Aliens among us

On 3/25/2014 9:30 AM, Brad Guth wrote:

Aliens among us


I've followed this kind of stuff since mid/late 1950s.


And still no ****ing aliens.....



--
HVAC -Shock Treatment For Believers

On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:30:18 AM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:
On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC-7, wrote:

Aliens among us







Previously I gave pointers to Charles Fort who concluded after referring to events of the 1800s that humanity is owned by something the same way a school of fish is owned by a human who owns the land on which the pond is located. From time to time the owners come to have a bit of relaxation and sport and go fishing.







Fort explains the reason UFOs don't make contact with the President or the Queen for the same reason we don't make contact with a rooster and ask his leave before taking eggs. As proud and powerful as a rooster may feel in the morning walking through the hen house, it matters not to the farmer, or the bank that owns the note on the farm, or the traders that trade the note on the farm on which the hen, or the school of fish are located.











If true, this is very disturbing.







Here is what is going on today, according to some;







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJXAGrcN-E



I've followed this kind of stuff since mid/late 1950s.



ETs shouldn't have any problems with their exploiting us, just like us as terrestrial humanoids exploiting whatever a mostly frozen to death planet like Mars has to offer, or way better yet would be the failsafe innards of our moon and eventually accomplishing Venus shouldn't be so insurmountable.



Would ETs as our owners want us doing off-world stuff? (probably not)



Could ETs toy with us and even abduct an entire 777-200?



Our solar system is relatively new, and even more recent nearby stars with their planets have come and gone within the 4.5 billion years of whatever our cosmic existence has had to offer. It would be foolish to think we're alone and unique as to having evolved by way of only terrestrial means.

I am wondering what we would have that an alien would need. Assuming the reports in the previous video are accurate, there are only a few things that make sense to me;

(1) They are the products of a terrestrial break-away civilization currently unknown to us, which have evolved along with us throughout history,

(2) They are products of extra-terrestrial civilizations making use of uniquely human biology to bypass biometric locks on ancient human technologies,

In the first instance, they have a long-standing organic relationship to humanity and have evolved along with humanity. In the second instance, they have a continuing need of human biology and perhaps psychology, to maintain access to ancient human technology.

Any reasoning that doesn't involve either one or both of these points doesn't hold water. There is nothing about us, or about the Earth that makes continuing contact necessary.

haha - I'm working on a sci-fi novel I call 'People Farm:Up from the Sky'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aPcogx0MPw

As you know, you can't believe everything you see and hear
- Jimi Hendrix

This is a story about about a woman that explores possibility #2 above. A Linda Moulton Howe character that explores human mutiliation and discovers that humanity is an engineered species, derived from an earlier species that was the first to master intergalactic travel aeons ago, and has left behind them, a cosmic mechanism.

This mechanism safeguarded by biometric locks, requires functioning humans to access it. It is to bypass these locks that the remnants of the defeated world were combed by the combined alien races who worked against our anscestors. Their goal, to produce a milder, human off spring to operate the cosmic mechanism on their behalf. Since all now depend upon this bit of human ingenuity to maintain cosmic commerce.

In this novel, the ancient Atlantean myths are true. But the Atlanteans were not our original ancestors. They were an engineered culture, that was only a distant echo of the true human culture that came before well before it. Atlanteans were only the penultimate incarnation of an attempt to make a more docile humanity. Our forebears who possessed far more capacities than the humans in the Atlantean times, and the Atlanteans possessed far more capacities than we.

The present epoch, ended with the moon programme and nuclear weapons. This resulted in the assassination of JFK and the engineered demise of the the present global culture through alien intervention.

The next try to maintain the 'people farm' for the benefit of the allied races who defeated us, and depend on technology our ancestors built, will be to remove from the human experience the sexual and familial impulses from every day human existence. These will be reserved for the leaders who operate on the alien's behalf here on Earth. Just as the joys and experiences of the Atlanteans are reserved for a select few today.

Anyway, that's the story I'm working on.

On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 6:08:27 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:30:18 AM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:

On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC-7, wrote:



Aliens among us















Previously I gave pointers to Charles Fort who concluded after referring to events of the 1800s that humanity is owned by something the same way a school of fish is owned by a human who owns the land on which the pond is located. From time to time the owners come to have a bit of relaxation and sport and go fishing.















Fort explains the reason UFOs don't make contact with the President or the Queen for the same reason we don't make contact with a rooster and ask his leave before taking eggs. As proud and powerful as a rooster may feel in the morning walking through the hen house, it matters not to the farmer, or the bank that owns the note on the farm, or the traders that trade the note on the farm on which the hen, or the school of fish are located.























If true, this is very disturbing.















Here is what is going on today, according to some;















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJXAGrcN-E







I've followed this kind of stuff since mid/late 1950s.







ETs shouldn't have any problems with their exploiting us, just like us as terrestrial humanoids exploiting whatever a mostly frozen to death planet like Mars has to offer, or way better yet would be the failsafe innards of our moon and eventually accomplishing Venus shouldn't be so insurmountable.







Would ETs as our owners want us doing off-world stuff? (probably not)







Could ETs toy with us and even abduct an entire 777-200?







Our solar system is relatively new, and even more recent nearby stars with their planets have come and gone within the 4.5 billion years of whatever our cosmic existence has had to offer. It would be foolish to think we're alone and unique as to having evolved by way of only terrestrial means.



I am wondering what we would have that an alien would need. Assuming the reports in the previous video are accurate, there are only a few things that make sense to me;



(1) They are the products of a terrestrial break-away civilization currently unknown to us, which have evolved along with us throughout history,



(2) They are products of extra-terrestrial civilizations making use of uniquely human biology to bypass biometric locks on ancient human technologies,



In the first instance, they have a long-standing organic relationship to humanity and have evolved along with humanity. In the second instance, they have a continuing need of human biology and perhaps psychology, to maintain access to ancient human technology.



Any reasoning that doesn't involve either one or both of these points doesn't hold water. There is nothing about us, or about the Earth that makes continuing contact necessary.



haha - I'm working on a sci-fi novel I call 'People Farm:Up from the Sky'..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aPcogx0MPw



As you know, you can't believe everything you see and hear

- Jimi Hendrix



This is a story about about a woman that explores possibility #2 above. A Linda Moulton Howe character that explores human mutiliation and discovers that humanity is an engineered species, derived from an earlier species that was the first to master intergalactic travel aeons ago, and has left behind them, a cosmic mechanism.



This mechanism safeguarded by biometric locks, requires functioning humans to access it. It is to bypass these locks that the remnants of the defeated world were combed by the combined alien races who worked against our anscestors. Their goal, to produce a milder, human off spring to operate the cosmic mechanism on their behalf. Since all now depend upon this bit of human ingenuity to maintain cosmic commerce.



In this novel, the ancient Atlantean myths are true. But the Atlanteans were not our original ancestors. They were an engineered culture, that was only a distant echo of the true human culture that came before well before it. Atlanteans were only the penultimate incarnation of an attempt to make a more docile humanity. Our forebears who possessed far more capacities than the humans in the Atlantean times, and the Atlanteans possessed far more capacities than we.



The present epoch, ended with the moon programme and nuclear weapons. This resulted in the assassination of JFK and the engineered demise of the the present global culture through alien intervention.



The next try to maintain the 'people farm' for the benefit of the allied races who defeated us, and depend on technology our ancestors built, will be to remove from the human experience the sexual and familial impulses from every day human existence. These will be reserved for the leaders who operate on the alien's behalf here on Earth. Just as the joys and experiences of the Atlanteans are reserved for a select few today.



Anyway, that's the story I'm working on.

ETs would want as much from exploiting Earth as we'd want to do with exploiting some other viable Eden/Goldilocks planet, planetoid or moon.

If Earth and its biodiversity is owned, then we have very little say in its destiny.

On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:08:27 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, March 25, 2014 9:30:18 AM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:

On Monday, March 24, 2014 9:41:49 PM UTC-7, wrote:



Aliens among us















Previously I gave pointers to Charles Fort who concluded after referring to events of the 1800s that humanity is owned by something the same way a school of fish is owned by a human who owns the land on which the pond is located. From time to time the owners come to have a bit of relaxation and sport and go fishing.















Fort explains the reason UFOs don't make contact with the President or the Queen for the same reason we don't make contact with a rooster and ask his leave before taking eggs. As proud and powerful as a rooster may feel in the morning walking through the hen house, it matters not to the farmer, or the bank that owns the note on the farm, or the traders that trade the note on the farm on which the hen, or the school of fish are located.























If true, this is very disturbing.















Here is what is going on today, according to some;















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJXAGrcN-E







I've followed this kind of stuff since mid/late 1950s.







ETs shouldn't have any problems with their exploiting us, just like us as terrestrial humanoids exploiting whatever a mostly frozen to death planet like Mars has to offer, or way better yet would be the failsafe innards of our moon and eventually accomplishing Venus shouldn't be so insurmountable.







Would ETs as our owners want us doing off-world stuff? (probably not)







Could ETs toy with us and even abduct an entire 777-200?







Our solar system is relatively new, and even more recent nearby stars with their planets have come and gone within the 4.5 billion years of whatever our cosmic existence has had to offer. It would be foolish to think we're alone and unique as to having evolved by way of only terrestrial means.



I am wondering what we would have that an alien would need. Assuming the reports in the previous video are accurate, there are only a few things that make sense to me;



(1) They are the products of a terrestrial break-away civilization currently unknown to us, which have evolved along with us throughout history,



(2) They are products of extra-terrestrial civilizations making use of uniquely human biology to bypass biometric locks on ancient human technologies,



In the first instance, they have a long-standing organic relationship to humanity and have evolved along with humanity. In the second instance, they have a continuing need of human biology and perhaps psychology, to maintain access to ancient human technology.



Any reasoning that doesn't involve either one or both of these points doesn't hold water. There is nothing about us, or about the Earth that makes continuing contact necessary.



haha - I'm working on a sci-fi novel I call 'People Farm:Up from the Sky'..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aPcogx0MPw



As you know, you can't believe everything you see and hear

- Jimi Hendrix



This is a story about about a woman that explores possibility #2 above. A Linda Moulton Howe character that explores human mutiliation and discovers that humanity is an engineered species, derived from an earlier species that was the first to master intergalactic travel aeons ago, and has left behind them, a cosmic mechanism.



This mechanism safeguarded by biometric locks, requires functioning humans to access it. It is to bypass these locks that the remnants of the defeated world were combed by the combined alien races who worked against our anscestors. Their goal, to produce a milder, human off spring to operate the cosmic mechanism on their behalf. Since all now depend upon this bit of human ingenuity to maintain cosmic commerce.



In this novel, the ancient Atlantean myths are true. But the Atlanteans were not our original ancestors. They were an engineered culture, that was only a distant echo of the true human culture that came before well before it. Atlanteans were only the penultimate incarnation of an attempt to make a more docile humanity. Our forebears who possessed far more capacities than the humans in the Atlantean times, and the Atlanteans possessed far more capacities than we.



The present epoch, ended with the moon programme and nuclear weapons. This resulted in the assassination of JFK and the engineered demise of the the present global culture through alien intervention.



The next try to maintain the 'people farm' for the benefit of the allied races who defeated us, and depend on technology our ancestors built, will be to remove from the human experience the sexual and familial impulses from every day human existence. These will be reserved for the leaders who operate on the alien's behalf here on Earth. Just as the joys and experiences of the Atlanteans are reserved for a select few today.



Anyway, that's the story I'm working on.

Rather than say that its just "aliens" who have us surrounded, why not admit that humanity has been helped more by aliens that look more like us than not? There doesn't seem to be any reason why people can't change for the better, as long as there is the possibility of trade taking place between solar systems (w.r.t. planetary experience), and so those who, at least look like us, probably would live in a similar environment, if not better environment, than the earth offers.

Of course it is conjecture to say that Pleiadeans come from a better 'wilderness' than Earthlings do, but my guess is that since Pleiadeans are supposedly more advanced than Earthlings, their wilderness has probably become much more depreciated than Earth's, which is why they're probably interested in extracting some of our natural resources - but aren't doing so, as they probably have mastered extracting whatever they want from other planetary systems, including the asteroids. There is probably no doubt that there has been exchanges going on - their knowledge of microelectronics and spaceflight - for our lending the earth to them as a sort of rest stop or rendezvous on the way to neighboring star systems, or other planets. The following is what can be gleaned from waybackmachine.org:

"Pleiadean influence has been a prominent factor in the creation of many products. Here is the description of a product that stands out probably more than any. It has proven itself as a tremendous device for protection of human life and healing powers and the first time it was utilized as a life-and-death experience.

As early as the 1950s, scientists at Sony and General Electric produced the first transistors, which are responsible for today's computer industry.

Tracing an original patent on the transistor is almost impossible. Motorola in Phoenix, AZ received information for a semiconductor development from a Pleiadean contactee located in central Mexico in the mid-1980s. Nikola Tesla often admitted his ideas came from an Extraterestrial source. IBM's founder, John Carter Sr. states his original information, concerning his computers, originated from ET's in a series of dreams. Ideas often found at the Lockheed skunk works originated from reverse engineering from spaceships collected at places like Roswell. New Mexico Aztec, NM and Laredo, TX just to name a few. At Dreamland in Area 51, the Groom Lake group, also are well known for the use of reverse Extraterrestrial technologies. Some of the technologies that we would know today involved advanced electromagnetic technologies, optical fiber technologies, and vehicle lifting systems, tunnel diode systems, mossfets, and many other technological advances especially in the field of miniature micronization.

Fred Hart and Thomas Colson, founders of the National Health Federation, established legal precedents for freedom of health choices, the legalization of over-the-counter vitamin sales, also had ET contacts.

Hart and Colson's amazing device, the Dipolar-ray was very successful in the treatment of advanced stages of arthritis. When brought into the marketplace, the FDA forced it off the market. Out of protest and in keeping with our constitutional freedoms, Colson and Hart founded what today is known as the National Health Federation. There was an X-1 healing machine, referred to in Dr. Fred Bell's book Rays of Truth - Crystals of Light, found its roots in the Dipolar-ray machine.

Semjase, Dr. Fred Bell's Pleiadean contact source, decided to involve some other human beings in the employment of new Pleiadean based technological products. Thus was the birth of the machine now known as the Flame Thrower. Semjase directed Dr. Fred Bell to bring his wife Frauke and two clients; Ann Rainbow and her husband Ken for a hands on demonstration. The area chosen for this encounter was Dolce, NM on the reservation of the Jicarilla Apache Indians. This at the time was a well-known area where extreme caution had to be exercised in order to not be abducted by an Extraterrestrial group of aliens that originated in Theta Reticuli III, a star system 38 light years from our earth.

The local Jicarilla Indian teenagers like to party and have fun on the weekends, especially at night, as do most teenagers in all civilizations. However these children stayed very close to the central village, because to stray out into the countryside meant certain danger of a permanent abduction. Because the Jiccara reservation is considered an Alien Nation, our law-enforcement will not look for or consider missing Indians.

The "Firestarr Orb" was placed in the back of a pickup truck, and two witnesses sat in the front seat. The alien "Semjase" instructed them to park in a remote riverbed, located ten miles outside the village. They were instructed telepathically, to wait exactly 14 minutes, and a gray space ship would charge our position. Everyone was thusly forewarned. After exactly 14 minutes a 21-foot in diameter space ship containing Grays, flew directly at the windshield of the pickup truck. The device in the rear, the Firestarr Orb, started to glow and emanate high frequency energy. Everyone could feel the tremendous psychic fear that came from the occupants of the space ship. At about 50 feet directly in front of the truck, the ship changed colors and quickly maneuvered 180 degrees and disappeared from sight. Needless to say everyone inside was relieved, as none of the others have ever had a close encounter this close, nor this dangerous. Here is a picture of the so-called "Firestarr Orb", along with smaller versions, which could probably also be renamed a "Gray Repulser":

http://web.archive.org/web/201203072...rypics/034.jpg
Irradiator in operating system. Note virtual field distortion occurring at base of irradiator. Choke in centre of irradiator:
http://web.archive.org/web/201203072...rypics/040.jpg
Quad system, full light output. Notice vortex time phase shift:
http://web.archive.org/web/201203072...rypics/060.jpg
Microstarr and laser in carrying case:
http://web.archive.org/web/201203082...s/IMG_1281.JPG
Micro starr at low power:
http://web.archive.org/web/201203082...s/IMG_1291.JPG
Microstarr going into violet phase:
http://web.archive.org/web/201203081...s/IMG_1295.JPG

Since then, the "Firestar Orb" has had major development and many components have been added to it. It functions as an anti-ELF device, a healing device, and a communicative device. It looks somewhat like a decorated orb."

The above systems are no longer available directly from Pyradyne, but they can probably be special ordered for under $1,000 each.

"The Firestarr Orb is composed of electronic components and special crystals that come from vortexes located all over the world. It is about 3 1/2 feet across by about 3 1/2 feet, or in other words an x-shaped device. Depending on the application, one of these devices is used in a singular manner, or a combination of four of them is used simultaneously. When used in this fashion, one of them is based in the North and the others are faced East, South and West respectively. When they are used in a quad like manner the vortex stones are color-coded. The Firestarr Orb that is positioned towards the North is primarily made of red jewel like material from vortexes on the earth that primarily produces red colored gemstones. The Firestarr Orb that faces the East is primarily made of stones and gems that are green in color.. The Firestarr Orb that faces the South is always made with black gems and rocks. Black is used because it absorbs negative energy. When using this device for healing purposes the black is always faced towards the bottom of a person being treated, and usually at their feet. The red Firestarr Orb is then directed towards the head. The Firestarr Orb facing the West is usually blue in color. Blue relates to the heart or thymus gland and green corresponds to the thyroid area, which is the energy gateway between the head and body. Of course we use many other custom colors depending on the individual's requirements. Oftentimes these devices are customized strictly to not only the individual but also the environment."

http://www.pyradyne.com/product-cate...adyne-systems/

IMO humanity must learn to escape being "trapped in the circuit" of its own behavioral environment. This is due to humanity's constant dependency on microelectronics - not only for communication, but also for its food, shelter, clothing, transportation, water supply, electricity, gasoline, and maintenance. This is because microelectronics has become such an integral part of the human's daily life, that without it, the human could not survive its own wilderness. The Pleiadeans must know that this is the way a society becomes doomed - when all of society becomes dependent upon a centralized government, and the complexity of the power structure scales with the availability of the microcircuit, then the society becomes trapped in its own design, forever in the process of being and becoming singular electrons, which are forever circulating around the loops of its circuitry, and without any regard to the effects of the surrounding environment:

http://zeropoint.dreamstation.com/Nazi_POW_and_Chip.htm

IMO humanity must learn to protect the wholistic environment of its local organizational structure, and become decentralized from the power structure that causes the inhabitants to become environmentally and locally sterile, while that power structure increases its dependency on the 'prison warden economy' we call Earth. There are ways of achieving this, without disassembling the grid that is already in place, but recognizing how the grid itself has become dependent not upon the number of electrons which are circulating through the microelectronics, but how the creative, advertising, and individual's community 'worth' aspect becomes appreciated throughout the entire system:

http://zeropoint.dreamstation.com/Ed...Nano_Money.htm

With the electron still trapped in endless circulation within the microchip, the humming of the machine of socialism may became a mass media hypnotism into a psychosis of perpetual lying. A huge hoodwink has been perpetrated on western scientists and engineers (to keep us all in the dark). This took place in the late nineteenth century when Maxwell's original electromagnetic theory was first inadvertantly doctored by two British physicists, and then dismembered by a third quite famous physicist - working under the direction of a major US financial interest. The result is that Maxwell's original science and the later work of Nikola Tesla were removed from the purview of western scientists and electrical engineers.

We thus lost the capacity to unify physics, and were unable to develop technology, for example, to harness clean energy from SpaceTime or to engineer Superluminal (faster than the speed of light) Propulsion, among many other things.

Scalar Energy Physics, which is fundamental to technologies such as this, is now only starting to emerge in some areas of our western science. Knowledge of these things has of course existed for many decades elsewhere on the planet ...

This ignores human mutilation. Interstellar commerce requires a Kardashev 2 (K2) civilization or better. There's nothing Earth's Kardashev 0 (K0) civilization could offer a K2 civilization. Not one damn thing. While we're well suited for this environment, visitors would not be. They would have to engineer it to their liking. A K2 is better off mining the Sun or other stars and building whatever world they like best using self-replicating machinery.

This is why the so-far anecdotal reports of alien human contact, don't make sense, except under the two scenarios given previously;

(1) They are the products of a terrestrial break-away civilization currently unknown to us, which have evolved along with us throughout history,

(2) They are products of extra-terrestrial civilizations making use of uniquely human biology to bypass biometric locks on ancient human technologies,

In the first instance, they have a long-standing organic relationship to humanity and have evolved along with humanity. In the second instance, they have a continuing need of human biology and perhaps psychology, to maintain access to ancient human technology.

Any reasoning that doesn't involve either one or both of these points doesn't hold water. There is nothing about us, or about the Earth that makes continuing contact necessary.

The human mutilation reports

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdJXAGrcN-E

remind me of the way wasp larvae and spider larvae eat out their host. They're evolved to avoid key nerves and critical organs so that the larvae don't kill they're host. They are quite surgical in the way they proceed.

There are also worms that are evolved with such skill that they can attach to a host and suck their blood, without the host even knowing they're present.

Could a super-human intelligence, naturally evolved on the Earth operate as a parasite to humanity and be totally unknown to humanity?

When I consider the way fungi work, as individual cells when penetrating the body of their host, but then coordinate activity within their host to create what amounts to a parasitic organism once established within the host. I wonder if super-human intelligence is possible with this sort of parasitic mechanism.

Consider the hallucinogenic capabilities of magic mushrooms. These are fungi. Now, consider the potential of a coordinated fungus that has evolved a little more completely than the sorts of creatures described above.

I can imagine one type of fungus that inhabits the body of a human and makes connections that allow that human to operate at a super human intellectual level. I can imagine such humans infected with this parasite recognizing one another and working together to benefit themselves at the expense of uninfected humans.

I can also imagine a fungus taking on a form, becoming mobile, and then shaping itself to adapt to making use of its chosen host. This sort of organism would absorb the human, excising the parts it found useful, the excreting the rest.

Anyone familiar with an electric eel, or with microbial fuel cells, knows that substantial electrical power can be produced by an organism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_eel

Eels not only use electricity to kill their prey and for defence, producing 500 watts of power at 1 ampere and 500 volts, they also use electricity to electrolocate their prey and map their surroundings, being able to send 25 volt signals in the hundreds of hertz in the microamp range.

There are also animals like Cuttlefish, that can blend in with their surroundings and sneak up on its prey;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqMNjUp6UeA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-zodF-XrSE

Using a technology very similar to this, to render itself invisible;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiuuRXG6z0E

So, to explain human mutilation one can imagine a prey that feeds on human blood (hence the absolute lack of blood at the scene) and makes use of the mentation, or mental processes of its victim to help understand its victim, and perhaps inherit some of the properties of its victim. Hence, it may have evolved to take only those organs that support the brain of its victim and its function for the benefit of the predator.

If birds didn't exist on Earth, could we believe such creatures were possible? Can there exist a predator so clever and so capable that we to this day are unaware of their existence?

So, if aircraft were developed on a world that didn't have birds, would the people who built them imagine birds to be possible under different circumstances?

Now, we have built high-voltage lifters that make use of the electrical properties of air to lift tiny air craft with high voltages.

Imagine a cuttlefish type flying animal that used that sort of lifting process to fly, dive into the water, electrolocate, electrocute and stun prey, combined with chromophoric skin to maintain invisibility, and feeding and mating habits that allowed it to absorb the mentality of its prey and even mimic its prey or infect its prey to change its behaviour to make its job easier.

haha - I mentioned that I am writing a story - Up From the Skies - wherein the secret of aliens on Earth are revealed. That's volume 1. Volume 2 explores this aspect. The terrestrial aspect. And in fact, the way the aliens were able to defeat humanity (according to the story line) was that they disrupted the balanced give and take between humanity and this parasite radically reducing the capacity of the combination. In the first story the conquerors of ancient man reduced us radically from what we once were and are planning the end of sexuality and individuality as we now know it, substituting cybernetic processes - and reserving sex and family for the select few who control the rest. The goal of the aliens in this instance is to maintain and expand access to an ancient cosmic mechanism built by early humanity, and eventually rid themselves of the need for humans altogether.

On Monday, March 24, 2014 4:07:45 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, March 24, 2014 1:55:43 PM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:

On 3/24/2014 10:39 AM, Hägar wrote:



Brad Guth formulated on Monday :



On Sunday, March 23, 2014 4:29:46 PM UTC-7, Hägar wrote:



"Brad Guth" wrote in message



...















On Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:02:55 PM UTC-7,



wrote:







I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on



our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is



impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite



a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star.



Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of



thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational



ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget



children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or



perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it.



They could travel in radio waves etc.















What if they used an icy planetoid of 7.5e22 kg to get here?























***Why, pray tell, oh all knowing doofus, is 7.5e22kg of any



significance



???







Did you weigh it on your bathroom scale, or did BeertBrain supply you



with one of his magical concave/convex theory based shortcuts ??







7.5e22 kg is just an honest swag at suggesting what an icy Selene



could have amounted to (could have been worth 8e22 kg), as of prior to



its glancing blow that gave our planet its Arctic ocean basin and our



seasonal tilt and a good amount of new water.















***An honest swag ??? You are indeed one pompous moron, GuthBall.







First off, posting the mass of extraterrestrial bodies in



Kilograms (kg)is tantamount to listing your age in days.







But here is the real idiocy in your statement of the Icy Orb of



7.5e22 kg, which, according to you, is not that much different



than 8e22 kg.







So I'll make it really simple, for a simpleton like you:



Instead of your pulled out of your ass numbers, lets use something



a little more realistic and down to Earth:







7.5e5 = 23,730



8e5 = 32,768, which is 38% more than 23,730







I can see now why Hillary used the term "what difference does it make".



You Liberals are all idiots cast from the same mold ... neither math



nor reality can be defined as your dominant traits ... a spot that,



at least in your case, is reserved for utter stupidity.







So, how much ice should any rogue planetoid accumulate?







At 2.03 g/cm3, do tell us how much of Pluto is ice?







At 2 g/cm3, do tell us how much of Sedna is ice?







At 1.88 g/cm3, do tell us how much of Titan is ice?







Do you need more examples of icy stuff?



7.5e+22 kg is quite a bit of ice!



Guth Mass: 7.500e+22 kg



Ceres Mass: 0.895e+22 kg

Saturn Ring Mass: 0.003e+22 kg

Mimas Mass: 0.00375e22 kg

Earth Mass: 597.219e+22 kg

Ocean mass: 0.1400e22 kg

Lunar Mass: 7.3476e22 kg



Mimas and Saturn's rings are nearly all water ice. The density of Mimas is 1,148 kg per cubic meter. This higher density is due to the fact that self-gravitation compresses the ice. The diameter of Mimas is 396.4 km.



A 7.5e22 kg mass of ice compressed to a density of 1,148 kg/m3 occupies a volume of 6.533e19 m3.



Now a sphere has a volume of



V = pi()/6 * D^3 -- (V*6/pi())^(1/3) = D



D = (6.533e19*6/pi())^(1/3) = 4,996,971.8 m = 4997 km diameter



This is 0.3925 times the diameter of the Earth, and 0.01256 the mass of the Earth.



Quite sizeable!



Its surface gravity is;



g = GM/r^2 = 0.01256 / 0.3925^2 = 0.0812 gee.





A little less than the gravity of the moon, since its mass is about the same as the moon, and its density is less than that of the moon.



The Guth ice body contains 8.33e21 kg of hydrogen. A proton-proton chain reaction releases 26.73 MeV for four protons to produce a Helium nuclei. That's 4.282e-12 Joules for four times 1.672e-27 kg (the mass of a proton). This is a specific energy of 2.561e+15 Joules per kg of hydrogen. A total energy of 2.134e+37 Joules. Applied to the hydrogen contained in the entire body of the ice ball this is a specific energy of 2.846e14 Joules/kg. This implies an exhaust speed of 23,856 km/sec!



Now draw a line from the centre of the sphere, to a point on its surface, and call this the direction of travel. A 2000 metric ton cabin, resting on the surface at this point houses 200 persons, at this point. The hemisphere opposite this point is covered with machinery that fabricates fusion pulse units from ice, digging into the body of the moon, and ejecting it at 23,856 km/sec. These automated and remotely controlled pusher plate swarms amount to 0.3% of the mass of the entire body. Approximately, 2.25e20 kg mass. This is a propellant fraction of 99.7% - and plugging this into the rocket equation;



Vf = Ve*LN(1/(1-u)) = 23856*LN(1/(1-.997))=138,582.9 km/sec



This is about 46.2% light speed. A two boost one way trip to a star can occur at 23.1% light speed. A four boost two way trip to a star and back, can occur at 11.7% light speed.



Boosting at 1/4 gee takes a year to get to 23.1% light speed, boosting 1/8th gee takes a year to get to 11.7% light speed. It takes 19 years to get to alpha-centauri at the higher speeds, 37 years at the lower speeds. 21 years and 39 years when boost times are added - for one way trip. 42 years and 78 years respectively for round trips.



As mentioned previously, it suspended animation is a solved problem.



The same fusion powered pulse unit swarm that makes this ice ball into a propellant tank for a fusion powered star ship, also provides the means to assemble such a ball in the first place from ice found throughout the solar system! This amount of ice would just about clean out the solar system of ice.



Now, mining the sun is a different story.



the sun has 5,920 oxygen atoms for every million atoms. The sun masses 1..99e30 kg. Oxygen is 16 amu. This means that 4.98% of the mass of the sun is oxygen. Taking 1/8th this amount from the hydrogen ups this to 5.60%



So, if we wished to mine the Sun, we could extract 5.6% of the sun's 1.99e30 kg in the form of water. That's 1.114e29 kg. That's enough to make 1,485,166 of the ice moons described above, after ejecting the oxygen and hydrogen, causing it to react, and then letting it cool into snow, far from the Sun, and packing it into a large 4,997 km diameter ball.



Of course with self-replicating systems, and the ability to mine stars, we could do one way flights, in the knowledge we could extract more ice from the target star once you got there, knowing its oxygen content, and hydrogen content.



Obviously, since we know how to make positronium with laser energy and we know how to convert sunlight to laser energy, and we know how to store positronium as a superfluid at the same density as iron - it makes more sense to collect solar energy, convert it to positronium, and store it rather than use nuclear fusion and water ice.



How big would a comparable star ship built around positronium rockets be?



Well, a 2000 tonne payload and a structure fraction of 20% with a final delta vee of 46.1% light speed we can use the relativistic rocket equation



dV/c = tanh( ln( 1/(1-u) ) )



to see that we need 39.261% propellant fraction, leaving 40.739% payload fraction, implying 1,927.42 tonnes of positronium and a structural mass of 981.85 tonnes for a 2,000 tonne payload.



At 8 tonnes per cubic meter, the positronium is contained in a sphere occupying 240.93 cubic meters, thus having a diameter of 7.72 meters.



So, the 2,000 tonne cabin, with a 981.85 tonne inert mass positronium fueled booster with a tank 7.72 meters in diameter containing 1,927.42 kg of positronium, replaces the 4,997 kilometer ball of ice coated over half its surface swarms of fusion pulse pushers!



Yet both systems have the same capabilities!



Mining the entire body of the sun for oxygen and ejecting all that oxygen, with some hydrogen to produce 1.4 million Guth sized ice moons, is all we can do around here. Taking nearly all the water in the solar system builds one!



Coating the surface of the Sun with self replicating solar collectors to capture solar energy and convert it to antimatter, while taking care to radiate sunlight to all the bodies where the sun is visible, at the same intensity and colour it now strikes them, and create the cabin, tank and booster with metals extracted from the Sun.



The sun produces 3.868e26 Watts of power. This produces no more than 4.3e9 kg of positronium per second. Thus the Sun can produce 2,229.7 systems like this per second. That's 70.36 billion per year. At 200 persons per cabin, you can see we could clear the Earth of all persons in a few weeks if we desired it.



Successfully mining the Sun also means we could make do at any star we stopped at, building whatever we liked in that star system using the materials and energy of the star itself.



So, while a ball of ice the size Guth imagines is certainly capable of carrying out fusion powered interstellar missions, present technologies involving anti-matter can do substantially better, and make us a star faring species.



http://prisonplanet.com/articles/feb...nti-matter.htm



http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct...922401, d.aGc


https://www.physics.wisc.edu/vod/2011/11/18.html

The innards of an icy moon, utilized as an interstellar trek capable habitat, would be as failsafe and cozy as it gets.

Even as surface protected by a km of only slightly compacted icy crystals would provide habitats as sufficiently warmed by the core energy of our moon.. However, once easily tunneled a few km into its paramagnetic bedrock of 3.5 g/cm density, it also becomes asteroid impact proof, not to mention the spoils of TBMs yielding scads of minerals and raw elements to do whatever with.

Just for the fun of it:
Figure a volume of 10 km worth of surface ice = 3.8e13 x 1e4 = 3.8e17 m3

Figure its average compacted density at 10% = 3.8e16 tonnes worth of water as offering one hell of a fine radiation shield, as well as a terrific layer of thermal insulation that could be easily lived under.

The same physical processes that gives rise to life on Earth operates throughout the cosmos.

The Miller-Urey experiment simulated the conditions present on the early Earth, and tested for the occurrence of chemical origins of life.

Specifically, the experiment tested Alexander Oparin's and J. B. S. Haldane's hypothesis that conditions on the primitive Earth favored chemical reactions that synthesized more complex organic compounds from simpler organic precursors.

This classic experiment proved experimentally abiogenesis could occur. It was conducted in 1953 by Stanley Miller and Harold Urey at the University of Chicago and repeated at the University of California, San Diego confirming the original results and published in 1954

After Miller's death in 2007, scientists examining sealed vials preserved from the original experiments. There were more amino acids than originally reported. Over 20 different amino acids were produced in Miller's original experiments and more than the 20 that naturally occur in life.

A more accurate representation of the Earth's original atmosphere that included carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrogen (N2), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), and sulfur dioxide (SO2) from volcanoes have produced more diverse molecules still!

On Thursday, March 27, 2014 7:02:57 PM UTC-7, wrote:
The same physical processes that gives rise to life on Earth operates throughout the cosmos.



The Miller-Urey experiment simulated the conditions present on the early Earth, and tested for the occurrence of chemical origins of life.



Specifically, the experiment tested Alexander Oparin's and J. B. S. Haldane's hypothesis that conditions on the primitive Earth favored chemical reactions that synthesized more complex organic compounds from simpler organic precursors.



This classic experiment proved experimentally abiogenesis could occur. It was conducted in 1953 by Stanley Miller and Harold Urey at the University of Chicago and repeated at the University of California, San Diego confirming the original results and published in 1954



After Miller's death in 2007, scientists examining sealed vials preserved from the original experiments. There were more amino acids than originally reported. Over 20 different amino acids were produced in Miller's original experiments and more than the 20 that naturally occur in life.



A more accurate representation of the Earth's original atmosphere that included carbon dioxide (CO2), nitrogen (N2), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), and sulfur dioxide (SO2) from volcanoes have produced more diverse molecules still!

And likely an atmospheric pressure of 100+ bar, at least up until our planet got smacked by an icy Selene of 7.5e22 kg.

God.

First proposed in 1964 by the Soviet astronomer Nikolai Kardashev is the Kardashev scale.

The Kardashev scale measures a civilization's level of technological advancement, based on the amount of energy it uses.

The scale has three designated categories called Type I, II, and III.

A Type I civilization uses all available resources impinging on its home planet.

Type II harnesses all the energy of its star.

A Type III of its galaxy.

Various extensions of the scale have been proposed adding types 0, IV and V..

Others have proposed different measures other than power.

Michio Kaku suggested that humans may attain Type I status in 100-200 years, Type II status in a few thousand years, and Type III status in 100,000 to a million years.

A type III civilization would be indistinguishable from God, and as Arthur Clarke pointed out, their technology indistinguishable from magic. Its one of his three laws;

Clarke's Three Laws are three laws of prediction. They a

When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.

The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.


Carl Sagan suggested defining intermediate values by interpolating and extrapolating the values given above for types and noting;

I (1e16 W),
II (1e26 W) and
III (1e36 W),

which produces the formula

K = ((log(P) / log(10))-6)/10

Check

K = ((log(1e16)/log(10))-6)/10
= (16-6)/10 = 1


where value K is a civilization's Kardashev rating and P is the power it uses, in watts. Using this extrapolation, a "Type 0" civilization, not defined by Kardashev, would control about 1 MW of power, and humanity's civilization type as of 1973 was about 0.7 (apparently using 10 terawatt (TW) as the value for 1970s humanity).

In 2008, total world energy consumption was 474 exajoules (474×1018 J=132,000 TWh), equivalent to an average power consumption of 15 TW (or 0.717 on Sagan's Kardashev scale).

Large-scale application of fusion power. According to mass-energy equivalence,

Type I implies the conversion of about 2 kg of matter to energy per second. An equivalent energy release could theoretically be achieved by fusing approximately 280 kg of hydrogen into helium per second, a rate roughly equivalent to 8.9e9 kg/year.

A cubic km of water contains about 1e11 kg of hydrogen, and the Earth's oceans contain about 1.3e9 cubic km of water, meaning that this rate of consumption could be sustained over geological time scales.

On Thursday, March 27, 2014 9:17:17 AM UTC-7, Brad Guth wrote:

The innards of an icy moon, utilized as an interstellar trek capable habitat, would be as failsafe and cozy as it gets.


Even as surface protected by a km depth of only slightly compacted icy crystals would provide habitats as sufficiently warmed by the core energy of our moon. However, once easily tunneled a few km into its paramagnetic bedrock of 3.5 g/cm density, it also becomes asteroid impact proof, not to mention the spoils of TBMs yielding scads of minerals and raw elements to do whatever with.


Just for the fun of it:
Figure a volume depth of 10 km worth of surface ice = 3.8e13 x 1e4 = 3.8e17 m3


Figure its average compacted density at 10% = 3.8e16 tonnes worth of water as offering one hell of a fine radiation shield, as well as a terrific layer of thermal insulation that could be easily lived under.

Not quite sure why so much is wrong with the Google Groups version of editing these Usenet/newsgroup forums.

Basically, our moon as an icy interstellar craft would do quite nicely for those having seeded our planet that seems to be falling apart on us.

Environmental and biodiversity tipping points have been passed, and the only ones not the least bit concerned are the oligarchs, Bilderbergs, Rothschilds and of course their mostly public-funded and ratepayer-funded armies of brown-nosed clowns, minions and FUD-masters (many of which can be found right here in Usenet/newsgroups).