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Leak on ISS
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018...airs-continue/
Apparently there's a 2mm leak on-board ISS that's been tracked down to Soyuz. I'm sure some folks be all gloom and doom and all, but NASA is very much treating this as a very minor incident. It'll be easily patched. (and I fact looks like it has been). It's in the orbital module so any outside damage (assuming it's due to orbital debris) should pose no threat to re-entry. But this got me thinking... NASA and the Russians have always treated the Soyuz as lifeboats. But I've never seen any talk of plans for if the Soyuz Descent module was highly damaged (let's say a lot larger than a 2mm leak). Sure, you could probably plug most, but at some size and position, it could make re-entry pretty hairy. Years ago, the Soviets had a production rate they probably could just speed up the next Soyuz launch (and do it uncrewed) but these days, it would probably be 3+ months. On the other hand, once Starliner and Dragon 2 come online, there's a lot more options. -- Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/ CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net IT Disaster Response - https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Resp...dp/1484221834/ |
#2
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Leak on ISS
JF Mezei wrote on Thu, 30 Aug 2018
23:36:07 -0400: On 2018-08-30 22:08, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote: https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018...airs-continue/ Apparently there's a 2mm leak on-board ISS that's been tracked down to Soyuz. Earlier today, the CBC reported that it was in the module to which the SOyuz was docked (aka: part of ISS). That one crewmember "sealed" it by putting finger on it to test it temporarily. a 2mm hole should be quite easy to patch. There's no such thing as an 'easy patch'. Some are just less difficult than others. Since it now seems to be on the Soyuz orbital module, no permanment damage to ISS. (and I guess Soyuz don't have much in terms of micro meteorite protection?) I would assume that the next return to Earth will be planned to minmise time between undocking and de=orbit burn and separation of orbital-module so crews would have to spend less time in it. Since the part with the leak is jettisoned for reentry, I don't know why they just wouldn't have airtight doors closed so it doesn't matter. Lets assume the hole had been on the descent module, and that during re-entry, the heat would have jeoperdized the patch. (In reality, i assume outside insulation would shield the hole in pressure vessel from extreme re-entry heat, right?) I'd be concerned about a hot spot developing where it's patched. Is it safe to assume that crew could close helmets and live off piped pressurized air in the Sokhol suits during the full descent until at ground altitude and capsule re-pressurized? If it won't hold air I'd be pretty concerned about sending people down in it. But this got me thinking... NASA and the Russians have always treated the Soyuz as lifeboats. But I've never seen any talk of plans for if the Soyuz Descent module was highly damaged Highly damaged might require a hatch be closed and allowing it to go to vacuum in order to preserve ISS atmosphere. If it was 'highly damaged' it would probably just be jettisoned. can do do an inside EVA to ingress the Soyuz using EVA suits or woudl the only solution be using a Sokhol suit with some portable breating pack that provides O2 for a while? I could see them either trying to fix it, or going in to manually release the docking then exit Soyuz and push it away. (one would assume that if the cabin is left in vacuum for too long, the electronics would be fried and non-operational, right?) or could they undock it manually in a real EVA from outdoors ? I would assume you could do an automated jettison from the docking port. We design everything on an airplane that's 'removable' to do that, so I'm not sure why the docking ports wouldn't be designed that way. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden |
#4
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Leak on ISS
In article ,
says... On 2018-08-30 22:08, Greg (Strider) Moore wrote: https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018...airs-continue/ Apparently there's a 2mm leak on-board ISS that's been tracked down to Soyuz. Earlier today, the CBC reported that it was in the module to which the SOyuz was docked (aka: part of ISS). That one crewmember "sealed" it by putting finger on it to test it temporarily. a 2mm hole should be quite easy to patch. It's already permanently patched. The Russians fixed it in a timely manner. Since it now seems to be on the Soyuz orbital module, no permanment damage to ISS. (and I guess Soyuz don't have much in terms of micro meteorite protection?) I would assume that the next return to Earth will be planned to minmise time between undocking and de=orbit burn and separation of orbital-module so crews would have to spend less time in it. I would not assume this. The hole is patched. The Soyuz will almost surely follow the normal reentry procedures. It's the Russians. They're not going to be overly cautious here. Lets assume the hole had been on the descent module, and that during re-entry, the heat would have jeoperdized the patch. (In reality, i assume outside insulation would shield the hole in pressure vessel from extreme re-entry heat, right?) This is why the Russians have worn pressure suits during launch and landing ever since they lost a Soyuz crew that wasn't wearing any (they had a depressurization failure before reentry and all died). Is it safe to assume that crew could close helmets and live off piped pressurized air in the Sokhol suits during the full descent until at ground altitude and capsule re-pressurized? Yes, that's why they wear the damn suits. But this got me thinking... NASA and the Russians have always treated the Soyuz as lifeboats. But I've never seen any talk of plans for if the Soyuz Descent module was highly damaged Highly damaged might require a hatch be closed and allowing it to go to vacuum in order to preserve ISS atmosphere. can do do an inside EVA to ingress the Soyuz using EVA suits or woudl the only solution be using a Sokhol suit with some portable breating pack that provides O2 for a while? I could see them either trying to fix it, or going in to manually release the docking then exit Soyuz and push it away. (one would assume that if the cabin is left in vacuum for too long, the electronics would be fried and non-operational, right?) or could they undock it manually in a real EVA from outdoors ? Do note that the Russians have performed internal EVAs on Mir through similar sized hatches. If you want to learn about that, Google it. Besides, if anyone can figure out how to do something with the Russian modules, it's the Russians. Worst case, I'd imagine they could get rid of the damaged Soyuz by remote control. Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of. |
#5
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Leak on ISS
"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
... In article , says... https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018...airs-continue/ Apparently there's a 2mm leak on-board ISS that's been tracked down to Soyuz. I'm sure some folks be all gloom and doom and all, but NASA is very much treating this as a very minor incident. It was. The Russians were getting ready to permanently patch it and the US astronauts were talking to their mission control trying to get them to convince the Russians that the proposed permanent patch should be studied for at least 24 hours. In response, the Russians just patched the hole in their module using some epoxy sealant and medical gauze. It seems to have worked. This highlights the cultural difference that the cosmonauts generally have more autonomy where US astronauts generally have mission control plan everything out for them and test things on the ground before they implement even the simplest fixes. Apparently this is so common in US astronauts that they get worried when cosmonauts don't do things their way, like patching a (reportedly) 2mm diameter hole in a Russian module. That's freaking tiny. And 1 atm of pressure differential isn't that much at all. It'll be easily patched. (and I fact looks like it has been). It's in the orbital module so any outside damage (assuming it's due to orbital debris) should pose no threat to re-entry. Agreed. Sine the orbital module is discarded after the reentry burn, it's not that big of an issue. The Soyuz would be fine to use for reentry even if the leak reoccurs. But this got me thinking... NASA and the Russians have always treated the Soyuz as lifeboats. But I've never seen any talk of plans for if the Soyuz Descent module was highly damaged (let's say a lot larger than a 2mm leak). Sure, you could probably plug most, but at some size and position, it could make re-entry pretty hairy. You'd likely shelter in place at ISS and wait for a replacement crew vehicles to bring you back. This was discussed years ago. No one is 100% sure if the current Soyuz could launch and dock with ISS without a crew, but it stands to reason it could since Progress does just that. Years ago, the Soviets had a production rate they probably could just speed up the next Soyuz launch (and do it uncrewed) but these days, it would probably be 3+ months. On the other hand, once Starliner and Dragon 2 come online, there's a lot more options. Agreed. And Starliner and Dragon 2 will have more seats, so more options to launch a "rescue" mission. NASA has certainly been thinking about this, especially after the Columbia disaster. On the NASA side, I'm sure they've thought more about it than the Russians (again, cultural differences). Jeff I have to admit I hadn't fully read the article I linked to until after posting (I had read a briefer Time.com article though). But, as I've said in the past, heck, worst case, I'd be willing to fly in a Cargo Dragon NOW if need be, up or down.. wouldn't be the most pleasant ride for sure. And given how quickly SpaceX can turn things around and how close they are to launching Crew Dragon... I could see them (and the article touches upon this) rushing to launch. On an unrelated note, this is one reason why as much as I LOVED the book The Martian, I laugh that it has so quickly become outdated in a sense. If something like that happened in today's "history", SpaceX could probably launch even very limited supplies within about 3 months! And try again 3 months later! -- Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/ CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net IT Disaster Response - https://www.amazon.com/Disaster-Resp...dp/1484221834/ |
#6
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Leak on ISS
Jeff Findley wrote on Fri, 31 Aug 2018
06:20:18 -0400: In article , says... https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018...airs-continue/ Apparently there's a 2mm leak on-board ISS that's been tracked down to Soyuz. I'm sure some folks be all gloom and doom and all, but NASA is very much treating this as a very minor incident. It was. The Russians were getting ready to permanently patch it and the US astronauts were talking to their mission control trying to get them to convince the Russians that the proposed permanent patch should be studied for at least 24 hours. In response, the Russians just patched the hole in their module using some epoxy sealant and medical gauze. It seems to have worked. This highlights the cultural difference that the cosmonauts generally have more autonomy where US astronauts generally have mission control plan everything out for them and test things on the ground before they implement even the simplest fixes. Apparently this is so common in US astronauts that they get worried when cosmonauts don't do things their way, like patching a (reportedly) 2mm diameter hole in a Russian module. That's freaking tiny. And 1 atm of pressure differential isn't that much at all. NASA likes to have everything tested on the ground to make sure it works and won't kill anyone. Russians are a little more 'relaxed' about that. Years ago, the Soviets had a production rate they probably could just speed up the next Soyuz launch (and do it uncrewed) but these days, it would probably be 3+ months. On the other hand, once Starliner and Dragon 2 come online, there's a lot more options. Agreed. And Starliner and Dragon 2 will have more seats, so more options to launch a "rescue" mission. NASA will never (according to their current plans) send up more than three or four people at once, so with seven seats there are always spare seats (although Boeing is approved to sell 'extra' seats to 'tourists'). -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden |
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