Sunlight alone doesn't insure life:

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:55:27 -0000, huskerdont
wrote:

Put yer tinfoil hat back on and take your meds Retard.

....Better still, put this willingly-molested-as-a-child, anti-semitic
troll in your killfile and be done with him. The more who do this, the
better off we'll be until nature or his own smegma-crusted hand does
him in for good.

OM
--
]=====================================[
] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [
] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [
]=====================================[

On Jul 13, 6:40 am, BradGuth wrote:
Having a binary partner of a brown dwarf/spent star is actually more
than good enough, although if the planet core is massive enough and
otherwise not too old to begin with (such as Venus) is also doable as
is for interstellar space travels or migrations without having a sun
like star to light your way.

Having a local cache of energy is what counts the most. Having a
nearby mascon of a spent brown dwarf star as your moon is one better,
or even that of a salty and extremely icy moon has obvious life
transport and sustaining benefits to share.
-
Brad Guth

It does little good having just the right amount and spectrum worth of
sunlight if you're stuck with having an old Mars like dead core of a
planet, with damn few or hardly any local energy resources at your
disposal.

If any other planet like orb should have supported life, our moon
should have been right in there with hosting any good number of such
robust forms of life. Therefore again, even the most ideal worth of
sunlight alone isn't necessarily part of the holy grail of creating
life, or even of evolution as we know it.

BTW, the analogy of panspermia doesn't exclude the transfer of full
blown humans or other complex forms of life, especially if their
interstellar trek or migration having been well protected by a thick
layer of salty ice.
-
Brad Guth

"Scientists ponder plant life on extrasolar planets"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...d820b126792d97

I can't but totally agree with the above topic, in that depending upon
the spectrum of available energy as light (much of which is outside
the threshold of human vision), the forms of plant/microbe/animal life
should have adapted, as do our terrestrial diatoms for taking the
fullest advantage of the given energy spectrum that's in charge of
illuminating a given environment, including everything from UV
starshine to that of a brown dwarf's black IR/FIR radiating sun (aka
'hot rock') should do just fine as long as their local, solar, moon
and cosmic dosage of gamma and hard-Xrays are within the scope of
whatever such ET DNA or whatever alternative can manage to cope with.

How about our best of science wizards pondering on behalf of other
intelligent life that's either evolved or having been one way or
another transported onto intrasolar planets or moons, meaning the
likes of Venus or a few of those interesting Saturn or Jupiter moons
seems every bit as worthy as for any little frozen to death Ceres
dwarf of a planet, and otherwise certainly a whole lot better off than
anything Mars could sustain without imported resources.

At most a planet that's hosting intelligent other life needs merely a
brown dwarf of a sun, or at least having a Saturn+ or Jupiter+ class
of a mother planet from which to draw energy from. In the case of
Venus being of such a newish worth of planetology, chances are that it
could have survived an extended interstellar trek pretty much all by
itself, perhaps bringing along its own icy moon and whatever
collection of complex life that's capable of having survived where
most terrestrial forms of life from Earth simply would never have
survived, much less having evolved into the sorts of life as we know
it.

Just because a given planet or moon is not 100% suited to our butt
naked and so often dumbfounded usage as is, doesn't exclude such other
orbs from having their own populations of weird or even somewhat
terrestrial forms of survival intelligent other life to behold, much
like there being complex life within terrestrial ice or having been
surviving within certain places similar to being as hot as hell on
Earth, as well as within testy environments under the depths of an
ocean that would just as easily crush your typical submarine that's
accommodating us wussy humans, along with terminating our extremely
frail DNA that hasn't hardly evolved for the better since the last ice
age this planet is ever going to see, that is as long as we're going
to keep putting up with that massive and fast moving moon of ours
that's cruising so close to our home world that's 98.5% fluid and thus
unavoidably affected by those horrific tidal forces at play.

As I'd said, a visual spectrum of sunlight alone doesn't insure life,
but it certainly makes our lives a whole lot more interesting being
able to see rather than limited by braille or via other than our
highly evolved and/or intelligently designed sensory capability of
sight.
-
Brad Guth

How much of terrestrial complex life has never seen or otherwise
experienced a ray of sunlight?

It seems a brown dwarf or even a near black dwarf sun is more than
good enough for us humans. Therefore, even the geothermal core of an
icy proto-moon makes for a perfectly nifty interstellar craft, don't
you think.
- Brad Guth

Just because much of terrestrial life can not manage entirely without
the direct or indirect benefits of sunlight, there's still much to
being said of other complex life having never seen or in any way
experienced a photon worth of visible sunlight. Even fairly complex
if not intelligent other life need not have but a black dwarf or
possibly that of a UV and Xray providing star of an illuminated solar
system by which to evolve highly complex DNAs into perhaps a more
robust if not even better intelligence than most any human species.

The topics of "What's wrong with there being ETs (smarter than us none
the less)", or how about "What's not technically positive about
relocating our moon to Earth's L1" are each suggesting that we're not
nearly as alone as we think. However, pointing this Carl Sagan kind
of thing out to such a typically naysay swarm mindset hasn't been all
that easy, nor without personal risk and some likely consequences of
my have fired off one too many lose cannons or having pushed one too
many of those DO NOT PUSH buttons.

Before relocating our moon to Earth's L1, it might actually be a nice
enough thing to appreciate where that sucker came from in the first
place, and of how much of our terrestrial life could be associated
with that aspect of such grand panspermia and the subsequent random
happenstance of evolution getting most of everything just right, at
least on behalf of having given humanity which seemed to emerge with
the most gusto and the somewhat better edge on intelligence as of the
very last ice age this 98.5% fluid Earth is ever going to see (that is
as long as we hold ever so tightly onto our moon, instead of letting
it go out to a more terrestrial friendly orbit).

On Jul 25, 4:28 pm, American wrote:
So, if I get the jist, your saying that you need to bring the ice
with you, is that it? O.K., fine... but how long do you expect
the journey, as described, to be made, as long as it's a
profitable venture?

Yourself and many others seem to have been missing the fundamental
jest of this topic context. The moon itself becomes the best ever
interstellar craft or lifeboat that'll safely haul the complex sorts
of DNA from one solar system that going somewhat postal, over to
another that's relatively passive and in need of a little extra
terraforming via icy moon. Get it?

If the interstellar journey represents your one and only salvation,
who the puck cares how long it might take, or if there's any profit
involved outside of saving your butt, though especially nifty when
you've got yourself such a robust transport along with its icy covered
rock surface of such an orb that still has it's own central core of
geothermal energy, all of which is nicely enough ice coated to begin
with, thus thermally insulated against the cosmic realm of deep space,
and about as naturally rad-hard of an under-ice protected surface
habitat environment as you're ever going to get, along with more ice
loading as trekking through your local Oort cloud while leaving town,
plus from otherwise cruising through the icy realm of interstellar
space and getting past our icy Oort cloud gauntlet.


You wouldn't expect to make an excursion like this to far inside
the orbit of Mars, or the crystalized dirty ice vessel'd start
breaking up from the increase in rads - good to stay beyond Mars,
at least so long as you have lucrative venture, right?

I believe that's correct, as not all that much of anything the limited
size and mass of our moon that's merely ice covered should last for
all that long as is, once cruising inside of Mars. However, if having
been arriving into our inner solar system along with 262 km worth of
salty ice on deck, as such that ice (especially if it's salty) should
take a little time to go away, meaning that there should be 200 km or
perhaps at the very least 100 km worth of solid ice coverage at the
time of that sucker lithobraking itself into orbiting mother Earth.

At that minimal 100 km thickness, any ice surrounded habitats near the
rocky surface should have stood a good enough chance of surviving the
encounter, say as many as 10% of those complex lifeforms onboard our
interstellar icy proto-moon will have ended up as safely enough
surviving upon this planet after having impacted via a glancing blow,
that which also gives Earth a significant portion of its seasonal
tilt.

Remember, that it could have been a second or third pass that made the
final lithobraking encounter some odd 12,000 BP, whereas the one or
two impressive NEO encounters before may have been the sorts of
passing happenstance that merely ripped a few icebergs the cubic size
and volume of Alaska or Texas away from that incoming proto-moon.

All passengers (intelligent or otherwise) onboard that icy proto-moon
that's getting forced away from their mother binary solar system,
that's going through one of its unfortunate red giant phase tantrums,
should actually tank there lucky stars that our relatively passive
solar system along with its wussy Oort cloud was so nearby, as
otherwise you could be next to forever * LOST IN SPACE *.

I should add this closing argument:
Now that we have got our naked moon and it's obviously not going away
any too fast enough, we should contemplate relocating that item to
Earth's L1 for safe keeping, and for otherwise getting that badly
needed little spot of solar isolation (3~3.5%) in addition to having
moderated our inside and out worth of global warming via tidal issues
as trimmed by roughly 50%.

BTW, even if nothing larger than a few off-world diatoms survived that
icy proto-moon impacting Earth, the mere force of that glancing impact
plus whatever secondary gauntlet of falling moon icebergs and of rocky
crater debris that's unavoidably attracted by Earth's gravity would
have deposited vast numbers of such complex elements and fluids
containg most of everything that was once upon a time living and
likely mutating along its marry way of having existed off-world, as
for its having emerged, evolved and survived instead within some other
nearby solar system that may have actually represented an older and
far better DNA growth and complex expansion environment than anything
our relatively passive sun and fluid Earth could possibly muster on
its own.

Even as of today we're encountering roughly 40,000 tonnes worth of
solar system and cosmic debris per year that's being collected by
Earth, and perhaps as much as 99.9% of which should have been ending
up in our lakes, rivers and oceans. Being that such local and cosmic
influx was only much greater as for going way back in time, and that
some of that physical influx is capable of representing and/or
assisting in creating new and possibly even improved life. So,
without question we were never hardly alone to begin with, and we're
certainly are not being left alone by any long shot, especially as
Earth keeps passing through the hot breath of Venus each and every 19
months and that of our salty moon's comet like breath of sodium each
and every lunar month.
- Brad Guth

Terrestrial life and of our local but rather passive sunlight that's
apparently offering exactly the same harmless illumination spectrum as
a xenon arc lamp because, that's the only sort of raw unfiltered
illumination obtained on our moon, isn't entirely necessary if there's
incoming spores, and especially of those having been ice protected
spores that would have easily survived their migration, reentry and
final lithobraking impact with the surface of this planet. Placing
enough ice around most anything and it'll safely travel between stars,
as its internal cache of spores or even complex forms of life should
manage to survive quite nicely, especially if that interstellar icy
habitat had a 7.35e22 kg rocky core along with some geothermal
reserves.

At 40,000 tonnes of incoming debris per year, and of certainly more so
arriving as of previous years, whereas perhaps the odds of some nappy
haired virgin Marry getting impregnated by a holy micrometeorite of
some weird off-world spores isn't nearly as far fetch as we think.
(puts an ntirely new meaning on panspermia that could have happened,
and explains why so many of our early or even pre teenage girls that
spend far too much time outside have been getting pregnant, don't you
think!)
- Brad Guth

This is perhaps why faith-based naysayism rules Usenet as though their
very life and most of everything it ever stood for is at risk, as the
mere dreaded thought of anything off-world being the least bit
involved with humanity or even of diatoms is simply not within the
holy grail of what was supposed to have happened. According to the
Old Testament, we're it, as being the one any only Godly fornicated
life in the entire universe. No wonder there's so much faith-based
flak and the ongoing threat of our getting terminated by way of their
WMD.

Terrestrial life and of our local but rather passive sunlight that's
apparently offering exactly the same harmless illumination spectrum as
a xenon arc lamp because, that's the only sort of raw unfiltered
illumination obtained on our moon, isn't entirely necessary if there's
incoming spores, and especially of those having been ice protected
spores that would have easily survived their migration, reentry and
final lithobraking impact with the surface of this planet. Placing
enough ice around most anything and it'll safely travel between stars,
as its internal cache of spores or even complex forms of life should
manage to survive quite nicely, especially if that interstellar icy
habitat had a 7.35e22 kg rocky core along with some geothermal
reserves.

At 40,000 tonnes of incoming debris per year, and of certainly more so
(+.01%/year) arriving as of previous years, whereas perhaps the odds
of some nappy haired virgin Marry getting impregnated by a holy
micrometeorite of some weird off-world spores isn't nearly as far
fetch as we think. (places an entirely new meaning on panspermia that
could have happened, and explains why so many of our early or even pre
teenage girls that spend far too much time outside have been getting
pregnant, don't you think!)
- Brad Guth

In addition to all that's terrestrial, incoming debris brings us the
interstellar staff of life, and/or the raw cosmic building blocks of
off-world life into our extremely fluid realm, as likely transpires
each time we pass through the moon's sodium trail and otherwise get
the 19 month cycle of our passing through the hot breath wash of
Venus. Actual living DNA of complex other life needs a bit more than
a naked fling through space, whereas a thick coating of ice and a
rocky core is what's needed.

The good ship LOLLIPOP of Faith Based Naysayism: unfortunately it
goes along as a swarm like mindset without question and without
remorse against all that might revise their past, present or even
their holy grail future.

This is perhaps why such pretend atheist faith-based naysayism rules
over Usenet and puppeteers government, as though their very life and
most of everything it ever stood for is at risk, as the mere dreaded
thought of anything off-world being the least bit involved with
humanity or even of diatoms is simply not within their holy grail of
what was supposed to have happened. According to the Old Testament,
we're it, as for being the one and only Godly fornicated life in the
entire universe. No wonder there's so much faith-based flak and the
ongoing threat of our getting terminated by way of their WMD.

Terrestrial life and of our local but rather passive sunlight that's
apparently offering exactly the same harmless illumination spectrum as
a xenon arc lamp because, that's the only sort of raw unfiltered
illumination obtained via Kodak film while on our moon, isn't even
entirely necessary if there's such an incoming gauntlet of cosmic
spores, and especially of those having been ice protected spores that
would have easily survived their interstellar migration, reentry and
final lithobraking impact with the surface of this planet. Placing
enough ice around most anything and it'll safely travel between stars,
as its internal cache of spores or even complex forms of life should
manage to survive quite nicely, especially if that interstellar icy
habitat had a 7.35e22 kg rocky core along with some geothermal
reserves.

At 40,000 tonnes worth of incoming debris per year, and of certainly
more so (+.01%/year) arriving as of previous years, whereas perhaps
the odds of some nappy haired virgin Marry getting impregnated by a
holy micrometeorite of some weird off-world spores isn't nearly as far
fetch as we think. This places an entirely new meaning on panspermia
that could have happened, and explains why so many of our early or
even pre teenage girls that spend far too much time outside have been
getting pregnant (don't you think!).
- Brad Guth