A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Astronomy Misc
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old September 29th 07, 10:04 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
Pentcho Valev
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,078
Default EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS

Crucial for the derivation is the equation:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
§ 3. Theory of the Transformation of Co-ordinates and Times from a
Stationary System to another System in Uniform Motion of Translation
Relatively to the Former
(1/2)[tau(0,0,0,t) + tau(0,0,0, t + x'/(c-v) + x'/(c+v))] = tau(x',
0,0, t + x'/(c-v))

The notation is confusing but essentially Einstein uses an expression
for the differential of a function of two variables Z=f(X,Y) which
nowadays is used only in chemical thermodynamics:

dZ = (dZ/dX)dX + (dZ/dY)dY

where (dZ/dX) and (dZ/dY) are partial derivarives.

The postulates are four, not two. The two additional postulates are
given he

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/ic...les/chap11.pdf
"11.4 The Lorentz transformations
11.4.1 The derivation
Remarks:
1. We have assumed in eq. (11.16) that Dx and Dt are linear functions
of Dx' and Dt'. And
we have also assumed that A, B, C, and D are constants, that is, they
dependent at most
on v, and not on x,t,x',t'."

Pentcho Valev

  #2  
Old September 29th 07, 01:04 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
Androcles[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,040
Default EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS


"Pentcho Valev" wrote in message
oups.com...
Crucial for the derivation is the equation:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
§ 3. Theory of the Transformation of Co-ordinates and Times from a
Stationary System to another System in Uniform Motion of Translation
Relatively to the Former
(1/2)[tau(0,0,0,t) + tau(0,0,0, t + x'/(c-v) + x'/(c+v))] = tau(x',
0,0, t + x'/(c-v))

The notation is confusing but essentially Einstein uses an expression
for the differential of a function of two variables Z=f(X,Y) which
nowadays is used only in chemical thermodynamics:

dZ = (dZ/dX)dX + (dZ/dY)dY

where (dZ/dX) and (dZ/dY) are partial derivarives.

The postulates are four, not two. The two additional postulates are
given he

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/ic...les/chap11.pdf
"11.4 The Lorentz transformations
11.4.1 The derivation
Remarks:
1. We have assumed in eq. (11.16) that Dx and Dt are linear functions
of Dx' and Dt'. And
we have also assumed that A, B, C, and D are constants, that is, they
dependent at most
on v, and not on x,t,x',t'."

Pentcho Valev

There are a few blunders/quirks in the equation worth noting.

(1/2)[tau(0,0,0,t) + tau(0,0,0, t + x'/(c-v) + x'/(c+v))]
= tau(x',0,0, t + x'/(c-v))


The first is the strange mixture of the coordinate x' (which appears
on the RHS) and the distance x' which is divided by c+v one way
and c-v the other on the LHS.
In the case of Sagnac the distance x is the circumference, rendering
the coordinate x' = 0.

The second is the distance travelled, x in the stationary frame but
x+vt one way and x-vt back again, giving
t = x'/(c-v) but NOT t = (x+vt)/(c+v) on the return.
Again we refer to Sagnac, where the blunder is repeated by others:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...gnacIdiocy.htm
where alpha takes the place of vt.
vt = alpha.R.

The third blunder is the RHS, because for equality we should have
tau(x',0,0, t + x'/(c-v)) = tau(0,0,0, t + x'/(c+v))
which I've highlighted he
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...ket/eq22.A.GIF

The fourth is the (1/2), it's the only non-algebraic term used and
should be [t1-t0]/[t2-t0], thereby correctly matching the term on
the RHS with the LHS.

The fifth is the inclusion of the spatial coordinates in a function
which can only return a single value, there being no function
xi(x',0,0, t+x'/(c-v)).
The sixth is the confusion between frames, for if we have t in the
stationary frame we should have x in the stationary frame also.

The seventh is the inclusion of the redundant terms y=0, z=0, t=0.

Einstein attempted to make his so-called "definition" (actually a false
postulate) 'we establish by definition that the "time" required by
light to travel from A to B equals the "time" it requires to travel from
B to A' valid in both the moving and stationary frames.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonde...rt/tAB=tBA.gif

All in all he was attempting to show off his prowess as a mathematician
by confusing coordinates with distances and including differentiation
in his derivation, but he was certainly NOT a mathematician.





  #3  
Old September 29th 07, 03:12 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
Dirk Van de moortel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 247
Default EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS


"Androcles" wrote in message k...

[snip usual rant]

All in all he was attempting to show off his prowess as a mathematician
by confusing coordinates with distances


You mean like this?
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...eDistance.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...s/Distors.html


and including differentiation


You mean like this?
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...DiffConst.html
?

in his derivation, but he was certainly NOT a mathematician.


Or do you mean like this?
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...SetSolve2.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...ersuasive.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...droDistri.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...ythagoras.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...hlessBite.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...Competent.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di.../UseTrans.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di...es/Sheesh.html
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/di.../SetSolve.html

Dirk Vdm
  #4  
Old September 29th 07, 06:34 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
Igor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS

On Sep 29, 5:04 am, Pentcho Valev babbled:


The notation is confusing but essentially Einstein uses an expression
for the differential of a function of two variables Z=f(X,Y) which
nowadays is used only in chemical thermodynamics:


You don't do much theoretical research, do you?


  #5  
Old September 29th 07, 07:10 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
Dirk Van de moortel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 247
Default EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS


"Igor" wrote in message ups.com...
On Sep 29, 5:04 am, Pentcho Valev babbled:


The notation is confusing but essentially Einstein uses an expression
for the differential of a function of two variables Z=f(X,Y) which
nowadays is used only in chemical thermodynamics:


You don't do much theoretical research, do you?


He does a lot of anal research.

Dirk Vdm

  #6  
Old September 29th 07, 07:48 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
core duo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS

On Sep 29, 8:10 pm, "Dirk Van de moortel" dirkvandemoor...@ThankS-NO-
SperM.hotmail.com wrote:
"Igor" wrote in oglegroups.com...
On Sep 29, 5:04 am, Pentcho Valev babbled:


The notation is confusing but essentially Einstein uses an expression
for the differential of a function of two variables Z=f(X,Y) which
nowadays is used only in chemical thermodynamics:


You don't do much theoretical research, do you?


He does a lot of anal research.

Dirk Vdm


so what, doctors always do anal, are you a doctor?

  #7  
Old September 30th 07, 05:45 AM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
Koobee Wublee
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 815
Default EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS

On Sep 29, 2:04 am, Pentcho Valev wrote:

Crucial for the derivation is the equation:

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/

§ 3. Theory of the Transformation of Co-ordinates and Times from a
Stationary System to another System in Uniform Motion of Translation
Relatively to the Former
(1/2)[tau(0,0,0,t) + tau(0,0,0, t + x'/(c-v) + x'/(c+v))] = tau(x',
0,0, t + x'/(c-v))

The notation is confusing but essentially Einstein uses an expression
for the differential of a function of two variables Z=f(X,Y) which
nowadays is used only in chemical thermodynamics:

dZ = (dZ/dX)dX + (dZ/dY)dY

where (dZ/dX) and (dZ/dY) are partial derivarives.


It is not even that. Einstein, or whoever the actual author was, was
totally hand-waving. 15 years later, Einstein would re-derive the
Lorentz transform from two equations equating zero with zero. The dim-
witted Einstein Dingleberries would be so awe-struck by that
mathemaGic trick. However, some true scholars would call that
bullsh*t and rightfully toss Einstein into the trashcan labeled
'NITWIT'.

  #8  
Old September 30th 07, 05:48 PM posted to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.astro,fr.sci.physique,fr.sci.astrophysique
Igor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 185
Default EINSTEIN 1905 DERIVATION OF LORENTZ TRANSFORMS

On Sep 30, 12:45 am, Koobee Wublee wrote:
On Sep 29, 2:04 am, Pentcho Valev wrote:





Crucial for the derivation is the equation:


http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/


§ 3. Theory of the Transformation of Co-ordinates and Times from a
Stationary System to another System in Uniform Motion of Translation
Relatively to the Former
(1/2)[tau(0,0,0,t) + tau(0,0,0, t + x'/(c-v) + x'/(c+v))] = tau(x',
0,0, t + x'/(c-v))


The notation is confusing but essentially Einstein uses an expression
for the differential of a function of two variables Z=f(X,Y) which
nowadays is used only in chemical thermodynamics:


dZ = (dZ/dX)dX + (dZ/dY)dY


where (dZ/dX) and (dZ/dY) are partial derivarives.


It is not even that. Einstein, or whoever the actual author was, was
totally hand-waving. 15 years later, Einstein would re-derive the
Lorentz transform from two equations equating zero with zero. The dim-
witted Einstein Dingleberries would be so awe-struck by that
mathemaGic trick. However, some true scholars would call that
bullsh*t and rightfully toss Einstein into the trashcan labeled
'NITWIT'


At least the so-called Einstein Dingleberries knew how to perform
simple algebraic tasks, such as tranforming domains, before indulging
in the calculus.




 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Father of science Newton has perceived it (light energy mass-inter conversion) two centuries before Einstein, but without mathematical derivation. fleesow Amateur Astronomy 2 July 27th 07 11:53 PM
Sheer lies, cheating by Dr Alexander Inpain , who introduced as Scientist and Administrator at CERN ( European Organization for Nuclear Research ) in various post . But it proved all fraud. He was disusing about my work Einstein Sep 1905 paper and AJAY SHARMA Misc 6 October 4th 06 07:15 AM
Derivation of Einstein E=mc2 and ethics of members: Ajay Sharma [email protected] Amateur Astronomy 3 September 11th 06 04:30 PM
Derivation of Einstein E=mc2 and ethics of members: Ajay Sharma physicsajay Astronomy Misc 1 September 11th 06 03:35 PM
Lorentz transforms physical incoherence [email protected] Astronomy Misc 223 June 24th 05 12:48 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.