Aliens among us

I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:02:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.

What if they used an icy planetoid of 7.5e22 kg to get here?

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:06:49 PM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:
On Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:02:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:

I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.



What if they used an icy planetoid of 7.5e22 kg to get here?

I don't know. I'm a machinist not a scientist although I have a healthy interest in all things in all things astronomical.

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 9:03:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:06:49 PM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:02:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:



I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.







What if they used an icy planetoid of 7.5e22 kg to get here?



I don't know. I'm a machinist not a scientist although I have a healthy interest in all things in all things astronomical.

Time dilation occurs at high speeds according to Lorentz dilation

t' = t * SQRT( 1 - (v/c)^2 )


It takes one year at one gee to approach the speed of light. You can go anywhere in the cosmos in 40 years at one gee.

So, if energy is no problem, you can go anywhere in the cosmos in a human life time.

Suspended animation is a solved problem.

http://labs.fhcrc.org/roth/

So, we can freeze someone for up to 40 years, and thaw them out at the destination.

So, its possible to send someone anywhere in the cosmos.

Of course, hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of years pass on Earth for such travelers, so they arrive back at Earth in the distant future.

But, time travel is possible.

http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract...hysRevD.9.2203

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics...me-Travel.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHC8z6ULs18

Particularly inside the ergosphere of super-massive black holes.

http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=v...ge&q&f=fal se

And a super-massive black hole exists at the centre of the Milky Way Galaxy.. Its called Sagittarius A*. Its 2 million times as massive as the Sun and its ergosphere is the size of the orbit of Mercury.

So, if we have travel from Earth which is 30,000 light years from Sag A*, to another star near Earth, which is about 30,000 light years from Sag A* - and we realize we don't have to slow down at Sag A* if we orbit around the ergosphere, so as to travel through time - emerging say 60,000 years before we arrive, so that we arrive at the moment we left at our destination. (Of course we could arrange to arrive back at Earth *before* we leave, giving us the ability to travel in time, by choosing the right trajectory around Sag A*). Our time on board is given by


http://spacetravel.nathangeffen.webf...pacetravel.php


It would take 21.39 years ship time, and 60,001.94 years star time, and so, the path through the ergosphere would require this sort of negative time delay so that the ship arrives at its destination in the right star time.

Now the only problem we have is the fact that it takes a helluva lot of energy to send a ship on a journey like this.

2,000,000 kg ship - 2000 tonnes - enough to carry 200 people through deep space - at 10 tonnes per person, requires 1.112e28 Joules of energy.

Now, stars produce a lot of energy. The Sun for example produces 3.868e26 Joules per second. So, it would take 28.8 seconds of the Sun's entire output spaced over 60,001.94 years or 1 part in 65.76 billion of the Sun's output to project a 2,000 tonne scout ship on this Journey.


That's a solar collector, operating near the solar surface only 12 km in diameter. This produces a laser beam with 250 nm wavelength, and it beams that laser energy to a satellite 700 AU away. A 12 km diameter emitter produces a 3 km diameter spot at 700 AU. That beam is then bounced back around the sun, using the Sun's gravity field as a collimator, to beam that energy up to 30,000 km away. This 10 billion km wide aperture, combined with a 250 nm wavelength, produces a spot at 30,00 light years that's 8.7 meters in diameter!

http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=29341

Now, not only can the ship travel through time within the ergosphere, it can also use the Penrose Process to extract massenergy from the black hole itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_me...enrose_process

In this way, engineers can craft systems that create arrays of microscopic black holes within the spacecraft as it passes through Sag A* ergosphere.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole

Microscopic black holes are used to store massenergy, and then emit that energy under controlled conditions in the form of collimated neutrino beams to produce a sort of neutrino rocket with immense mass ratios.

In this way sufficient massenergy is extracted en-route to fly to the destination, stop, and return to Sag A*- recharge - and return to Earth, with sufficient propellant to repeat another flight to another star, without the UV laser which is merely used to set off each spacecraft on its initial journey. Even this can be dispensed with if the first ship returns with enough microscopic black hole arrays to fuel another ship, increasing to any size in an instant since time is at the disposal of those controlling this technology.

So, this - in broad strokes - describes how interstellar voyaging can take place within the confines of what we know, and what we know how to do.

If these sorts of things are ever reduced to practice, then it is likely that we have folks from the future with us today.


What about aliens?

Well, aliens definitely exist according to the Drake Equation.

n = R* x Fp x Fl x Fi x Ft x L

So, n is the number of ETI. R* is the rate of star formation. Fp are the fraction of stars with planets. Fl is the fraction of stars with life. Fi is the fraction of stars with intelligence. Ft is the fraction of intelligences with technology. L is the life span of that technology.

The easiest way to understand this equation is to consider a light bulb factory. R is the rate of light bulb production - say 1000 an hour. F is the fraction of bulbs of this type - say red and say that's 10%. L is how long the bulb lasts. Say 2,000 hours. So we can see that there are 200,000 red bulbs in the world from this factory.

Now the rate of star formation is 6, Fp=1, Fl=0.9, Fi=?, Ft=0.01, L=?

Now, it took half the age of the Earth for multi-celled life to appear. Then it took most of the rest of the age of the Earth for brains to appear. Then it took lots of different types of humanoid species (Neanderthal, etc.) before technology appears. This means that multi-celled life is rare. Brains are rare. One chance in 34 billion in a given year, becomes 50% chance in 2 billion years, a near certainty in 4 billion years. Intelligence takes brains, and that means multi-celled life, so if that's the same level of difficulty, it has the same lag, but still becomes certain after 2 to 4 billions of years. Still in a given year, we only have one chance in a billion or less, and together this is one chance in a quintillion. So, if technical civilizations last only say 1 million years or less, then we have only 1 star in a hundred billion or so, that's alive at any one time.

Life is rare on the scale of galaxies.

But common on the scale of the cosmos, since there are hundreds of billions of galaxies around.

Also, with time travel, you have parallel realities as well. Providing the many worlds hypothesis is correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_worlds_interpretation

The direction of time is given by the past being simple and the future being complex. That is, like a tree growing from its roots to it branches, every time something can happen, it does happen, in all ways its possible to happen, and all those branches exist in some fashion. So, think of a squirrel running up a try. He looks back and sees the path he followed. He looks forward and sees all the paths he could follow. This gives a unique character to his progress. It also describes us moving through time.

Now, if a squirrel turns around and travels back down the tree, he can choose another route. If other squirrels are running along beside him, they can come back and report other branches.

So, there are four types of visitors possible with this technology described above;

(1) future humans,
(2) future para-humans (terrestrial life forms)
(3) aliens,
(4) para-aliens (ET life forms)

Now, while life is rare in the galaxy, and common in the cosmos, it is even more populous in the para-cosmos (or what physicists call the multi-verse)

Are aliens here?

I have no idea.

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 2:27:49 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, March 22, 2014 9:03:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:06:49 PM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:



On Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:02:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:







I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.















What if they used an icy planetoid of 7.5e22 kg to get here?







I don't know. I'm a machinist not a scientist although I have a healthy interest in all things in all things astronomical.



Time dilation occurs at high speeds according to Lorentz dilation



t' = t * SQRT( 1 - (v/c)^2 )





It takes one year at one gee to approach the speed of light. You can go anywhere in the cosmos in 40 years at one gee.



So, if energy is no problem, you can go anywhere in the cosmos in a human life time.



Suspended animation is a solved problem.



http://labs.fhcrc.org/roth/



So, we can freeze someone for up to 40 years, and thaw them out at the destination.



So, its possible to send someone anywhere in the cosmos.



Of course, hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of years pass on Earth for such travelers, so they arrive back at Earth in the distant future.



But, time travel is possible.



http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract...hysRevD.9.2203



http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics...me-Travel.html



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHC8z6ULs18



Particularly inside the ergosphere of super-massive black holes.



http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=v...ge&q&f=fal se



And a super-massive black hole exists at the centre of the Milky Way Galaxy. Its called Sagittarius A*. Its 2 million times as massive as the Sun and its ergosphere is the size of the orbit of Mercury.



So, if we have travel from Earth which is 30,000 light years from Sag A*, to another star near Earth, which is about 30,000 light years from Sag A* - and we realize we don't have to slow down at Sag A* if we orbit around the ergosphere, so as to travel through time - emerging say 60,000 years before we arrive, so that we arrive at the moment we left at our destination. (Of course we could arrange to arrive back at Earth *before* we leave, giving us the ability to travel in time, by choosing the right trajectory around Sag A*). Our time on board is given by





http://spacetravel.nathangeffen.webf...pacetravel.php





It would take 21.39 years ship time, and 60,001.94 years star time, and so, the path through the ergosphere would require this sort of negative time delay so that the ship arrives at its destination in the right star time.



Now the only problem we have is the fact that it takes a helluva lot of energy to send a ship on a journey like this.



2,000,000 kg ship - 2000 tonnes - enough to carry 200 people through deep space - at 10 tonnes per person, requires 1.112e28 Joules of energy.



Now, stars produce a lot of energy. The Sun for example produces 3.868e26 Joules per second. So, it would take 28.8 seconds of the Sun's entire output spaced over 60,001.94 years or 1 part in 65.76 billion of the Sun's output to project a 2,000 tonne scout ship on this Journey.





That's a solar collector, operating near the solar surface only 12 km in diameter. This produces a laser beam with 250 nm wavelength, and it beams that laser energy to a satellite 700 AU away. A 12 km diameter emitter produces a 3 km diameter spot at 700 AU. That beam is then bounced back around the sun, using the Sun's gravity field as a collimator, to beam that energy up to 30,000 km away. This 10 billion km wide aperture, combined with a 250 nm wavelength, produces a spot at 30,00 light years that's 8.7 meters in diameter!



http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=29341



Now, not only can the ship travel through time within the ergosphere, it can also use the Penrose Process to extract massenergy from the black hole itself.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_me...enrose_process



In this way, engineers can craft systems that create arrays of microscopic black holes within the spacecraft as it passes through Sag A* ergosphere.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole



Microscopic black holes are used to store massenergy, and then emit that energy under controlled conditions in the form of collimated neutrino beams to produce a sort of neutrino rocket with immense mass ratios.



In this way sufficient massenergy is extracted en-route to fly to the destination, stop, and return to Sag A*- recharge - and return to Earth, with sufficient propellant to repeat another flight to another star, without the UV laser which is merely used to set off each spacecraft on its initial journey. Even this can be dispensed with if the first ship returns with enough microscopic black hole arrays to fuel another ship, increasing to any size in an instant since time is at the disposal of those controlling this technology.



So, this - in broad strokes - describes how interstellar voyaging can take place within the confines of what we know, and what we know how to do.



If these sorts of things are ever reduced to practice, then it is likely that we have folks from the future with us today.





What about aliens?



Well, aliens definitely exist according to the Drake Equation.



n = R* x Fp x Fl x Fi x Ft x L



So, n is the number of ETI. R* is the rate of star formation. Fp are the fraction of stars with planets. Fl is the fraction of stars with life. Fi is the fraction of stars with intelligence. Ft is the fraction of intelligences with technology. L is the life span of that technology.



The easiest way to understand this equation is to consider a light bulb factory. R is the rate of light bulb production - say 1000 an hour. F is the fraction of bulbs of this type - say red and say that's 10%. L is how long the bulb lasts. Say 2,000 hours. So we can see that there are 200,000 red bulbs in the world from this factory.



Now the rate of star formation is 6, Fp=1, Fl=0.9, Fi=?, Ft=0.01, L=?



Now, it took half the age of the Earth for multi-celled life to appear. Then it took most of the rest of the age of the Earth for brains to appear. Then it took lots of different types of humanoid species (Neanderthal, etc.) before technology appears. This means that multi-celled life is rare. Brains are rare. One chance in 34 billion in a given year, becomes 50% chance in 2 billion years, a near certainty in 4 billion years. Intelligence takes brains, and that means multi-celled life, so if that's the same level of difficulty, it has the same lag, but still becomes certain after 2 to 4 billions of years. Still in a given year, we only have one chance in a billion or less, and together this is one chance in a quintillion. So, if technical civilizations last only say 1 million years or less, then we have only 1 star in a hundred billion or so, that's alive at any one time.



Life is rare on the scale of galaxies.



But common on the scale of the cosmos, since there are hundreds of billions of galaxies around.



Also, with time travel, you have parallel realities as well. Providing the many worlds hypothesis is correct.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_worlds_interpretation



The direction of time is given by the past being simple and the future being complex. That is, like a tree growing from its roots to it branches, every time something can happen, it does happen, in all ways its possible to happen, and all those branches exist in some fashion. So, think of a squirrel running up a try. He looks back and sees the path he followed. He looks forward and sees all the paths he could follow. This gives a unique character to his progress. It also describes us moving through time.



Now, if a squirrel turns around and travels back down the tree, he can choose another route. If other squirrels are running along beside him, they can come back and report other branches.



So, there are four types of visitors possible with this technology described above;



(1) future humans,

(2) future para-humans (terrestrial life forms)

(3) aliens,

(4) para-aliens (ET life forms)



Now, while life is rare in the galaxy, and common in the cosmos, it is even more populous in the para-cosmos (or what physicists call the multi-verse)


Are aliens here?


I have no idea.

Most of the complex life on Earth is alien, especially if we humans having evolved from such.

On 3/23/2014 12:38 PM, Brad Guth wrote:

Are aliens here?


I have no idea.

Most of the complex life on Earth is alien, especially if we humans having evolved from such.


Some things in life are certain. Death & taxes. Night is followed by
day. And when Mook posts, Guth will suck his dick.


--
HVAC -Shock Treatment For Believers

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 12:38:57 PM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:
On Sunday, March 23, 2014 2:27:49 AM UTC-7, wrote:

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 9:03:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:



On Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:06:49 PM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:







On Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:02:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:















I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.































What if they used an icy planetoid of 7.5e22 kg to get here?















I don't know. I'm a machinist not a scientist although I have a healthy interest in all things in all things astronomical.







Time dilation occurs at high speeds according to Lorentz dilation







t' = t * SQRT( 1 - (v/c)^2 )











It takes one year at one gee to approach the speed of light. You can go anywhere in the cosmos in 40 years at one gee.







So, if energy is no problem, you can go anywhere in the cosmos in a human life time.







Suspended animation is a solved problem.







http://labs.fhcrc.org/roth/







So, we can freeze someone for up to 40 years, and thaw them out at the destination.







So, its possible to send someone anywhere in the cosmos.







Of course, hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of years pass on Earth for such travelers, so they arrive back at Earth in the distant future.







But, time travel is possible.







http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract...hysRevD.9.2203







http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics...me-Travel.html







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHC8z6ULs18







Particularly inside the ergosphere of super-massive black holes.







http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=v...ge&q&f=fal se







And a super-massive black hole exists at the centre of the Milky Way Galaxy. Its called Sagittarius A*. Its 2 million times as massive as the Sun and its ergosphere is the size of the orbit of Mercury.







So, if we have travel from Earth which is 30,000 light years from Sag A*, to another star near Earth, which is about 30,000 light years from Sag A* - and we realize we don't have to slow down at Sag A* if we orbit around the ergosphere, so as to travel through time - emerging say 60,000 years before we arrive, so that we arrive at the moment we left at our destination. (Of course we could arrange to arrive back at Earth *before* we leave, giving us the ability to travel in time, by choosing the right trajectory around Sag A*). Our time on board is given by











http://spacetravel.nathangeffen.webf...pacetravel.php











It would take 21.39 years ship time, and 60,001.94 years star time, and so, the path through the ergosphere would require this sort of negative time delay so that the ship arrives at its destination in the right star time..







Now the only problem we have is the fact that it takes a helluva lot of energy to send a ship on a journey like this.







2,000,000 kg ship - 2000 tonnes - enough to carry 200 people through deep space - at 10 tonnes per person, requires 1.112e28 Joules of energy.







Now, stars produce a lot of energy. The Sun for example produces 3.868e26 Joules per second. So, it would take 28.8 seconds of the Sun's entire output spaced over 60,001.94 years or 1 part in 65.76 billion of the Sun's output to project a 2,000 tonne scout ship on this Journey.











That's a solar collector, operating near the solar surface only 12 km in diameter. This produces a laser beam with 250 nm wavelength, and it beams that laser energy to a satellite 700 AU away. A 12 km diameter emitter produces a 3 km diameter spot at 700 AU. That beam is then bounced back around the sun, using the Sun's gravity field as a collimator, to beam that energy up to 30,000 km away. This 10 billion km wide aperture, combined with a 250 nm wavelength, produces a spot at 30,00 light years that's 8.7 meters in diameter!







http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=29341







Now, not only can the ship travel through time within the ergosphere, it can also use the Penrose Process to extract massenergy from the black hole itself.







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_me...enrose_process







In this way, engineers can craft systems that create arrays of microscopic black holes within the spacecraft as it passes through Sag A* ergosphere.







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole







Microscopic black holes are used to store massenergy, and then emit that energy under controlled conditions in the form of collimated neutrino beams to produce a sort of neutrino rocket with immense mass ratios.







In this way sufficient massenergy is extracted en-route to fly to the destination, stop, and return to Sag A*- recharge - and return to Earth, with sufficient propellant to repeat another flight to another star, without the UV laser which is merely used to set off each spacecraft on its initial journey. Even this can be dispensed with if the first ship returns with enough microscopic black hole arrays to fuel another ship, increasing to any size in an instant since time is at the disposal of those controlling this technology.







So, this - in broad strokes - describes how interstellar voyaging can take place within the confines of what we know, and what we know how to do.







If these sorts of things are ever reduced to practice, then it is likely that we have folks from the future with us today.











What about aliens?







Well, aliens definitely exist according to the Drake Equation.







n = R* x Fp x Fl x Fi x Ft x L







So, n is the number of ETI. R* is the rate of star formation. Fp are the fraction of stars with planets. Fl is the fraction of stars with life. Fi is the fraction of stars with intelligence. Ft is the fraction of intelligences with technology. L is the life span of that technology.







The easiest way to understand this equation is to consider a light bulb factory. R is the rate of light bulb production - say 1000 an hour. F is the fraction of bulbs of this type - say red and say that's 10%. L is how long the bulb lasts. Say 2,000 hours. So we can see that there are 200,000 red bulbs in the world from this factory.







Now the rate of star formation is 6, Fp=1, Fl=0.9, Fi=?, Ft=0.01, L=?







Now, it took half the age of the Earth for multi-celled life to appear. Then it took most of the rest of the age of the Earth for brains to appear. Then it took lots of different types of humanoid species (Neanderthal, etc.) before technology appears. This means that multi-celled life is rare.. Brains are rare. One chance in 34 billion in a given year, becomes 50% chance in 2 billion years, a near certainty in 4 billion years. Intelligence takes brains, and that means multi-celled life, so if that's the same level of difficulty, it has the same lag, but still becomes certain after 2 to 4 billions of years. Still in a given year, we only have one chance in a billion or less, and together this is one chance in a quintillion. So, if technical civilizations last only say 1 million years or less, then we have only 1 star in a hundred billion or so, that's alive at any one time.







Life is rare on the scale of galaxies.







But common on the scale of the cosmos, since there are hundreds of billions of galaxies around.







Also, with time travel, you have parallel realities as well. Providing the many worlds hypothesis is correct.







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_worlds_interpretation







The direction of time is given by the past being simple and the future being complex. That is, like a tree growing from its roots to it branches, every time something can happen, it does happen, in all ways its possible to happen, and all those branches exist in some fashion. So, think of a squirrel running up a try. He looks back and sees the path he followed. He looks forward and sees all the paths he could follow. This gives a unique character to his progress. It also describes us moving through time.







Now, if a squirrel turns around and travels back down the tree, he can choose another route. If other squirrels are running along beside him, they can come back and report other branches.







So, there are four types of visitors possible with this technology described above;







(1) future humans,



(2) future para-humans (terrestrial life forms)



(3) aliens,



(4) para-aliens (ET life forms)







Now, while life is rare in the galaxy, and common in the cosmos, it is even more populous in the para-cosmos (or what physicists call the multi-verse)





Are aliens here?





I have no idea.



Most of the complex life on Earth is alien, especially if we humans having evolved from such.

Well, this gets beyond my training and understanding. There is certainly substantial anecdotal evidence of an alien presence. Stephen Greer and others in the Disclosure Project have assembled massive quantities of such data from very credible sources.

I also recommend 'The Book of the Damned' by contrarian Charles Hoy Fort. He was a journalist who wrote in the late 19th and early 20th centuries who was a keen observer of how scientific journals of the day were eager to rationalize errors to maintain their belief system. He accumulated a number of stories that his editors rejected over the years, and assembled them into a book in 1919. By that time atomic theory, relativity theory, the invention of the motorcar and airplane, opened people's minds to the possibilities of a world far larger than admitted by the science of the day, or even this day!

http://www.sacred-texts.com/fort/damn/damn00.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAdVb37mO1w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tstARlqbUY8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4Or7jbN5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I88MNgAEPMk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MGK5ht_8Ek --Ch 11 & 12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97as-tCRKJA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOuzols6vgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDY1CT7k3FE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjW5YavxoCA

I recommend Chapter Twelve.

Fort, reports 'unusual' events throughout the book. What today we would call UFO sightings, and concludes that astronomy isn't up to the task before it because it cannot accept the reality of the cosmos any more than a night watchman can accept the reality of the street he watches over.

Astronomy is like a night watchman looking at the lanterns at night, where the street's been torn up.

There are gas lights and kerosene lamps and electric lights in the neighborhood: matches flaring, fires in stoves, bonfires, house afire somewhere; lights of automobiles, illuminated signs--

The watchman and his one little system.

He doesn't see the drugs and divorce, rape and murder, venereal disease and drunkenness.

These are excluded in his puritanical view of the street.

In the same way the prim and the precise, the exact, the homogeneous, the single, the mathematic, the puritanic, pure, and perfect is admitted by astronomers studying the lights in the night sky.

As a result, we can have the illusion of how the universe works, only by disregarding and infinity of detail and denying they are there.

Just like the watchman.

Fort's antagonism is not to Science, but to the attitude of the scientists that their puerile paltry and insufficient dogmas and standards adequate to understanding the cosmos despite their obvious shortcomings. It's as if several persons start out to Chicago, and get to Buffalo, and one is under the delusion that Buffalo is Chicago. Anyone deluded in this way will be a resistance to the true progress toward Chicago.

He allows himself to analyze the events he reports in the previous chapters and concludes, that we are owned by something the same way a pond full of fishes is owned by someone, and who periodically comes to the pond for a bit of sport.

"Brad Guth" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:02:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:
I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our
planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible
according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to
get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens
had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what
if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget
children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet
what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't
comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.

What if they used an icy planetoid of 7.5e22 kg to get here?


***Why, pray tell, oh all knowing doofus, is 7.5e22kg of any significance
???
Did you weigh it on your bathroom scale, or did BeertBrain supply you
with one of his magical concave/convex theory based shortcuts ??

On 3/23/2014 5:12 PM, wrote:


I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.

Most of the complex life on Earth is alien, especially if we humans having evolved from such.

Well, this gets beyond my training and understanding. There is certainly substantial anecdotal evidence of an alien presence. Stephen Greer and others in the Disclosure Project have assembled massive quantities of such data from very credible sources.

I also recommend 'The Book of the Damned' by contrarian Charles Hoy Fort. He was a journalist who wrote in the late 19th and early 20th centuries who was a keen observer of how scientific journals of the day were eager to rationalize errors to maintain their belief system. He accumulated a number of stories that his editors rejected over the years, and assembled them into a book in 1919. By that time atomic theory, relativity theory, the invention of the motorcar and airplane, opened people's minds to the possibilities of a world far larger than admitted by the science of the day, or even this day!


Mook, wtf type of drugs were you on when you wrote this ****?


--
HVAC -Shock Treatment For Believers

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 2:12:53 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, March 23, 2014 12:38:57 PM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:

On Sunday, March 23, 2014 2:27:49 AM UTC-7, wrote:



On Saturday, March 22, 2014 9:03:17 PM UTC-4, wrote:







On Saturday, March 22, 2014 8:06:49 PM UTC-4, Brad Guth wrote:















On Saturday, March 22, 2014 5:02:55 PM UTC-7, wrote:































I used to think that it would be impossible for Aliens to exist on our planet, the planet Earth. Since travel faster than light is impossible according to most scientists, it would take aliens quite a long time to get here, even if they came from the closest star. Now, what if Aliens had a really long life span, in the tens of thousands of years. Or what if they built a multi generational ship. Life forms get on, beget children, these children beget children and so on until they find a planet what's habitable. Or perhaps Alien life is so out there that we can't comprehend it. They could travel in radio waves etc.































































What if they used an icy planetoid of 7.5e22 kg to get here?































I don't know. I'm a machinist not a scientist although I have a healthy interest in all things in all things astronomical.















Time dilation occurs at high speeds according to Lorentz dilation















t' = t * SQRT( 1 - (v/c)^2 )























It takes one year at one gee to approach the speed of light. You can go anywhere in the cosmos in 40 years at one gee.















So, if energy is no problem, you can go anywhere in the cosmos in a human life time.















Suspended animation is a solved problem.















http://labs.fhcrc.org/roth/















So, we can freeze someone for up to 40 years, and thaw them out at the destination.















So, its possible to send someone anywhere in the cosmos.















Of course, hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of years pass on Earth for such travelers, so they arrive back at Earth in the distant future..















But, time travel is possible.















http://journals.aps.org/prd/abstract...hysRevD.9.2203















http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/physics...me-Travel.html















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHC8z6ULs18















Particularly inside the ergosphere of super-massive black holes.















http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=v...ge&q&f=fal se















And a super-massive black hole exists at the centre of the Milky Way Galaxy. Its called Sagittarius A*. Its 2 million times as massive as the Sun and its ergosphere is the size of the orbit of Mercury.















So, if we have travel from Earth which is 30,000 light years from Sag A*, to another star near Earth, which is about 30,000 light years from Sag A* - and we realize we don't have to slow down at Sag A* if we orbit around the ergosphere, so as to travel through time - emerging say 60,000 years before we arrive, so that we arrive at the moment we left at our destination. (Of course we could arrange to arrive back at Earth *before* we leave, giving us the ability to travel in time, by choosing the right trajectory around Sag A*). Our time on board is given by























http://spacetravel.nathangeffen.webf...pacetravel.php























It would take 21.39 years ship time, and 60,001.94 years star time, and so, the path through the ergosphere would require this sort of negative time delay so that the ship arrives at its destination in the right star time.















Now the only problem we have is the fact that it takes a helluva lot of energy to send a ship on a journey like this.















2,000,000 kg ship - 2000 tonnes - enough to carry 200 people through deep space - at 10 tonnes per person, requires 1.112e28 Joules of energy.















Now, stars produce a lot of energy. The Sun for example produces 3.868e26 Joules per second. So, it would take 28.8 seconds of the Sun's entire output spaced over 60,001.94 years or 1 part in 65.76 billion of the Sun's output to project a 2,000 tonne scout ship on this Journey.























That's a solar collector, operating near the solar surface only 12 km in diameter. This produces a laser beam with 250 nm wavelength, and it beams that laser energy to a satellite 700 AU away. A 12 km diameter emitter produces a 3 km diameter spot at 700 AU. That beam is then bounced back around the sun, using the Sun's gravity field as a collimator, to beam that energy up to 30,000 km away. This 10 billion km wide aperture, combined with a 250 nm wavelength, produces a spot at 30,00 light years that's 8.7 meters in diameter!















http://www.centauri-dreams.org/?p=29341















Now, not only can the ship travel through time within the ergosphere, it can also use the Penrose Process to extract massenergy from the black hole itself.















http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_me...enrose_process















In this way, engineers can craft systems that create arrays of microscopic black holes within the spacecraft as it passes through Sag A* ergosphere.















http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole















Microscopic black holes are used to store massenergy, and then emit that energy under controlled conditions in the form of collimated neutrino beams to produce a sort of neutrino rocket with immense mass ratios.















In this way sufficient massenergy is extracted en-route to fly to the destination, stop, and return to Sag A*- recharge - and return to Earth, with sufficient propellant to repeat another flight to another star, without the UV laser which is merely used to set off each spacecraft on its initial journey. Even this can be dispensed with if the first ship returns with enough microscopic black hole arrays to fuel another ship, increasing to any size in an instant since time is at the disposal of those controlling this technology.















So, this - in broad strokes - describes how interstellar voyaging can take place within the confines of what we know, and what we know how to do..















If these sorts of things are ever reduced to practice, then it is likely that we have folks from the future with us today.























What about aliens?















Well, aliens definitely exist according to the Drake Equation.















n = R* x Fp x Fl x Fi x Ft x L















So, n is the number of ETI. R* is the rate of star formation. Fp are the fraction of stars with planets. Fl is the fraction of stars with life. Fi is the fraction of stars with intelligence. Ft is the fraction of intelligences with technology. L is the life span of that technology.















The easiest way to understand this equation is to consider a light bulb factory. R is the rate of light bulb production - say 1000 an hour. F is the fraction of bulbs of this type - say red and say that's 10%. L is how long the bulb lasts. Say 2,000 hours. So we can see that there are 200,000 red bulbs in the world from this factory.















Now the rate of star formation is 6, Fp=1, Fl=0.9, Fi=?, Ft=0..01, L=?















Now, it took half the age of the Earth for multi-celled life to appear. Then it took most of the rest of the age of the Earth for brains to appear. Then it took lots of different types of humanoid species (Neanderthal, etc.) before technology appears. This means that multi-celled life is rare. Brains are rare. One chance in 34 billion in a given year, becomes 50% chance in 2 billion years, a near certainty in 4 billion years. Intelligence takes brains, and that means multi-celled life, so if that's the same level of difficulty, it has the same lag, but still becomes certain after 2 to 4 billions of years. Still in a given year, we only have one chance in a billion or less, and together this is one chance in a quintillion. So, if technical civilizations last only say 1 million years or less, then we have only 1 star in a hundred billion or so, that's alive at any one time.















Life is rare on the scale of galaxies.















But common on the scale of the cosmos, since there are hundreds of billions of galaxies around.















Also, with time travel, you have parallel realities as well. Providing the many worlds hypothesis is correct.















http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many_worlds_interpretation















The direction of time is given by the past being simple and the future being complex. That is, like a tree growing from its roots to it branches, every time something can happen, it does happen, in all ways its possible to happen, and all those branches exist in some fashion. So, think of a squirrel running up a try. He looks back and sees the path he followed. He looks forward and sees all the paths he could follow. This gives a unique character to his progress. It also describes us moving through time.















Now, if a squirrel turns around and travels back down the tree, he can choose another route. If other squirrels are running along beside him, they can come back and report other branches.















So, there are four types of visitors possible with this technology described above;















(1) future humans,







(2) future para-humans (terrestrial life forms)







(3) aliens,







(4) para-aliens (ET life forms)















Now, while life is rare in the galaxy, and common in the cosmos, it is even more populous in the para-cosmos (or what physicists call the multi-verse)











Are aliens here?











I have no idea.







Most of the complex life on Earth is alien, especially if we humans having evolved from such.



Well, this gets beyond my training and understanding. There is certainly substantial anecdotal evidence of an alien presence. Stephen Greer and others in the Disclosure Project have assembled massive quantities of such data from very credible sources.



I also recommend 'The Book of the Damned' by contrarian Charles Hoy Fort. He was a journalist who wrote in the late 19th and early 20th centuries who was a keen observer of how scientific journals of the day were eager to rationalize errors to maintain their belief system. He accumulated a number of stories that his editors rejected over the years, and assembled them into a book in 1919. By that time atomic theory, relativity theory, the invention of the motorcar and airplane, opened people's minds to the possibilities of a world far larger than admitted by the science of the day, or even this day!



http://www.sacred-texts.com/fort/damn/damn00.htm



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAdVb37mO1w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tstARlqbUY8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4Or7jbN5A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I88MNgAEPMk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MGK5ht_8Ek --Ch 11 & 12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97as-tCRKJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOuzols6vgQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDY1CT7k3FE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjW5YavxoCA



I recommend Chapter Twelve.



Fort, reports 'unusual' events throughout the book. What today we would call UFO sightings, and concludes that astronomy isn't up to the task before it because it cannot accept the reality of the cosmos any more than a night watchman can accept the reality of the street he watches over.



Astronomy is like a night watchman looking at the lanterns at night, where the street's been torn up.



There are gas lights and kerosene lamps and electric lights in the neighborhood: matches flaring, fires in stoves, bonfires, house afire somewhere; lights of automobiles, illuminated signs--



The watchman and his one little system.



He doesn't see the drugs and divorce, rape and murder, venereal disease and drunkenness.



These are excluded in his puritanical view of the street.



In the same way the prim and the precise, the exact, the homogeneous, the single, the mathematic, the puritanic, pure, and perfect is admitted by astronomers studying the lights in the night sky.



As a result, we can have the illusion of how the universe works, only by disregarding and infinity of detail and denying they are there.



Just like the watchman.



Fort's antagonism is not to Science, but to the attitude of the scientists that their puerile paltry and insufficient dogmas and standards adequate to understanding the cosmos despite their obvious shortcomings. It's as if several persons start out to Chicago, and get to Buffalo, and one is under the delusion that Buffalo is Chicago. Anyone deluded in this way will be a resistance to the true progress toward Chicago.



He allows himself to analyze the events he reports in the previous chapters and concludes, that we are owned by something the same way a pond full of fishes is owned by someone, and who periodically comes to the pond for a bit of sport.

The vast complexity of life on Earth, much of which being a lot better suited as to adapting and better surviving than us humans, seems to suggest that ETs seeded our planet with numerous complex species. Even via directed panspermia shouldn't be unlikely, because even our guys with their right stuff can manage to do at least that much.