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How cool is VL2



 
 
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  #31  
Old March 18th 07, 07:39 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.astro
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Default How cool is VL2

On Mar 17, 1:52 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

Moving billions of metric tonnes to Venus's L2 point would be
quite a chore.


I had no idea that those Bigelow POOFs were in that class. I'm
impressed.

What's giving you the impression of having to relocate such an amount
of mass?

A good VL2 outpost or space depot/gateway as situated at Venus L2
might demand at most 100 tonnes to start off with, although a mere
POOF seed of 25 tonnes would likely be more than sufficient.


6.5 billion people * 100 kg/person = 650 million metric tonnes.
Granted, many are women and children (the women tend to be
a little smaller; the children are variable size), so this might
be an overestimate. However, support equipment would be
needed as well -- the air we breathe, recyclers to process the
CO2 back into O2 (with the C going somewhere as well), some
water and recyclers for *that*, sewage processors, and of course
various other things to keep us from going [censored] insane as
we sit behind Venus.


I'm terribly sorry, but what the freaking hell are you talking about?

You couldn't possibly be any further off-base if you tried extra hard.

Are you even posting this silly naysayism into the correct topic?
-
Brad Guth

  #32  
Old March 18th 07, 07:49 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.astro
The Ghost In The Machine
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Default How cool is VL2

In sci.physics,

wrote
on 17 Mar 2007 23:39:49 -0700
. com:
On Mar 17, 1:52 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

Moving billions of metric tonnes to Venus's L2 point would be
quite a chore.


I had no idea that those Bigelow POOFs were in that class. I'm
impressed.


I have no idea what POOF is in this context; neither does Acronymfinder.


What's giving you the impression of having to relocate such an amount
of mass?


6.5 billion people, of course. Did you not want to save humanity? :-)


A good VL2 outpost or space depot/gateway as situated at Venus L2
might demand at most 100 tonnes to start off with, although a mere
POOF seed of 25 tonnes would likely be more than sufficient.


6.5 billion people * 100 kg/person = 650 million metric tonnes.
Granted, many are women and children (the women tend to be
a little smaller; the children are variable size), so this might
be an overestimate. However, support equipment would be
needed as well -- the air we breathe, recyclers to process the
CO2 back into O2 (with the C going somewhere as well), some
water and recyclers for *that*, sewage processors, and of course
various other things to keep us from going [censored] insane as
we sit behind Venus.


I'm terribly sorry, but what the freaking hell are you talking about?

You couldn't possibly be any further off-base if you tried extra hard.

Are you even posting this silly naysayism into the correct topic?


What exactly is your objective here?

-
Brad Guth


--
#191,

"Woman? What woman?"

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from
http://www.teranews.com

  #33  
Old March 20th 07, 07:12 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.astro
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Default How cool is VL2

On Mar 18, 10:49 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

I have no idea what POOF is in this context; neither does Acronymfinder.


A most basic search for 'Bigelow' or 'POOF' should have done the trick
as of years ago. Which planet other than Earth did you say you were
from?

What's giving you the impression of having to relocate such
an amount of mass?


6.5 billion people, of course. Did you not want to save humanity? :-)


Humanity has summarily screwed itself in more horrific ways than
either of us can count, plus we now have such a warm and fuzzy
resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush) as our born-again pagan God to thank
for bringing us that much closer to WWIII. So, there may not be all
that many souls remaining to salvage. However, VL2 is just
representing the go-between, as a viable science platform or space
depot/gateway (potty rest-stop along the way to Venus, sort of speak).

What exactly is your objective here?


Venus L2(VL2) is simply cool enough for hosting a nifty community of
those Bigelow POOFs, or whatever else you'd care to efficiently park
within that cool zone, and that's way better off than anything ISS/ESS
or of most anything other than the LSE-CM/ISS has to offer.

The objective of VL2 is clearly scientific, and it's also offering by
far the most cost effective and viable interplanetary worthy
alternative in town. Venus is the one and only known planet that has
more of whatever it takes for sustaining intelligent other life,
including on behalf of those few of us that are not totally snookered
and thus dumbfounded past the point of no return.
-

This following tidbit is what I've been sharing with a few others that
are hell bent upon Mars, so it's not as such intended as for putting
the likes of yourself down.

Unless Earth or Mars are derived from somewhere other (the same being
said of our moon and Venus), there's simply insufficient Mars salt to
behold, and yet the ongoing investments into further exploring Mars
isn't in any way worthy of the past or ongoing efforts, at least not
for other than robust and clearly rad-hard robotics that couldn't all
that likely survive upon our somewhat salty and otherwise naked moon
that's causing so much GW trauma to our badly failing environment.

Usenet astronomy, physics and all sorts of related science remains
deathly afraid of their own MIB enforced status quo. It's clearly all
about the money, and of their otherwise having to somehow stick
everything within their Old Testament cultism, or else. ESA's Venus
EXPRESS mission is clearly having to operate in taboo/nondisclosure
mode, all because of their findings that simply do not support the
100% greenhouse or bust policy, and otherwise most likely causing a
greater degree of boat rocking from whatever their PFS instrument
readings are having to say, as only adding further insult to the
ongoing injury as caused by way of all those status quo lies we've
been told about Venus.

As I've had to stipulate upon the obvious from the very get-go;
Mars is only a 100% butt kicking go if whatever ongoing cost isn't a
factor, if decades of R&D plus mission time isn't a factor, if your
having to bring damn near everything imaginable along for the spendy
and potentially lethal to/from ride isn't a factor, if your not having
rad-hard DNA isn't a factor any more so than your not having half a
village idiot's brain isn't a factor. Otherwise, much like our
physically dark and reactive nasty moon, Mars is best suited for those
robust little rad-hard robots, that can if need be take on loads of
cosmic energy plus whatever direct meteorite hits and somewhat keep
right on ticking after thawing out each subfrozen to death night,
whereas we humans of frail DNA would need to pack along a rather
substantial cache of our banked bone marrow, and lots of ductape.

Otherwise, for a fat-waverider of an airship cruising above the bulk
of those acidic Venusian clouds, whereas it's still unavoidably made
solar warm by day, but otherwise becomes seriously a wee bit extra
cold by night, offering a rather good thermal difference to behold of
190°C, is why Venus gets so technically doable.

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Venus_Ex...NY808BE_0.html
Higher in the atmosphere, above 110 kilometres, the mysteries
continue. In the higher atmosphere of a planet as close to the Sun as
Venus, why do we measure temperatures as low as 30 °C on the day side,
and even -160 °C on the night side?

"At around 60 kilometres altitude is a very thick cloud layer - a 20
kilometre-deep blanket surrounding the planet."

By which also means there's more than a few teratonnes worth of good
old fresh h2o available to easily extract, not to mention your having
all of the local renewable energy that you could possibly need as for
making that easily extracted h2o into the likes of h2o2 if need be.

Somewhat near the bottom (46+ km) zone of that robust Venus cloud deck
is also a rather nifty layer of S8 solids. Once situated well enough
below the S8 layer (say operating below 35 km by day and perhaps 25 km
by night) is where it gets much calmer and unavoidably warmer as
headed towards that geothermally active deck, a Venusian surface
that's emitting 20 some odd watts/m2 (emitting at least 256 fold
greater thermal energy than Earth's surface). Of course, not each and
every m2 is every bit as hot or as cool as any other, and of surface
elevations do exist where you could have a nighttime surface
environment of something less than 600 K, whereas many other active
zones of lava, mud ponds or of mud flows, or otherwise of those pesky
geothermal forced gas vents are most certainly more than smoking hot
spots to keep your distance from.

There's nothing that's technically all that insurmountable about
Venus, and thank God there's locally such an available cache of mucho/
spare and otherwise 100% renewable energy to burn (sort of speak).
With said available energy at thy disposal (of which obviously need
not be imported), there's almost nothing that can't be accommodated,
including while on the fly of utilizing that composite rigid airship,
or that of processing CO2--CO/O2. Of course, the usual mainstream
box of status quo thinking, of what's mostly faith-based naysayism,
gets you nowhere.

Much like the ESA Venus EXPRESS mission's robust PFS instrument, the
composite rigid airship alternative is 100% doable within existing and
thus known technology. Its size doesn't actually matter, whereas with
applications of micro electronics means that such a composite airship
could be made extremely small (within as little as one cubic meter, or
at most a few meters worth of LOA), or because of the available
buoyancy and 90.5% gravity means that such a nifty composite airship
could otherwise become 10 fold larger than anything accomplished upon
Earth, as well as hauling 70 fold as much payload per m3.

Obviously you and others of your kind don't likely grasp nor otherwise
comprehend the most basic terminology meaning of "composite", or that
of being "rigid", or the matter of fact being that such an airship
would be operating as though efficiently within nearly a 10% density
of water that's actually made better by way of that buoyancy medium
being compeised mostly of clean and dry co2, which by the way is an
extremely easy element to keep outside of this Venusian configured
airship.
-
Brad Guth

  #35  
Old March 21st 07, 08:12 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.astro
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Default How cool is VL2

On Mar 20, 7:43 pm, "Scott Hedrick" wrote:
In sci.physics,

wrote
You couldn't possibly be any further off-base if you tried extra hard.


Then he's learning well from you.



Are you even posting this silly naysayism into the correct topic?


*You* don't- you keep posting to sci.space.history when you're clearly
dealing in fiction and psychological deviancy. If you want to whine about
others being off-topic, then you should stop posting in sci.space.history
and take your posts to a more appropriate forum. Duh.


You're being that silly naysay jewboy again, arnt you. Of course, the
others of you kind know exactly what you're doing, and they approve.
-
Brad Guth

  #36  
Old March 22nd 07, 05:22 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.astro
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Default How cool is VL2

On Mar 18, 10:49 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:

What exactly is your objective here?


Instead of Mars or of stuff further away, we should have been doing
VL2, because it's within the scope and/or spec of what's perfectly
doable. Obviously accomplishing Venus itself would soon enough become
the next logical step.

Placing a POOF of ISS/ESS collective of VL2 habitats isn't all that
tough, and of getting ourselves to/from that relatively cool location
upon each of the 19 month orbits of Venus as being nearly worthy of a
NEO that's merely 100 fold further away than our moon, is simply
another aspect of VL2 that's doable.

According to others that typically via 2nd or 3rd hand knowledge claim
to know pretty much all there is to know, Earth's thin atmosphere is
hosting between 50e12 and 200e12 tonnes of h2o, thereby imagine what
all of that robust atmosphere of Venus must be accommodating within
those thick clouds. The more GW we get ourselves into, the more h2o
is forced to being held within our extensively soot and chemical
polluted atmosphere, that's obviously getting more Venus like acidic
and otherwise global dimming and thereby unavoidably extra energy
holding by the day, especially compounded by way of the ongoing thaw
from the last ice age this planet along with its recent moon that's
causing so much planetology trauma will ever see.

This is an interesting perspective about the Venusian atmosphere
that's forced into being so gosh darn toasty and all, though mostly as
such having been contributed by and otherwise thermally forced from
the active geothermal bottom up, along with solar influx adding
further insult to injury, just as a somewhat newish planetology
environment should be, and clearly representing the exact opposite of
Mars, with Earth literally existing somewhere in between the new and
the old.

S8/Sulfur offers a density of 2 g/cm3 (roughly twice the density of
water), and S8 becomes a melted or vapor element at just above 386 K
(235°F/113°C), which in fact does exist within that Venusian
atmosphere.

According to what John Ackerman and a few others are having to say, in
addition to the relatively friendly environment of CO2 (friendly
because it's so bone dry), the Venusian lower atmospheric zone that's
situated well enough below them wet clouds is otherwise hosting a good
amount of dry S8/Sulfur, that's also representing a relatively
harmless substance as long as its getting provided without hardly any
h2o, though obviously it's of a geothermally contributed sulfur that's
sustained in a toasty vapor form while coexisting below the 45 km
mark, perhaps below as little as 40 km by night. Above 46 km by day
it's getting cool enough for the vapors of sulfur to reformulate back
into crystals of the near solid form of S8/Sulfur, thereby forming a
thin layer or boundary of S8 that's creating a rather nifty thermal
dynamic or transition barrier, as well as for having been providing an
atmospheric tent or membrane of sorts, allowing those horrifically
strong winds to circulate above and considerably less windy conditions
to coexist below.

Of whatever geothermally forced S8 as having brought h2o into the
atmosphere, whereas this is going to release that h2o above the
crystallizing point of where S8 is no longer in vapor form, which of
course represents the vast bulk of those nifty and extremely thick and
obviously acidic clouds, that should be capable of their hosting at
least 100e12 tonnes if not potentially several hundred teratonnes of
h2o. Of whatever icy meteor arrivals as having contributed their h2o,
are most likely going to contribute as to what's above the S8 layer,
mostly because of that icy influx of contributed h2o density being of
1 g/cm3 (half the density of S8).

That's like having a surrounding ocean of S8 that's roughly twice the
density of water, suspended at 46+km above your pounding head, along
with multiple teratonnes of that acidic h2o ocean kept further above,
representing somewhat of a humanly nasty surface consideration because
of your having a serious lack of cranial pressure equalisation at your
wussy biological disposal, as well as such lacking a good CO2--CO/O2
biological process. With time and/or having a few artificial pressure
equalisation passages created, your head and attached body might
eventually get used to the surface pressure environment, that is as
long as you also had a nifty CO2--CO/O2 technology that was providing
1% o2 and otherwise having the likes of 99% H2 or perhaps local He to
work with, whereas otherwise you'd stay within your submarine like
composite rigid airship, eating pizza and drinking ice cold beer.

Just because Venus seems hotter than hell, this in of itself doesn't
exclude intelligent ETs or of evolved locals from having been doing
their thing, just like we could have been doing our thing if we were
only half smart enough. I believe it's technically easier to deal
with an environment that's chuck full of local renewable energy
resources, then having to deal with the money and DNA sink-hole likes
of a mostly frozen Mars that offers so damn little of just about
everything.

Too bad that we have so many folks here in Usenet naysay land, that in
spite of the mounting evidence and of my subjective interpretations as
to what's existing/coexisting on the deck that looks so intelligent/
artificial, are instead so intellectually faith-based and even openly
biologically bigoted, to the point of no return of their being
unworthy of Earth.
-
Brad Guth

  #37  
Old March 23rd 07, 05:53 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.astro
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Default How cool is VL2

Is incest still running itself amok within Art Deco's family tree?
-
Brad Guth

  #38  
Old March 24th 07, 07:39 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.astro
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Default How cool is VL2

On Mar 23, 8:53 am, wrote:
Is incest still running itself amok within Art Deco's family tree?
-


As I said. And lo and behold, these MI/NSA Usenet clowns still exist
as Old Testament thumpers.

Too bad that Venus L2 is actually so gosh darn cool, and that Venus
itself isn't nearly as insurmountable as we've been continually lied
to about. Of course, since this topic has nothing to do with having
created such collateral damage and carnage of the innocent (mostly
Muslims), so it's not hardly worth the supportive Jewish effort that
Art Deco and his kind gives to our resident LLPOF warlord(GW Bush).
-
Brad Guth

  #39  
Old March 25th 07, 07:46 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,uk.sci.astronomy,sci.astro
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Default How cool is VL2

What's the matter this time? (has my cat got each and every Jewish
tongue?)

VL2 is cool, and it's certainly Bigelow POOF doable.

Where the heck are all of those smart Third Reich minions when we need
them?
-
Brad Guth

 




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