JimO: "Chinese space advances benefit everyone"

"Henry Spencer" wrote in message
...

They already have a Proton-class launcher, the Long March 3B. Whether
they feel like donating launches to ISS, or would rather build their own
station, is a different question.

The fact there hasn't been a Long March 3B launch since 1998 tells me they
are some time from trying to man-rate the Long March 3B(A) rocket, which
would be necessary for at least a circumlunar mission (one trip around the
Moon and back).

Any serious attempt at a Moon mission using Shenzhou will probably require
the Long March Next Generation Launch Vehicle (NGLV) that will probably
start testing just before 2010.

--
Raymond Chuang
Sacramento, CA USA

I'm afraid the US Guv won't allow the Chinese anywhere near ISS. Darn it.
China didn't sign up to participate. The US fears China's power and doesn't
want her to see how we do our tinkertoy in space.
However, Chinese space advances WILL benefit everyone because those advances
will scare the US Guv into spending more on manned exploration so that we can
keep ahead of China.
I think that that means that we'll get a manned base on Luna much much
earlier than we would've gotten without the Chinese competition.
^
//^\\
~~~ near space elevator ~~~~
~~~members.aol.com/beanstalkr/~~~

In article ,
lid (John Savard) wrote:

If China were weak and helpless, Tibet would have been liberated long
ago. Therefore, for China not to be weak and helpless is bad, because
China's not being weak and helpless is contributing to innocent people
getting hurt.

Where is the flaw in that logic?

How about the Basques? Spain being should hurts them.

US being strong hurts (or terminates) the Native Americans.

....

--
Tao Tong

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:40:17 GMT, lid
(John Savard) wrote:

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:16:58 GMT, (Christopher)
wrote, in part:

Isn't it comforting to know that American paranoia is still alive and
well.

You're not paranoid if you really have enemies.

That some people who don't share America's democratic values are its
enemies is borne out by September 11, 2001.

That China doesn't share America's democratic values is borne out by
the fate of Tibet. (That is, the democratic values of the America of
today and at least as far back as Woodrow Wilson, before anyone makes
wisecracks about the fate of Native Americans...)

If China were weak and helpless, Tibet would have been liberated long
ago. Therefore, for China not to be weak and helpless is bad, because
China's not being weak and helpless is contributing to innocent people
getting hurt.

Where is the flaw in that logic?

You'll be looking for reds under the bed next. One away day in space
and China is now public enemy one in the American administration mind
set, it seems were back to the same mind set as it was on 1 October
1958.




Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:24:43 GMT, lid
(John Savard) wrote:

On 16 Oct 2003 13:33:37 GMT, lid
wrote, in part:

You make the observation that there is a small group of anti-american
hot-heads (the Taliban), and conclude that all China falls into the same
category. That´s the flaw. Hope this helps.

I'm concerned about the Chinese leadership.

Under democratic rule, the Chinese people would be America's friends.

France is a demoracy, yet is France one of 'America's friends'?

Look at all the friendly Chinese people in the Republic of China!
(Which, I suppose, will have to put a man into orbit too, now.)

John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html

Christopher
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Kites rise highest against
the wind - not with it."
Winston Churchill

China is not a democracy.

I'll be dearing now: USA is not a democraty.

It doesn't have a free press or free elections.
Press not supportive of the govermental actions of USA doesn't get a
pass to the stock exchange. If that is not sanction, what is?

Democraty means "people rule". They dont. The number of people woting
in USA is to low to be considered a democraty. The system is flawed as
it is clearly failing.

The Chinese people don't have the right of free assembly or the free
exercise of religion.

You are allowed to be muslim in USA, but you risk losing your job, or
beeing jailed without forml reason. Or if you are from another part of
the world like Afganistan, you are not given the most fundamental
rights as considered by the rest of the world.

Bewa The democraty has lasted only about 200 years, there are
empires that has lasted a thousand. Don't waste the chance this quick.

China is not a democracy.

I'll be dearing now: USA is not a democraty.

It doesn't have a free press or free elections.
Press not supportive of the govermental actions of USA doesn't get a
pass to the stock exchange. If that is not sanction, what is?

Democraty means "people rule". They dont. The number of people woting
in USA is to low to be considered a democraty. The system is flawed as
it is clearly failing.

The Chinese people don't have the right of free assembly or the free
exercise of religion.

You are allowed to be muslim in USA, but you risk losing your job, or
beeing jailed without forml reason. Or if you are from another part of
the world like Afganistan, you are not given the most fundamental
rights as considered by the rest of the world.

Bewa The democraty has lasted only about 200 years, there are
empires that has lasted a thousand. Don't waste the chance this quick.

"B. Isaksen" wrote in message
om...
China is not a democracy.

I'll be dearing now: USA is not a democraty.

Dearing?

I assume you mean daring?

In any case, any American familiar with our form of government would be apt
to agree. We're a Republic. We've never espoused to be a "true" democracy
(except perhaps at the town level.)


It doesn't have a free press or free elections.
Press not supportive of the govermental actions of USA doesn't get a
pass to the stock exchange. If that is not sanction, what is?

Huh? What are you talking about?

The government doesn't control the "stock exchange" (besides, which one are
you referring to, we have a number of them you know.)

And you can find a newspaper that will cover any subject you want from any
point of view you want.

Democraty means "people rule". They dont. The number of people woting
in USA is to low to be considered a democraty. The system is flawed as
it is clearly failing.


Proof?

Or perhaps the system is wildly successful and people feel little need to
express their views. Those who disagree are capable of expressing their
views. In fact, one of our states just recalled their governor. So
obviously people can express their views.

The Chinese people don't have the right of free assembly or the free
exercise of religion.

You are allowed to be muslim in USA, but you risk losing your job, or
beeing jailed without forml reason. Or if you are from another part of
the world like Afganistan, you are not given the most fundamental
rights as considered by the rest of the world.

The recent actions by the US government bear close scruitny. And guess
what, they are getting them. The courts aren't exactly happy with
everything the White House is doing and has made it clear. Many people
aren't happy and they've made it clear. Despite what some may call abuses
of our government (and I tend to think we've gone to far in some areas) you
don't find people "disappearing". Protests are held, even televised.



Bewa The democraty has lasted only about 200 years, there are
empires that has lasted a thousand. Don't waste the chance this quick.

Well, sorry we didn't get around to our grand experiment sooner. But I'll
hazard a guess we'll be around for awhile longer. In fact if you look at
most despotic states formed in the last 100 years, very few are left. Tends
to argue that they are on the way out.

On 18 Oct 2003 07:23:08 -0700, in a place far, far away,
(B. Isaksen) made the phosphor on my monitor glow
in such a way as to indicate that:


Like Bush said: "Eigther you are with us, or against us".

Bush didn't say that.

rest of unknowledgable nonsense snipped

--
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interglobal space lines * 307 733-1715 (Fax) http://www.interglobal.org

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John Savard wrote:

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:10:48 GMT, (Christopher)
wrote, in part:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:24:43 GMT, lid
(John Savard) wrote:

Under democratic rule, the Chinese people would be America's friends.

France is a demoracy, yet is France one of 'America's friends'?

They gave America the Statue of Liberty!


And America gave the French liberation from the Nazis. Which is more
important?


France is merely confused. Red China, on the other hand, is EEEVIL!
Barring a pre-emptive nuclear strike, though, we will sadly have to
live with it, and hope the passing of time mellows it. Since the
United States outgrew Negro slavery, I suppose there is a case to be
made for patience and optimism.

Errrmmm... the US didn't "outgrow" slavery. We fought a very big war
over it.


But if Nazi Germany had been squashed flat the day after the
_Kristallnacht_, the world would have been spared the unpleasantness
of World War II.

Yes, but... we might have gotten to experience the magic of Soviet
domination. Had the Nazis been driven out of power early, the Communists
in Germany would have been in a stronger position to take over. And of
course the Soviet Union wouldn't have been stomped flat by the Luftwaffe
and Wermacht.

--
Scott Lowther, Engineer
Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam
gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address