faith and belief

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the Drake Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

: To me the most astounding hypothesis is: There is just one
: intelligent civilization in this Galaxy or in the Universe.
: All I can say to that is that it is false! It is just beyond me to
: believe that we are the only intelligent beings in this Galaxy or the
: Universe. It goes against everything in nature that I know. There is
: never just one! There is always statistics and distributions of things.

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith and belief. And you
*still* want to suck my tax dollars for a religiously-oriented project
such as this?

Steve Crisp

Rich wrote:

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the
Drake Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

: To me the most astounding hypothesis is: There is just one
: intelligent civilization in this Galaxy or in the Universe.
: All I can say to that is that it is false! It is just
: beyond me to believe that we are the only intelligent
: beings in this Galaxy or the Universe. It goes against
: everything in nature that I know. There is never just one!
: There is always statistics and distributions of things.

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith and
belief. And you *still* want to suck my tax dollars

What tax dollars?

Where did you read that the SETI At Home project gets
tax dollars.

Actually, this proves that you don't have a clue. This
project, SETI at honme, does not get any public money.

for a religiously-oriented project such as this?

Religous??? Who, aside from you, said anythiing about religion?

Steve Crisp

--
Martin G. Diehl

Reality -- That which remains after you stop thinking
about it.

All replies and comments accepted and considered.
Adoption of your suggestions are at my sole discretion.
Award criteria are unpublished and are considered to
be a trade secret. As such, awards for your responses
cannot be guaranteed. Incoming flames may be stored
for use during severe winters or may be circulated for
deep analysis, peer review, and/or literary criticism.

Rich wrote:

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the
Drake Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

: To me the most astounding hypothesis is: There is just one
: intelligent civilization in this Galaxy or in the Universe.
: All I can say to that is that it is false! It is just
: beyond me to believe that we are the only intelligent
: beings in this Galaxy or the Universe. It goes against
: everything in nature that I know. There is never just one!
: There is always statistics and distributions of things.

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith and
belief. And you *still* want to suck my tax dollars

What tax dollars?

Where did you read that the SETI At Home project gets
tax dollars.

Actually, this proves that you don't have a clue. This
project, SETI at honme, does not get any public money.

for a religiously-oriented project such as this?

Religous??? Who, aside from you, said anythiing about religion?

Steve Crisp

--
Martin G. Diehl

Reality -- That which remains after you stop thinking
about it.

All replies and comments accepted and considered.
Adoption of your suggestions are at my sole discretion.
Award criteria are unpublished and are considered to
be a trade secret. As such, awards for your responses
cannot be guaranteed. Incoming flames may be stored
for use during severe winters or may be circulated for
deep analysis, peer review, and/or literary criticism.

In infinite wisdom Martin G. Diehl answered:
Rich wrote:

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the
Drake Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

: To me the most astounding hypothesis is: There is just one
: intelligent civilization in this Galaxy or in the Universe.
: All I can say to that is that it is false! It is just
: beyond me to believe that we are the only intelligent
: beings in this Galaxy or the Universe. It goes against
: everything in nature that I know. There is never just one!
: There is always statistics and distributions of things.

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith and
belief. And you *still* want to suck my tax dollars


What tax dollars?

Where did you read that the SETI At Home project gets
tax dollars.

This is a post from 1994. Read the header. And read my note
before the post.

Actually, this proves that you don't have a clue. This
project, SETI at honme, does not get any public money.

Actually this proves that you can't read.

for a religiously-oriented project such as this?

Religous??? Who, aside from you, said anythiing about religion?

Can you connect "faith and belief" with religion? Perhaps not.

Rich

Steve Crisp

In infinite wisdom Martin G. Diehl answered:
Rich wrote:

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the
Drake Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

: To me the most astounding hypothesis is: There is just one
: intelligent civilization in this Galaxy or in the Universe.
: All I can say to that is that it is false! It is just
: beyond me to believe that we are the only intelligent
: beings in this Galaxy or the Universe. It goes against
: everything in nature that I know. There is never just one!
: There is always statistics and distributions of things.

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith and
belief. And you *still* want to suck my tax dollars


What tax dollars?

Where did you read that the SETI At Home project gets
tax dollars.

This is a post from 1994. Read the header. And read my note
before the post.

Actually, this proves that you don't have a clue. This
project, SETI at honme, does not get any public money.

Actually this proves that you can't read.

for a religiously-oriented project such as this?

Religous??? Who, aside from you, said anythiing about religion?

Can you connect "faith and belief" with religion? Perhaps not.

Rich

Steve Crisp

In infinite wisdom Rich answered:


In infinite wisdom Martin G. Diehl answered:

Rich wrote:

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the Drake Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

: To me the most astounding hypothesis is: There is just one
: intelligent civilization in this Galaxy or in the Universe.
: All I can say to that is that it is false! It is just : beyond me
to believe that we are the only intelligent : beings in this Galaxy
or the Universe. It goes against : everything in nature that I know.
There is never just one! : There is always statistics and
distributions of things.

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith and belief. And
you *still* want to suck my tax dollars

What tax dollars?

Where did you read that the SETI At Home project gets tax dollars.

This is a post from 1994. Read the header. And read my note
before the post.

It occurs to me that 1994 was a while ago and not everyone would be
aware of the controversy at the time. Up till 1994 NASA had indeed been
sponsoring SETI research...

http://www.seti.org/about_us/institute_history.html

[...]

The first research grant awarded to the Institute was funded by
NASA on February 1, 1985 in response to a proposal submitted by
Dr. Jill Tarter. This initial project was to participate in NASA's
research and development effort to define a Targeted Search SETI
effort. By mid-1985 the Institute had received its first Life in
the Universe research funding for work led by Dr. H. P. Klein.

From the mid 1980's through the conclusion of the NASA SETI project
in early 1994, the SETI Institute continued as a primary grantee
playing a major role in the NASA Targeted Search SETI effort. All
SETI research conducted by the Institute since 1994 has been funded
by private, philanthropic support for Project Phoenix and advance
design work on the Allen Telescope Array and next generation SETI
systems.


Now things changed in 1993 when Congress cut funding. This was very
controversial and still being discussed during posting in 1994.

http://www.planetary.org/html/UPDATE...chronology.htm

October 1, 1993: Congress cuts funding for HRMS, NASA's SETI program.
This effectively ended NASA's involvement in SETI after more than 20
years of research but only one year of operation.

If you want to find out more do a web search in SETI and Senator Richard Bryan
of Nevada.

I fear that as with SETI itself, you confuse your lack of knowledge with
positive information. It ain't. What we do not know is not proof of ET
life in the galaxy, and it is also not evidence. No mathematics can make
ET exist, or prove ET exists. It's exactly the same as the story about
Euler proving god exists algebraically, fatally flawed at a preposterously
fundamental level.

Still, most of the support for SETI indeed comes from a basis of "faith and
belief". ET 'must' exist because the believers cannot believe the universe
could be any other way. It's a belief system identical with the belief that
we are the only life in the universe because god created no other planets.
You can fence the belief in with math if you want, but the belief remains
what it is.

Rich

In infinite wisdom Rich answered:


In infinite wisdom Martin G. Diehl answered:

Rich wrote:

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the Drake Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

: To me the most astounding hypothesis is: There is just one
: intelligent civilization in this Galaxy or in the Universe.
: All I can say to that is that it is false! It is just : beyond me
to believe that we are the only intelligent : beings in this Galaxy
or the Universe. It goes against : everything in nature that I know.
There is never just one! : There is always statistics and
distributions of things.

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith and belief. And
you *still* want to suck my tax dollars

What tax dollars?

Where did you read that the SETI At Home project gets tax dollars.

This is a post from 1994. Read the header. And read my note
before the post.

It occurs to me that 1994 was a while ago and not everyone would be
aware of the controversy at the time. Up till 1994 NASA had indeed been
sponsoring SETI research...

http://www.seti.org/about_us/institute_history.html

[...]

The first research grant awarded to the Institute was funded by
NASA on February 1, 1985 in response to a proposal submitted by
Dr. Jill Tarter. This initial project was to participate in NASA's
research and development effort to define a Targeted Search SETI
effort. By mid-1985 the Institute had received its first Life in
the Universe research funding for work led by Dr. H. P. Klein.

From the mid 1980's through the conclusion of the NASA SETI project
in early 1994, the SETI Institute continued as a primary grantee
playing a major role in the NASA Targeted Search SETI effort. All
SETI research conducted by the Institute since 1994 has been funded
by private, philanthropic support for Project Phoenix and advance
design work on the Allen Telescope Array and next generation SETI
systems.


Now things changed in 1993 when Congress cut funding. This was very
controversial and still being discussed during posting in 1994.

http://www.planetary.org/html/UPDATE...chronology.htm

October 1, 1993: Congress cuts funding for HRMS, NASA's SETI program.
This effectively ended NASA's involvement in SETI after more than 20
years of research but only one year of operation.

If you want to find out more do a web search in SETI and Senator Richard Bryan
of Nevada.

I fear that as with SETI itself, you confuse your lack of knowledge with
positive information. It ain't. What we do not know is not proof of ET
life in the galaxy, and it is also not evidence. No mathematics can make
ET exist, or prove ET exists. It's exactly the same as the story about
Euler proving god exists algebraically, fatally flawed at a preposterously
fundamental level.

Still, most of the support for SETI indeed comes from a basis of "faith and
belief". ET 'must' exist because the believers cannot believe the universe
could be any other way. It's a belief system identical with the belief that
we are the only life in the universe because god created no other planets.
You can fence the belief in with math if you want, but the belief remains
what it is.

Rich

Rich wrote:

In infinite wisdom Rich answered:

In infinite wisdom Martin G. Diehl answered:

Please note that I did not claim any special wisdom

Rich wrote:

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the Drake
Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

[snip]

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith
and belief. And you *still* want to suck my tax dollars

What tax dollars?

Where did you read that the SETI At Home project gets tax
dollars.

This is a post from 1994. Read the header. And read my note
before the post.

[snip]

10 years ago! So what!

Rich

Go away TROLL!

plonq

--
Martin G. Diehl

Reality -- That which remains after you stop thinking
about it.

All replies and comments accepted and considered.
Adoption of your suggestions are at my sole discretion.
Award criteria are unpublished and are considered to
be a trade secret. As such, awards for your responses
cannot be guaranteed. Incoming flames may be stored
for use during severe winters or may be circulated for
deep analysis, peer review, and/or literary criticism.

Rich wrote:

In infinite wisdom Rich answered:

In infinite wisdom Martin G. Diehl answered:

Please note that I did not claim any special wisdom

Rich wrote:

Some blasts from the pasts...

=============================

From: Steven J. Crisp )
Subject: Bathypelagic fish, gold bars and the Drake
Equation

View this article only
Newsgroups: sci.astro
Date: 1994-10-17 02:28:20 PST

Alfred A. Aburto ) wrote:

[snip]

And thus, the epistemological basis for SETI - faith
and belief. And you *still* want to suck my tax dollars

What tax dollars?

Where did you read that the SETI At Home project gets tax
dollars.

This is a post from 1994. Read the header. And read my note
before the post.

[snip]

10 years ago! So what!

Rich

Go away TROLL!

plonq

--
Martin G. Diehl

Reality -- That which remains after you stop thinking
about it.

All replies and comments accepted and considered.
Adoption of your suggestions are at my sole discretion.
Award criteria are unpublished and are considered to
be a trade secret. As such, awards for your responses
cannot be guaranteed. Incoming flames may be stored
for use during severe winters or may be circulated for
deep analysis, peer review, and/or literary criticism.

Still, most of the support for SETI indeed comes from a basis of "faith and
belief". ET 'must' exist because the believers cannot believe the universe
could be any other way.
You can fence the belief in with math if you want, but the belief
remains what it is.

I agree with Rich, it is a belief - currently there is no evidence for
or against extraterrestrial life, although that might change in the
future. Our faith keeps us looking for the evidence.

It's a belief system identical with the belief that
we are the only life in the universe because god created no other planets.

I can't agree with 'god created no other planets.' Nowhere is that
written down and observations indicate we have found 100+ exoplanets.