A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Amateur Astronomy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Canada Joins Lunar Gateway



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old March 5th 19, 09:40 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 659
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 at 8:11:44 AM UTC-7, Quadibloc wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:

Well, that demands a lot more space than is reasonable here. Look at
the work of Wilkinson, Pickett, Stiglitz. The correlations between
income, and especially wealth, inequality are strong and extend to
virtually every social ill. (And it is seen over solid data extending
back over 250 years.)


At this point, I was going to reply that a correlation, without a causative
mechanism, tends to be viewed as unsatisfying. But I see this was addressed.

And there is a growing body of work by social
scientists and economists explaining the causative factors. And it
isn't being poor. Social problems are far more severe in rich nations
with large inequality than in poor ones that are more egalitarian.


That sounds kind of like the "envy" effect that John mentioned.

In the end, it probably comes down to our sense of fairness, and our
sense of common identity. When disparities grow too large, we end up
with class struggles and a society with subcultures where there is no
common identity.


Here, though, I would suggest that cause and effect are reversed.

A country like Sweden can have a very robust social safety net, because,
until quite recently, just about everyone there was a Swede. There wasn't
some large group of people in the country who were despised for being
lazy, for not having paid attention in school, and expecting the same
rewards as those who are diligent.

People will share with their brothers, but not with foreigners.

And thus the contention of Libertarians that the Right and the Left are
both the same thing, since both lead the way to more government control
... among many other things. People have an idea of fairness that includes
equality - but it also includes equality of effort. When you have diversity
in a society, things break down.

John Savard


So diversity isn't the great thing it's cracked up to be? I guess not
when the diversity is in degree of effort.

"By working faithfully eight hours a day you may eventually get to be
boss and work twelve hours a day."*-- Robert Frost

“I am a great believer in luck. And I find the harder I work the more I
have of it.” -- Stephen Leacock

“Socialism never took root in America because the poor there see
themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily
embarrassed millionaires.” – John Steinbeck

I guess we don't think that way any more :-(
Ads
  #22  
Old March 6th 19, 12:10 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,989
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

Chris L Peterson:
In the end, it probably comes down to our sense of fairness, and our
sense of common identity.


I have not traditionally been a pessimist, but I am coming to believe
that our sense of fairness and our sense of common identity have been
shattered.

When disparities grow too large, we end up
with class struggles and a society with subcultures where there is no
common identity.


Likewise, I fear that we have already reached that situation. I think
that if the U.S.A. is not a failed state it is on its way to becoming
one. Roughly half the country loathes the beliefs of the other half and
it seems the two halves share little or no social common ground, no
compatible hopes for the country's future. I can't see how the social
and political aims of the two halves can be reconciled.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #23  
Old March 6th 19, 02:04 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

On Tue, 05 Mar 2019 18:10:23 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Chris L Peterson:
In the end, it probably comes down to our sense of fairness, and our
sense of common identity.


I have not traditionally been a pessimist, but I am coming to believe
that our sense of fairness and our sense of common identity have been
shattered.

When disparities grow too large, we end up
with class struggles and a society with subcultures where there is no
common identity.


Likewise, I fear that we have already reached that situation. I think
that if the U.S.A. is not a failed state it is on its way to becoming
one. Roughly half the country loathes the beliefs of the other half and
it seems the two halves share little or no social common ground, no
compatible hopes for the country's future. I can't see how the social
and political aims of the two halves can be reconciled.


I tend to believe that the U.S. is a failed (or failing) nation... a
problem that ultimately goes back to a flawed Constitution, one which
created the Senate, one which created self-governing states, and one
which is simply too hard to change.
  #24  
Old March 6th 19, 06:48 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,018
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 at 1:40:31 PM UTC-7, Gary Harnagel wrote:

So diversity isn't the great thing it's cracked up to be? I guess not
when the diversity is in degree of effort.


That's true, but I don't think I made myself clear enough.

Welfare measures are less popular in those countries where, due to diversity,
there is a _perceived_ difference in degree of effort, even if it isn't real.

John Savard
  #25  
Old March 6th 19, 05:25 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 189
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

On 06/03/2019 01:04, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Tue, 05 Mar 2019 18:10:23 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Chris L Peterson:
In the end, it probably comes down to our sense of fairness, and our
sense of common identity.


I have not traditionally been a pessimist, but I am coming to believe
that our sense of fairness and our sense of common identity have been
shattered.

When disparities grow too large, we end up
with class struggles and a society with subcultures where there is no
common identity.


Likewise, I fear that we have already reached that situation. I think
that if the U.S.A. is not a failed state it is on its way to becoming
one. Roughly half the country loathes the beliefs of the other half and
it seems the two halves share little or no social common ground, no
compatible hopes for the country's future. I can't see how the social
and political aims of the two halves can be reconciled.


I tend to believe that the U.S. is a failed (or failing) nation... a
problem that ultimately goes back to a flawed Constitution, one which
created the Senate, one which created self-governing states, and one
which is simply too hard to change.


I think it will become more sensible again once you have stopped
electing deranged narcissistic reality TV stars as President.

It is unclear what can be done to solve the US electoral system which
basically requires obscene amounts of money just to be in the game.
You have a de facto plutocracy with ugly populist tendencies that
pretends superficially to be "democratic" but only when it suits them.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #26  
Old March 6th 19, 05:43 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 16:25:41 +0000, Martin Brown
wrote:

I tend to believe that the U.S. is a failed (or failing) nation... a
problem that ultimately goes back to a flawed Constitution, one which
created the Senate, one which created self-governing states, and one
which is simply too hard to change.


I think it will become more sensible again once you have stopped
electing deranged narcissistic reality TV stars as President.

It is unclear what can be done to solve the US electoral system which
basically requires obscene amounts of money just to be in the game.
You have a de facto plutocracy with ugly populist tendencies that
pretends superficially to be "democratic" but only when it suits them.


I hope you're right, but I'm not optimistic. The fundamental
structural flaw of states and states' rights is probably unfixable.
And that leads to so many inequalities, which leads to so much social
damage. And it makes addressing so many serious problems that other
countries are finding ways of dealing with impossible in the U.S.
  #27  
Old March 7th 19, 06:49 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,989
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

Chris L Peterson:
I tend to believe that the U.S. is a failed (or failing) nation... a
problem that ultimately goes back to a flawed Constitution, one which
created the Senate, one which created self-governing states, and one
which is simply too hard to change.


Martin Brown:
I think it will become more sensible again once you have stopped
electing deranged narcissistic reality TV stars as President.


Just to clarify: the American people chose Mrs. Clinton to be president
by a majority of three million votes, but we have an uncorrectable
defect in our Constitution that gave the presidency to the ****gibbon.

It is unclear what can be done to solve the US electoral system which
basically requires obscene amounts of money just to be in the game.
You have a de facto plutocracy with ugly populist tendencies that
pretends superficially to be "democratic" but only when it suits them.


The answer is most likely that nothing can be done. As Mr. Peterson
said, "failed (or failing) nation."

It gives me no pleasure to note that you also live in a failed or
failing state. No pleasure because it is my Motherland as well and I
still have family there (Home Counties, Northumberland, Scotland).

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #28  
Old March 7th 19, 07:40 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 189
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

On 07/03/2019 17:49, Davoud wrote:
Chris L Peterson:
I tend to believe that the U.S. is a failed (or failing) nation... a
problem that ultimately goes back to a flawed Constitution, one which
created the Senate, one which created self-governing states, and one
which is simply too hard to change.


Martin Brown:
I think it will become more sensible again once you have stopped
electing deranged narcissistic reality TV stars as President.


Just to clarify: the American people chose Mrs. Clinton to be president
by a majority of three million votes, but we have an uncorrectable
defect in our Constitution that gave the presidency to the ****gibbon.

It is unclear what can be done to solve the US electoral system which
basically requires obscene amounts of money just to be in the game.
You have a de facto plutocracy with ugly populist tendencies that
pretends superficially to be "democratic" but only when it suits them.


The answer is most likely that nothing can be done. As Mr. Peterson
said, "failed (or failing) nation."

It gives me no pleasure to note that you also live in a failed or
failing state. No pleasure because it is my Motherland as well and I
still have family there (Home Counties, Northumberland, Scotland).


It hasn't failed yet although time is running out and the Brexit clock
is still ticking. I'll let you know what it is like post 29/3 11pm.

My guess is that there will be food shortages and total road gridlock in
the region around Dover and the Channel ports. I gather Failing Grayling
has become something of a US celebrity (but for all the wrong reasons).

The contract he awarded to the British ferry company with no ferries and
no track record of running any facilities really took the biscuit. But
it was only the last in a long line of his truly unbelievable cock ups.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #29  
Old March 7th 19, 08:00 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,551
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

On Thursday, March 7, 2019 at 5:50:02 PM UTC, Davoud wrote:
"

It gives me no pleasure to note that you also live in a failed or
failing state. No pleasure because it is my Motherland as well and I
still have family there (Home Counties, Northumberland, Scotland).



My word, I thought this guy was going to say Fatherland for a moment but that term was taken up by the National Socialists.

The Brits have created quite a spectacle that belies the outward appearance of stability and civility but then again this is what happens when public schoolboys let their imagination run away with themselves as it did in late 17th century 'enlightenment' circles thereby destroying astronomy for a number of centuries.

You have 17 million leave voters on the hook for an International peace agreement and they think it is an obstacle !.

  #30  
Old March 22nd 19, 01:40 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,472
Default Canada Joins Lunar Gateway

On Thursday, March 7, 2019 at 12:50:02 PM UTC-5, Davoud wrote:
Chris L Peterson:
I tend to believe that the U.S. is a failed (or failing) nation... a
problem that ultimately goes back to a flawed Constitution, one which
created the Senate, one which created self-governing states, and one
which is simply too hard to change.


Martin Brown:
I think it will become more sensible again once you have stopped
electing deranged narcissistic reality TV stars as President.


Just to clarify: the American people chose Mrs. Clinton to be president
by a majority of three million votes, but we have an uncorrectable
defect in our Constitution that gave the presidency to the ****gibbon.

It is unclear what can be done to solve the US electoral system which
basically requires obscene amounts of money just to be in the game.
You have a de facto plutocracy with ugly populist tendencies that
pretends superficially to be "democratic" but only when it suits them.


The answer is most likely that nothing can be done. As Mr. Peterson
said, "failed (or failing) nation."

It gives me no pleasure to note that you also live in a failed or
failing state. No pleasure because it is my Motherland as well and I
still have family there (Home Counties, Northumberland, Scotland).


The moron Da-void and idiot peterson fail to understand the system of checks and balances built into the Constitution, the Senate and the Electoral College being among those checks and balances.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
space video gateway cole smith Space Station 0 July 16th 06 03:37 PM
Smart1 at gateway Ray Vingnutte Misc 8 November 17th 04 01:56 PM
Gateway-Test-02-25a (ignore) Don Wells FITS 4 March 15th 04 04:39 PM
Canada Joins NASA 2007 Mission to Mars/York U. celebrates "Phoenix"Mars Mission Win (Forwarded) Andrew Yee Astronomy Misc 0 August 7th 03 05:57 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2021 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.