2005, which resulted in the Rep Rap project.

Both of these facts are easily researched by anyone with a search engine.

Given the current technology it is clear that we have the ability to transform worlds. The only thing we lack is the will to do it. That stems from the profound ignorance.

On Thursday, June 19, 2014 11:59:27 PM UTC+12, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,

says...

Let's see how I come to these conclusions!



Jetter cycle fusion uses Lithium-6 and Deuterium to create significant amounts of energy. The crustal abundance, by weight, of Lithium is 1.18e-4 parts of the total.



That means in a kilogram of material 118 milligrams of Lithium exist.



Now, in naturally occurring lithium 7.5% or 8.85 milligrams is Lithium-6.



Lithium-6 is 75% of Lithium Deuteride by weight.



Since Lithium-6 is the limiting ingredient, in a kilogram of crust there is 11.8 milligrams of nuclear fuel possible.



Now, Lithium-6 and Deuterium produce 22.4 MeV per reaction this translates to 3,121.1 megajoules of energy in 11.8 milligrams - from the material contained in every kilogram of soil.



Since you only need 40 megajoules of energy to reduce each kilogram to plasma and separate out all the elements by atomic weight, you can see that a considerable amount of energy is available





The amount of energy released when burning a barrel of crude oil is 6.1 Gigajoules. 3.05 Gigajoules is half a barrel of oil - nearly equal to the 3,081.1 megajoules of excess energy remaining after allowance is made for the energy needed to extract the material from the rock in the first place..





And you just wave your magic wand to get the Li6 out.



This is your problem, Mookie. Your usual argument amounts to "first a

miracle happens, then I multiply".





So now Mook is an expert in nuclear fusion and in self replicating

robotics?


One doesn't have to be an expert to know the basics. If I've made an error, please point them out to me. That's the basis of any real discussion.

He is a self proclaimed expert in so many fields that he is
either the smartest man alive, or he is suffering from delusions of
grandeur.

You are setting up another straw man argument leading to a false choice. One doesn't have to be the smartest man alive to be smart enough to read and understand the implication of any scientific or engineering journal article.

The basis really is mathematics and a solid understanding of physics and logic. I recommend Kahn Academy and the Feynman Lectures on Physics. These are both accessible and well paced for any intelligent person.

http://www.feynmanlectures.info/
https://www.khanacademy.org/

Reading every issue of Scientific American, Nature and Science from the time I was eight years old also helps, and collecting back issues of these magazines from the library going back to the 1920s also adds to my knowledge.

I also fell in love with the book, "How to Solve It" by George Polya after it was recommended by Martin Gardner's "Mathematical Games" column in Scientific American back in 1968, on the 20th anniversary of the book's original publication.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6558195/Ge...ow-to-Solve-It

I also loved C.L. Stong's column 'The Amateur Scientist' - and with my dad and grand dad's assistance built an astrophysical observatory in my back yard, built an atom smasher, among other things. I urge anyone with the ability to make cabinets or stuff circuit boards to get a copy of this book and do these things for yourself.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/librar..._scientist.pdf

I won many science fair projects when I was young hauling in one or another of these projects. When I judge science fair projects at my local school I always have fond memories of these sorts of things.

When I teach math to others I use a simple pattern. I build a table based on different things you can do with different kinds or classes of numbers.

The things you can do are;

arithmetic,
algebra,
calculus,
differential equations,
advanced algebra,

Now, these are;

arithmetic - asks questions about numbers and answers in numbers

algebra - deals with relationships between numbers

calculus - deals with change

differential equations - deals with relationships between rates of change

advanced algebra - notes that calculus is to diff. eq. as arithmetic is to algebra - and extracts some deep understanding of each. From this we then do a few simple examples, like Boolean Algebra and the Hamiltonian...

Now, what you can do with numbers is distinctly different than what numbers are. Here you have

scalars - where only the size matters

vectors - where size and direction both matter - a list of scalars

tensors - where many sizes and directions are associated - a list of vectors - a table of scalars

spinors - a list of tensors - a table of vectors - an atlas of scalars

twistors - Developed by Roger Penrose in 1967 while this is unique to 4D Minkowski space and the (2,2) metric signature, and does not generalize to other dimensions or metric signatures, one can see a more general form. That's because there is an isomorphism between the conformal group Spin(4,2) and SU(2,2), which forms a group of unitary transformations of determinant 1 over a four-dimensional complex vector space, allowing transformation of twistors by vectors. So, moving in this sort of space, allows us to keep track of changes due to that motion.

Now, most people who master Differential Equations using Vectors can read most engineering and scientific literature with no problems.

Let's use some Mook math to find out which is true...
Let's assume that Mook isn't actually certifiably insane, but does
suffer from delusions of grandeur.

Why?

From Wikipedia, "About 10% of
healthy people experience grandiose thoughts but do not meet full
criteria for a diagnosis of GD.". This little fact is from:

Knowles, R.; McCarthy-Jones S.; Rowse G. (2011). "Grandiose
delusions: A review and theoretical integration of cognitive
and affective perspectives". Clinical Psychology Review 31

(4): 684-696. doi:10.1016/j.cpr.2011.02.009.



Currently, the world's population is estimated at a bit over 7 billion

people. This estimate comes from the United States Census Bureau

(USCB):



"U.S. Census Bureau - World POPClock Projection". July 2012-
July 2013 data. The number on this page is automatically
updated daily. "World Population Clock - Worldometers".

So, the odds of Mook being the smartest person in the world versus
suffering from delusions of grandeur is 1 in 700 million. Yikes!


Yes, if you selected me at random from the world population, and didn't analyze (or couldn't analyze) anything I said, you would be justified in thinking I'm not the smartest person in the world.

But that is a false choice established only by your strawman argument. What we really must decide is;

Is Mook smarter than Findley?

Now, let's say, NOT that Mook is the smartest person on Earth. Let's say that Mook is 3 standard deviations above the norm. This has been established by scientific testing. I have an IQ of 168. Or did at the time of the test many years ago. That's well above 3 st deviations - its actually 15 standard deviations above the norm.

http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx

What are the odds that Mook is smarter than Findley?

99.9997094213% or one chance in 344,141

What are the odds that Findley would be confused by Mook?

Almost certain.

So, it is highly unlikely that Findley is smarter than Mook on this basis.



So, using Mook style logic and math, he must suffer from delusions of
grandeur.

Your error in logic stems from the false choice forced on your argument by your strawman. That is, I can be, (and very likely AM) vastly smarter than you, and not be the smartest man in the world (by a long shot!)

In fact there are likely almost 21,000 people smarter than me in the world. It is very unlikely that Findley is one of them.



Jeff

--

"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would

magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper

than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in

and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

Findley will gleefully acknowledge that I reversed the roles of Findley and Mook in the previous post. lol.

I was interrupted in the middle of typing by a friend, and then continued onward after we made dinner plans.

sigh

Just goes to show, no matter how smart you think you are, keeping organized is more important still.

Edison said it best, "1% inspiration, 99% persperation!"

FRED IS A COWARD, he doesnt even believe in what he posts! Thats why all are marked to disappear in X days!!

Fred has also said a driverless car is impossible, and will require a driver behind the wheel.

meanwhile google is about to put on the road driverless cars with no steering wheel, just a stop button, go button, and a place to enter where you are going First models out in 2015, limited to 25 mph.....

which will be fine for a elderly friend of mine. he quit driving some months ago, and really misses the freedom the car provided

In article ,
says...

FRED IS A COWARD, he doesnt even believe in what he posts! Thats
why all are marked to disappear in X days!!

This is not true. You've been told repeatedly how and why the posts are
marked the way they are, but you never do "get it" because you've never
truly understood exactly how Usenet News works. Furthermore, pretty
much any ASCII-text only posting to Usenet News is archived. Because of
this, Fred's posts quite simply can't "disappear" as you assert.

Fred has also said a driverless car is impossible, and will require
a driver behind the wheel.

That's not what he's said. Again, you don't "get it".

meanwhile google is about to put on the road driverless cars with no
steering wheel, just a stop button, go button, and a place to enter
where you are going First models out in 2015, limited to 25 mph.....

Note the Google "driverless" car also has an *emergency stop button*, in
addition to the stop/go button. Here is a cite:

Google?s new driverless car has no brakes or steering wheel
By Gail Sullivan May 28, The Washington Post
http://tinyurl.com/k7w2ve8

In other words, it's not meant to be *completely* autonomous. In fact,
some states have passed or proposed laws that require a licensed driver
in the "driver's seat" of one of these so called "driverless cars"
because someone has to actually hit the emergency stop button if it
encounters an actual emergency. These cars don't have "artificial
intelligence" and therefore cannot cope with he unexpected.

From Wikipedia's page on Google's driverless car: "Nevada's regulations
require a person behind the wheel and one in the passenger?s seat"

which will be fine for a elderly friend of mine. he quit driving
some months ago, and really misses the freedom the car provided

That future may be "soon", but it's not quite here yet. One huge
unknown, besides state laws, is cost. If these "driverless" cars aren't
affordable by a senior citizen on a "fixed income", then your friend
will still be SOL.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On Friday, June 20, 2014 11:37:41 PM UTC+12, Fred J. McCall wrote:
William Mook wrote:





Fred maintains against all evidence that Lithium-6 Deuterium fusion does not exist, when in fact it was demonstrated in 1954 and reduced to power production in 1958 under Project Sherwood.





Fred maintained no such think.

Talking in the third person now Fred? haha - talk about delusions of grandeur.

Mookie is lying,

No I'm not.

else he would show
where I have 'maintained' such a thing.

shrug Fred, Lithium-6 and Deuterium can be made to react to produce large quantities of energy. You supported the description of this process in very dismissive terms as 'magic' - if you now say you believe Lithium-6 and Deuterium can be made to react to release large quantities of energy, we have no argument, and your dismissive comments are retracted.


I guess that's to be expected
from him.

Calling me a liar and making up some outlandish story to support it is just another way to call names. This last statement is more of the same.

As I've pointed out time and time again that's not the way reasonable people discuss things. Its not the way to advance understanding and knowledge.






Fred also maintains against all evidence that self-replicating machines do not exist, when in fact theoretical details were worked out in 1948 by Johnny vonNeuman, and reduced to practice by Vik Oliver in 2005, which resulted in the Rep Rap project.







Fred maintained no such think.

Your illeism is a riot Fred! You remind me of Bob Dole when he was running for President, or Flavor Flav during one of his interviews.

The only 'think' I can add to this is - say unga bunga bunga dude! lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ap0lCHfr7NA

Mookie is lying,

No I'm not! This is just more name calling from Fred. tsk. tsk.

else he would show
where I have 'maintained' such a thing.

Nonsense. I wrote about fusion powered self replicating machines I'm developing to mine the Zealandia sea bed on the Chatham Rise. You were very dismissive of the whole idea. If you now believe self replicating machinery exists, we have no disagreement, and your earlier dismissive comments are retracted.

I guess that's to be expected
from him.

Again, making up some outlandish story and then calling me a liar and concluding that's to be expected from me, is just another way to call names and provide absolutely no real reasoning at all!

Fact is, if you are saying that you agree with me that Lithium-6 Deuterium reactions using material extracted from rock can be used to power self replicating machinery to process rock into useful products, then we have no disagreement. If on the other hand, you don't agree with this view, calling me a liar isn't the way to rationally discuss the matter.






Both of these facts are easily researched by anyone with a search engine..





And now comes the usual Mookie 'magical leap'.


See? Look, either you know that Lithium-6 and Deuterium can be made to emit large quantities of heat in a neutron flux when covered by a neutron blanket, or you do not. Either you know that self-replicating machines exist, or you do not. If you know both to be true, it doesn't require a 'magical leap' to realize that

(1) rock contains enough lithium-6 and deuterium to vaporize the rock,
(2) vaporized rock can be assembled into useful compounds,
(3) those compounds can be additively manufactured into products,
(4) those products can self assemble into copies of the original machine,

From there its easy to calculate the reproduction rates based on energy content and natural abundances.




Given the current technology it is clear that we have the ability to transform worlds. The only thing we lack is the will to do it. That stems from the profound ignorance.





Well, I suppose it could be worse. At least he didn't multiply a
bunch of irrelevant things together.

Look, when I print out a floor plan on my large format printer and stretch out in front of a fire (it's winter down here) with a cup of cocoa to review it before sending it to the builder, I am absolutely certain that when my golden retriever comes bounding in wanting to play, he thinks the plans are totally irrelevant. And he's right! For him! However, they're not irrelevant to me because I understand them, while he does not.

Now, I expect more of you and others here than I do of my beloved doggie. However, I recognize that some may not 'get it' and that's okay. Some people aren't that smart. When those type people are also irrational and unpleasant, well, then there's a problem. The only thing to do is point out their error and on occasion rub their nose in their own filth. haha.. pointing out just what miserable little ****s they are.



--

"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."

-- Mark Twain

On Friday, June 20, 2014 11:57:49 PM UTC+12, bob haller wrote:
FRED IS A COWARD, he doesnt even believe in what he posts! Thats why all are marked to disappear in X days!!



Fred has also said a driverless car is impossible, and will require a driver behind the wheel.



meanwhile google is about to put on the road driverless cars with no steering wheel, just a stop button, go button, and a place to enter where you are going First models out in 2015, limited to 25 mph.....



which will be fine for a elderly friend of mine. he quit driving some months ago, and really misses the freedom the car provided

I spoke of drones decades ago that deliver packages as a real game changer. I even wrote an article back in 1980s for Mother Earth News about ballistic missile pizza delivery, lol. I reposted it in these groups and was uniformly attacked by the same individuals as attack me today.

What can explain their 'dedication'? lol.

I figured if I were Navy Intelligence, and took missile proliferation seriously, I would get some imbedded assets to troll these sites and shut down any real information being discussed. There are a variety of ways to do that. All of them can be seen in the record. This isn't directed at any individual. It is consistent though.

Intelligence community - the aerospace community in particular - has very little understanding of crowd sourcing information. Which is too damn bad. They cannot see how much they are hurting America with their idiotic approach. They will pay the ultimate price, with the fall of the American government within the next two decades. And that's too damn bad as well. Unfortunately, there's nothing to fix it. As Joe Campbell says, in 'Hero with a Thousand Faces', "When our day is come for the victory of death, death closes in; there is nothing we can do, except be crucified--and resurrected; dismembered totally, and then reborn."

The best way to deal with such intelligence operation, the Delphi Technique, is to ignore the perps and when that is not possible, to demand of anyone that they give rational reasonable argument, and point out where they are engaging in disinformation.