...Northern Forests being decimated by Global Warming

Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impac...ming_in_Alaska


It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."
http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impac...ming_in_Alaska


A minor change in one system can create exponential rates
of change in related systems.

For instance, imagine if we were able to change the
amount of sunlight hitting the Earth. It might seem 'natural'
to assume a tiny change would have a proportional effect.
But since almost ...every ecosystem on Earth is highly
dependent upon that 'global' variable, all systems are
effected at the ...same time.

A minor change in such a highly parallel or global variable
acts like a...shock-wave.

At first only a few sensitive or minor systems go belly-up, but
they soon spread to closely related and then larger systems
until even the most stable systems can no longer survive.

Little can stand to exponential rates of change.

This cascading or exaggerated effect of non-linear behavior
is best seen in places like Alaska, where minor changes
in the mid-latitudes create highly exaggerated effects in
the north. Massive ice-melts, loss of northern forests and
warming tundra will be amplified by reduced carbon sinks,
huge methane releases and rising oceans.

A minor change down here spreads north, then later
comes back to us amplified ten fold.

The argument has gone from is it warming?
To what's the ..cause of the warming?
Once a pattern in nature becomes clear, it's
t o o l a t e.

So what does our future hold?



"The trees held up
Their mangled limbs
Like animals in pain,
When Nature falls
Upon herself,
Beware an Austrian!"



s

Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's a waste of time discussing nonlinearity with deniers. It's way
over their empty heads.

Deniers think a trillion wasted picking winners and losers with Iraq
is OK while half a billion wasted on picking winners and losers with
Solandra is not OK.

The reasaon is deniers think a trillion is less than a million.


Bret Cahill

On 4/1/2012 11:20 PM, Bret Cahill wrote:
Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's a waste of time discussing nonlinearity with deniers. It's way
over their empty heads.

Deniers think a trillion wasted picking winners and losers with Iraq
is OK while half a billion wasted on picking winners and losers with
Solandra is not OK.

The reasaon is deniers think a trillion is less than a million.

When you don't have neither and you are borrowing them both it really
doesn't matter does it?

--
*He has the most who is most content with the least* -Diogenes-

In article
,
Bret Cahill wrote:

Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to
1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the
estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's a waste of time discussing nonlinearity with deniers. It's way
over their empty heads.

Deniers think a trillion wasted picking winners and losers with Iraq
is OK while half a billion wasted on picking winners and losers with
Solandra is not OK.

The reasaon is deniers think a trillion is less than a million.


Bret Cahill

Try Voluntary Extinction. fewer humans - better Earth's ecology
http://www.vhemt.org/aboutvhemt.htm#vhemt
--
Karma, What a concept!

On Apr 1, 7:33*pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

A minor change in one system can create exponential rates
of change in related systems.

For instance, imagine if we were able to change the
amount of sunlight hitting the Earth. It might seem 'natural'
to assume a tiny change would have a proportional effect.
But since almost ...every ecosystem on Earth is highly
dependent upon that 'global' variable, *all systems are
effected at the ...same time.

A minor change in such a highly parallel or global variable
acts like a...shock-wave.

At first only a few sensitive or minor systems go belly-up, but
they soon spread to closely related and then larger systems
until even the most stable systems can no longer survive.

Little can stand to exponential rates of change.

This cascading or exaggerated effect of non-linear behavior
is best seen in places like Alaska, where minor changes
in the mid-latitudes create highly exaggerated effects in
the north. Massive ice-melts, loss of northern forests and
warming tundra will be amplified by reduced carbon sinks,
huge methane releases and rising oceans.

A minor change down here spreads north, then later
comes back to us amplified ten fold.

The argument has gone from is it warming?
To what's the ..cause of the warming?
Once a pattern in nature becomes clear, it's
t o o *l a t e.

So what does our future hold?

* * "The trees held up
* * *Their mangled limbs
* * *Like animals in pain,
* * *When Nature falls
* * *Upon herself,
* * *Beware an Austrian!"

s

More bull****. No proof that 1) forests have died off, and 2) no proof
that any die-off has anything to do with global warming and 3) no
proof that any warming is due to trace amounts of man made CO2.

0 for 3.

On Apr 2, 2:33*am, "Jonathan" wrote:
Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

A minor change in one system can create exponential rates
of change in related systems.

For instance, imagine if we were able to change the
amount of sunlight hitting the Earth. It might seem 'natural'
to assume a tiny change would have a proportional effect.
But since almost ...every ecosystem on Earth is highly
dependent upon that 'global' variable, *all systems are
effected at the ...same time.

A minor change in such a highly parallel or global variable
acts like a...shock-wave.

At first only a few sensitive or minor systems go belly-up, but
they soon spread to closely related and then larger systems
until even the most stable systems can no longer survive.

Little can stand to exponential rates of change.

This cascading or exaggerated effect of non-linear behavior
is best seen in places like Alaska, where minor changes
in the mid-latitudes create highly exaggerated effects in
the north. Massive ice-melts, loss of northern forests and
warming tundra will be amplified by reduced carbon sinks,
huge methane releases and rising oceans.

A minor change down here spreads north, then later
comes back to us amplified ten fold.

The argument has gone from is it warming?
To what's the ..cause of the warming?
Once a pattern in nature becomes clear, it's
t o o *l a t e.

So what does our future hold?

* * "The trees held up
* * *Their mangled limbs
* * *Like animals in pain,
* * *When Nature falls
* * *Upon herself,
* * *Beware an Austrian!"

s
FAIL!
http://www.fs.fed.us/news/2012/relea...t-growth.shtml

On Apr 3, 12:56*am, matt_sykes wrote:
On Apr 2, 2:33*am, "Jonathan" wrote:







Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

A minor change in one system can create exponential rates
of change in related systems.

For instance, imagine if we were able to change the
amount of sunlight hitting the Earth. It might seem 'natural'
to assume a tiny change would have a proportional effect.
But since almost ...every ecosystem on Earth is highly
dependent upon that 'global' variable, *all systems are
effected at the ...same time.

A minor change in such a highly parallel or global variable
acts like a...shock-wave.

At first only a few sensitive or minor systems go belly-up, but
they soon spread to closely related and then larger systems
until even the most stable systems can no longer survive.

Little can stand to exponential rates of change.

This cascading or exaggerated effect of non-linear behavior
is best seen in places like Alaska, where minor changes
in the mid-latitudes create highly exaggerated effects in
the north. Massive ice-melts, loss of northern forests and
warming tundra will be amplified by reduced carbon sinks,
huge methane releases and rising oceans.

A minor change down here spreads north, then later
comes back to us amplified ten fold.

The argument has gone from is it warming?
To what's the ..cause of the warming?
Once a pattern in nature becomes clear, it's
t o o *l a t e.

So what does our future hold?

* * "The trees held up
* * *Their mangled limbs
* * *Like animals in pain,
* * *When Nature falls
* * *Upon herself,
* * *Beware an Austrian!"

s

FAIL!http://www.fs.fed.us/news/2012/relea...t-growth.shtml

Fast growth and especially broad-leaf trees really don't count the
same.

Older forest trees of 100+ year growth are worth counting and
protecting (expanding).

70+ years of badly infected forests and acidic damaged growth are
major factors.

http://groups.google.com/groups/search
http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

On Apr 4, 7:15*am, Brad Guth wrote:
On Apr 3, 12:56*am, matt_sykes wrote:









On Apr 2, 2:33*am, "Jonathan" wrote:

Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

A minor change in one system can create exponential rates
of change in related systems.

For instance, imagine if we were able to change the
amount of sunlight hitting the Earth. It might seem 'natural'
to assume a tiny change would have a proportional effect.
But since almost ...every ecosystem on Earth is highly
dependent upon that 'global' variable, *all systems are
effected at the ...same time.

A minor change in such a highly parallel or global variable
acts like a...shock-wave.

At first only a few sensitive or minor systems go belly-up, but
they soon spread to closely related and then larger systems
until even the most stable systems can no longer survive.

Little can stand to exponential rates of change.

This cascading or exaggerated effect of non-linear behavior
is best seen in places like Alaska, where minor changes
in the mid-latitudes create highly exaggerated effects in
the north. Massive ice-melts, loss of northern forests and
warming tundra will be amplified by reduced carbon sinks,
huge methane releases and rising oceans.

A minor change down here spreads north, then later
comes back to us amplified ten fold.

The argument has gone from is it warming?
To what's the ..cause of the warming?
Once a pattern in nature becomes clear, it's
t o o *l a t e.

So what does our future hold?

* * "The trees held up
* * *Their mangled limbs
* * *Like animals in pain,
* * *When Nature falls
* * *Upon herself,
* * *Beware an Austrian!"

s

FAIL!http://www.fs.fed.us/news/2012/relea...t-growth.shtml

Fast growth and especially broad-leaf trees really don't count the
same.

Older forest trees of 100+ year growth are worth counting and
protecting (expanding).

70+ years of badly infected forests and acidic damaged growth are
major factors.

*http://groups.google.com/groups/search
*http://translate.google.com/#
*Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

True, but irrelevant. For whatever reason forests are doing well in
the US, in fact aided somewhat by CO2.

On Apr 4, 1:23*am, bill jackson wrote:
On Apr 4, 7:15*am, Brad Guth wrote:









On Apr 3, 12:56*am, matt_sykes wrote:

On Apr 2, 2:33*am, "Jonathan" wrote:

Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

A minor change in one system can create exponential rates
of change in related systems.

For instance, imagine if we were able to change the
amount of sunlight hitting the Earth. It might seem 'natural'
to assume a tiny change would have a proportional effect.
But since almost ...every ecosystem on Earth is highly
dependent upon that 'global' variable, *all systems are
effected at the ...same time.

A minor change in such a highly parallel or global variable
acts like a...shock-wave.

At first only a few sensitive or minor systems go belly-up, but
they soon spread to closely related and then larger systems
until even the most stable systems can no longer survive.

Little can stand to exponential rates of change.

This cascading or exaggerated effect of non-linear behavior
is best seen in places like Alaska, where minor changes
in the mid-latitudes create highly exaggerated effects in
the north. Massive ice-melts, loss of northern forests and
warming tundra will be amplified by reduced carbon sinks,
huge methane releases and rising oceans.

A minor change down here spreads north, then later
comes back to us amplified ten fold.

The argument has gone from is it warming?
To what's the ..cause of the warming?
Once a pattern in nature becomes clear, it's
t o o *l a t e.

So what does our future hold?

* * "The trees held up
* * *Their mangled limbs
* * *Like animals in pain,
* * *When Nature falls
* * *Upon herself,
* * *Beware an Austrian!"

s

FAIL!http://www.fs.fed.us/news/2012/relea...t-growth.shtml

Fast growth and especially broad-leaf trees really don't count the
same.

Older forest trees of 100+ year growth are worth counting and
protecting (expanding).

70+ years of badly infected forests and acidic damaged growth are
major factors.

*http://groups.google.com/groups/search
*http://translate.google.com/#
*Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

True, but irrelevant. *For whatever reason forests are doing well in
the US, in fact aided somewhat by CO2.

CO2 benefits the fast growing plants, whereas the more acidic rain
suppresses and even kills the slower growth trees that we value the
most. Warmer climate also benefits tree parasites that'll destroy
entire areas of high value trees that'll get replaced by those fast
growing plants that some of us call invasive weeds and/or producing
low value trees (less than wood-chip or even pulp value) that'll make
for better forest fire fuel.

Nowadays a faster growth tree and its softer wood from a fifty year
old tree farm is considered old-growth. With that crappy type of wood
you can't hardly sink a nail into it without the board splitting,
because it doesn't have half the fiber binding density or the natural
binders of truly old growth trees from the 50s and before. Put a new
2x4 on the ground, and by the same time next year it's wasted, as well
as totally bent out of shape, so that you couldn't use it eve if you
had to.

Forth or fifth growth lumber that's from a 25 or 30 year forest is
absolute crap, but in a forest fire it burns really good, just like
the homes built from it get to burn to ground within minutes or easily
get blown apart by a storm because those nail-gun staples used have
nothing of any substance to sink into or grab onto. What a pathetic
joke.

http://groups.google.com/groups/search
http://translate.google.com/#
Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”
..

On Apr 5, 5:58*am, Brad Guth wrote:
On Apr 4, 1:23*am, bill jackson wrote:









On Apr 4, 7:15*am, Brad Guth wrote:

On Apr 3, 12:56*am, matt_sykes wrote:

On Apr 2, 2:33*am, "Jonathan" wrote:

Impacts of global warming in Alaska

"Cumulatively, during these two years, over 25% of the
forests in the northeast sector of Alaska perished"

"...wetlands in studied areas in the Kenai National Wildlife
Refuge have decreased by 88% from 1950 to 1996."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

It's easy for most people to dismiss a seemingly small increase
in temperatures as insignificant. But those assumptions are
because people still see the world in 'linear' ways. Two events
merely add to each other, a ball hit twice as hard
goes twice as far, and so on.

But that's ...not how nature works.

Nonlinear Science - Chaos Tamed

"This phenomena is known as sensitivity to initial conditions,
or the Butterfly Effect. It arises because the errors that
accumulate from each collision do not simply add (as linear
analyses assume), but increase exponentially and this
geometric progression rapidly diverges any initial state
to one that is unpredictably far from the estimate."http://www.eoearth.org/article/Impacts_of_global_warming_in_Alaska

A minor change in one system can create exponential rates
of change in related systems.

For instance, imagine if we were able to change the
amount of sunlight hitting the Earth. It might seem 'natural'
to assume a tiny change would have a proportional effect.
But since almost ...every ecosystem on Earth is highly
dependent upon that 'global' variable, *all systems are
effected at the ...same time.

A minor change in such a highly parallel or global variable
acts like a...shock-wave.

At first only a few sensitive or minor systems go belly-up, but
they soon spread to closely related and then larger systems
until even the most stable systems can no longer survive.

Little can stand to exponential rates of change.

This cascading or exaggerated effect of non-linear behavior
is best seen in places like Alaska, where minor changes
in the mid-latitudes create highly exaggerated effects in
the north. Massive ice-melts, loss of northern forests and
warming tundra will be amplified by reduced carbon sinks,
huge methane releases and rising oceans.

A minor change down here spreads north, then later
comes back to us amplified ten fold.

The argument has gone from is it warming?
To what's the ..cause of the warming?
Once a pattern in nature becomes clear, it's
t o o *l a t e.

So what does our future hold?

* * "The trees held up
* * *Their mangled limbs
* * *Like animals in pain,
* * *When Nature falls
* * *Upon herself,
* * *Beware an Austrian!"

s

FAIL!http://www.fs.fed.us/news/2012/relea...t-growth.shtml

Fast growth and especially broad-leaf trees really don't count the
same.

Older forest trees of 100+ year growth are worth counting and
protecting (expanding).

70+ years of badly infected forests and acidic damaged growth are
major factors.

*http://groups.google.com/groups/search
*http://translate.google.com/#
*Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”

True, but irrelevant. *For whatever reason forests are doing well in
the US, in fact aided somewhat by CO2.

CO2 benefits the fast growing plants, whereas the more acidic rain
suppresses and even kills the slower growth trees that we value the
most. *Warmer climate also benefits tree parasites that'll destroy
entire areas of high value trees that'll get replaced by those fast
growing plants that some of us call invasive weeds and/or producing
low value trees (less than wood-chip or even pulp value) that'll make
for better forest fire fuel.

Nowadays a faster growth tree and its softer wood from a fifty year
old tree farm is considered old-growth. *With that crappy type of wood
you can't hardly sink a nail into it without the board splitting,
because it doesn't have half the fiber binding density or the natural
binders of truly old growth trees from the 50s and before. *Put a new
2x4 on the ground, and by the same time next year it's wasted, as well
as totally bent out of shape, so that you couldn't use it eve if you
had to.

Forth or fifth growth lumber that's from a 25 or 30 year forest is
absolute crap, but in a forest fire it burns really good, just like
the homes built from it get to burn to ground within minutes or easily
get blown apart by a storm because those nail-gun staples used have
nothing of any substance to sink into or grab onto. *What a pathetic
joke.

*http://groups.google.com/groups/search
*http://translate.google.com/#
*Brad Guth, Brad_Guth, Brad.Guth, BradGuth, BG / “Guth Usenet”
.

And no doubt you will mention violins made during the LIA form close
grained, slow growing wood are better...


Fact is it is warmer. fact is forest growth is up. Get used to it,
regardless of te type of wood produced.