The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]

[Repost with typo fixed. Original at
. com]


From Ian St. John:
Stuf4 wrote:
snip
... while at the same time celebrating July 4th, 1776, as the birth
date of the United States of America.

The fourth of July is "Independence Day", not "Union Day". The holiday is to
celebrate independence, not union.

snip
Not knowing the name of the July 4th
holiday is just another example of why you should return to civics classes.

By the way, there are many facts from history that civics classes
teach in error.

For example, there are *extremely few people* who know precisely what
July 4th celebrates. While I had stated previously that the
Declaration of Independence serves as the "birth certificate" of the
United States, the actual moment of birth occurred well before this
certificate was signed:

It was July _2nd_ that Congress declared independence from Great
Britain.

Far less famous than the celebrated document drafted by Thomas
Jefferson was the formal "resolution for independency" that was passed
by Congress on July 2nd. Here is that resolution that served to
establish the birth of the nation:

(Introduced by Richard Henry Lee of Virginia and seconded by John
Adams.)
************************************************** ********************
The Com. of the whole Congress to whom was reported the resolution and
=x=x the _Declaration_ supporting independence. 17

united
Resolved That these ^ colonies are and of right
ought to be free and independent states;
that they are absolved from all allegiance
to the british crown and that all political
connection between them and the state of
great Britain is and ought to be totally
dissolved


Report July 2.1776
no 5} The resolution for [signatures]
independency
agreed to July 2. 1776 ||||||||||||
_________




90
81
96
96
-----
383


64
************************************************** ********************
More at- http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall.../declarat.html
Photocopy- http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall...ls/decreso.jpg

Notes: =x=x indicates a word that was crossed out.
"Com." is the abbreviation for Committee.


Here's what John Adams wrote on July 3rd, 1776:

"The Second Day of July 1776 will be the most memorable Epocha, in the
History of America. ... It ought to be solemnized with Pomp and
Parade, with Shews, Games, Sports, Guns, Bells, Bonfires, and
Illuminations from one End of this Continent to the other from this
Time forward forever more."


Another gauge on how effective civics classes are on teaching accurate
history is Delaware's silly claim as being "The First State". Yes,
Delaware was first to sign up to the second republic of the United
States (current government), but the colonies clearly asserted their
status as united states with their declaration for independence. The
story of Caesar Rodney barely making it to this July 2nd vote as
commemorated on the Delaware quarter clearly tells how Delaware was
"tail end Charlie", hardly the first state of the union.

Check how confused the state's own website of "Delaware Facts" is:

http://www.state.de.us/gic/facts/history/delfact.htm

"Statehood:
December 7, 1787"

....followed by:

"Delaware became a state in 1776, just two months after the signing of
the Declaration of Independence."

Ratification of the Constitution did nothing to change Delaware's
status of being a state of the United States. So why, one might ask,
didn't Delaware become a state the instant it declared it's
independence from England? It is an obscure fact that it's status as
an "original colony" was in fact just a few counties that were *still
a part of Pennsylvania*.

Delaware did not instantly become a state because both before and
after Caesar Rodney's historic vote for independence on July 2nd,
Delaware was ruled by Pennsylvania, from Pennsylvania. So there were
several weeks where those three counties were independent from Great
Britain, but *not* independent from its seat of government in
Philadelphia.


On top of this story of Delaware being last, there's the story of
Rhode Island being first, with it's government declaring independence
from Great Britain on May 4th (two months *before* July 2nd).

And then there's the story of how New York delegates held off from
voting for independence on that historic date of July 2nd. The vote
in New York was held on July 9th:

"...it was here on July 9th, 1776, that General George Washington
stood with the Continental Army and listened to the Declaration of
Independence read aloud, just a few hours after it was ratified by New
York State's provisional Congress."
(http://www.nyc.gov/html/rwg/html/99b/challpark.html)


Recap:

- One state was born on May 4th, 1776 (RI),
- 10 more states were born on July 2nd, 1776
with these 11 states constituting a new country,
- New York voted to join on July 9th (making 12),
- ...and then the three lower counties of Pennsylvania
followed that up several weeks later by breaking
ties to the State of Pennsylvania, becoming
the State of Delaware (making a total of 13).


The Fourth of July does not mark a date that commemorates *any* of
these events.

So much for "the Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States
of America" being fixed to the date of July 4th.


~ CT

(Stuf4) wrote in message . com...
[Repost with typo fixed. Original at
. com]


From Ian St. John:
Stuf4 wrote:
snip
... while at the same time celebrating July 4th, 1776, as the birth
date of the United States of America.

The fourth of July is "Independence Day", not "Union Day". The holiday is to
celebrate independence, not union.

snip
Not knowing the name of the July 4th
holiday is just another example of why you should return to civics classes.

By the way, there are many facts from history that civics classes
teach in error.

For example, there are *extremely few people* who know precisely what
July 4th celebrates. While I had stated previously that the
Declaration of Independence serves as the "birth certificate" of the
United States, the actual moment of birth occurred well before this
certificate was signed:

It was July _2nd_ that Congress declared independence from Great
Britain.

But the official release of the Declaration of Independence was
delayed 2 days to allow the printer to actually make a few copies, so
the date officially became July 4.

/dps

(Stuf4) wrote in message
. com...
By the way, there are many facts from history that civics classes
teach in error.

Based on the accuracy of your posts here and your absolute refusal to learn
from your errors, you must teach a civics class.

From Dave Schneider:
(Stuf4) wrote
snip
For example, there are *extremely few people* who know precisely what
July 4th celebrates. While I had stated previously that the
Declaration of Independence serves as the "birth certificate" of the
United States, the actual moment of birth occurred well before this
certificate was signed:

It was July _2nd_ that Congress declared independence from Great
Britain.

But the official release of the Declaration of Independence was
delayed 2 days to allow the printer to actually make a few copies, so
the date officially became July 4.

I don't know where you got that info from.

The document you are talking about did not get completed until July
4th[*] after long debate over the points it raised. And the record
from Congress shows that it was authorized for immediate release.

Let's be clear that we are talking about two separate pieces of
legislation, both known as declarations of independence:

- The Declaration of Independence introduced by Richard Henry Lee
that was passed on July 2nd, and

- The separate document approved on July 4th known as the
Declaration of Independence (of Thomas Jefferson fame).


The Congressional approval of the July 4th document did absolutely
nothing to change the legal status of the United States of America as
an independent country.


It served as an explanation for the action taken on July 2nd (an event
which has since faded into obscurity).

[*]- Even the completed Declaration of July 4th had its words
subsequently altered. The original text is shown here in the Dunlap
Broadside:

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration...ent/dunlap.htm

"IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776.
A DECLARATION
BY THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
IN GENERAL CONGRESS ASSEMBLED.


Subsequently changed to:

"IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776.
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America"


As noted previously, New York did not vote on either July 2nd or the
4th, so there was no unanimity until days after. Here is what led to
the change:

Resolved, That the Declaration passed on the 4th, be fairly
engrossed on parchment, with the title and stile of

"The unanimous declaration of the thirteen United States
of America," and that the same, when engrossed, be signed
by every member of Congress.

Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789
FRIDAY, JULY 19, 1776
http://tinyurl.com/yscbf
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(jc00538)):


~ CT

From Scott Hedrick:
(Stuf4) wrote
By the way, there are many facts from history that civics classes
teach in error.

Based on the accuracy of your posts here and your absolute refusal to learn
from your errors, you must teach a civics class.

Those with rigid modes of thinking will tend to view nonconformal
information as erroneous, regardless of its accuracy.


~ CT

(Stuf4)

Those with rigid modes of thinking will tend to view nonconformal
information as erroneous, regardless of its accuracy.

However, given that the simplest explanation is almost always the correct one,
you're probably just erroneous.

DF

(dave schneider) wrote in message om...
(Stuf4) wrote in message . com...
[Repost with typo fixed. Original at
. com]


From Ian St. John:
Stuf4 wrote:
snip
... while at the same time celebrating July 4th, 1776, as the birth
date of the United States of America.

The fourth of July is "Independence Day", not "Union Day". The holiday is to
celebrate independence, not union.

snip
Not knowing the name of the July 4th
holiday is just another example of why you should return to civics classes.

By the way, there are many facts from history that civics classes
teach in error.

For example, there are *extremely few people* who know precisely what
July 4th celebrates. While I had stated previously that the
Declaration of Independence serves as the "birth certificate" of the
United States, the actual moment of birth occurred well before this
certificate was signed:

It was July _2nd_ that Congress declared independence from Great
Britain.

But the official release of the Declaration of Independence was
delayed 2 days to allow the printer to actually make a few copies, so
the date officially became July 4.

/dps

A timeline for the Lee Resolution and the Declaration of Independence
follows, to clear up some misconceptions.

On June 7, 1776, Richard Henry Lee introduced a resolution proposing
independence. It was not immediately approved because some thought it
was premature or members of the 2nd Continental Congress wanted to get
their respective colony's opinion. The resolution contained 3
sections...the first one dealing with independence.


On June 10, 1776, a special committee was appointed to draft a
declaration:
---------
The Congress took into consideration the report from the Committee of
the whole: Whereupon,

Resolved, That the consideration of the first resolution be postponed
to this day, three weeks [July 1], and in the mean while, that no time
be lost, in case the Congress agree thereto, that a committee be
appointed to prepare a
declaration to the effect of the said first resolution, which is in
these words: "That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to
be, free and independent states; that they are absolved from all
allegiance to the British Crown: and that all political connexion
between them and the state of Great Britain is, and ought to be,
totally dissolved."
--------------

On June 11, 1776, the members were specified for this special
committee and additional committees were appointed for the two
remaining sections of the Lee Resolution:
---------------
Resolved, That the committee, to prepare the declaration, consist of
five members:

The members chosen, Mr. [Thomas] Jefferson, Mr. J[ohn] Adams, Mr.
[Benjamin] Franklin, Mr. [Roger] Sherman, and Mr. R[obert] R.
Livingston.

Resolved, That a committee be appointed to prepare and digest the form
of a confederation to be entered into between these colonies:

Resolved, That a committee be appointed to prepare a plan of treaties
to be proposed to foreign powers.
--------------

Jefferson drafted the statement of independence for the colonies
between June 11 and 28. Adams and Franklin made some changes. The
draft of the Declaration of Independence was presented to Congress on
July 2nd. Also, on July 2nd, Congress formally adopted the first
section of Lee's resolution. The actual Declaration went through the
congressional revision process on July 3rd and 4th. The Declaration
was adopted on July 4th.

This approved Declaration was printed on July 5th and a copy attached
to the rough journal of the Continental Congress for July 4th.

On July 19th, the Declaration was ordered to be engrossed on parchment
with a new title.

On August 2nd, Hancock signed the engrossed copy. 56 delegates
eventually signed. Some delegates never signed.

Resolved, That the committee, to prepare the declaration, consist of
five members:

The members chosen, Mr. [Thomas] Jefferson, Mr. J[ohn] Adams, Mr.
[Benjamin] Franklin, Mr. [Roger] Sherman, and Mr. R[obert] R.
Livingston.

....

Jefferson drafted the statement of independence for the colonies
between June 11 and 28. Adams and Franklin made some changes. The
draft of the Declaration of Independence was presented to Congress on
July 2nd. Also, on July 2nd, Congress formally adopted the first
section of Lee's resolution. The actual Declaration went through the
congressional revision process on July 3rd and 4th. The Declaration
was adopted on July 4th.

This sounds like so many committees I've been on. One person does the bulk
of the work, two of them make changes (often contridictory), and the rest
just show up for the donuts (if at all). At least there wasn't someone there
saying "this stinks, you're doing it all wrong" while failing to contribute
their own ideas. (Did Sherman or Livingston actually work on the document?)

"Ami Silberman" wrote in message
...
At least there wasn't someone there
saying "this stinks, you're doing it all wrong" while failing to
contribute
their own ideas.

They didn't have Usenet

In article ,
Ami Silberman wrote:
This sounds like so many committees I've been on. One person does the bulk
of the work, two of them make changes (often contridictory), and the rest
just show up for the donuts (if at all)...

In practice, that's the only way to get results. Committees have some
uses for reviewing documents, but collective authorship doesn't work
unless the document is big enough and structured enough that well-defined
pieces of it can be farmed out to individuals. To actually write
something coherent, you need to send one or two people off into a corner
to do it. (Maybe three at the outside, but even that is less workable,
and when it does work, you usually find out that two of them did the work
and the third just reviewed and commented.)
--
"Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer
-- George Herbert |