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artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 16th 03, 04:01 PM
Johnson..
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?

Hi Folks
Just joined the group for the purposes of posting an idea.

I have been doing a little reading today about artificial gravity and
haven't seen magnetism mentioned at all. This may sound stupid but couldn't
the floor of a spacecraft be magnetized and the crew wear suits that would
be attracted to that floor?

It would be more practical in a spacestation, which runs on photovoltaic,
cause the electro magnetic floor would be a drain on electricity.

Please let me know what you think.


  #2  
Old August 18th 03, 05:49 PM
Gordon D. Pusch
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?

"Johnson.." writes:

I have been doing a little reading today about artificial gravity and
haven't seen magnetism mentioned at all. This may sound stupid but
couldn't the floor of a spacecraft be magnetized and the crew wear suits
that would be attracted to that floor?


Notwithstanding the issue that strong magnetic fields tend to interfere with
the proper operation of electrical equipment, there is the fundamental
issue that magnetism only affects magnetic materials, whereas the primary
characteristic of gravity and inertia is that both of them affect =ALL=
forms of matter equally.

Furthermore it is not the magnetic _FIELD_ that generates force on an
object, but the magnetic field _GRADIENT_: ferromagnetic materials are
attracted to a magnet because the field strength _INCREASES_ as one gets
closer to the magnet, so that moving them closer to the magnet increases
the magnetic field energy stored in the ferromagnetic object and the
perturbation it makes in the surrounding field. If you put a chunk of iron
in a perfectly UNIFORM magnetic field, it would feel no =NET= force at all
--- it would merely feel a torque that would align it with the field, and
even that only if it was asymmetrical.

Hence, for your proposal to work, one would have to generate a constant
magnetic field _GRADIENT_ of `X' tesla per meter throughout the volume of
the crew space, i.e., it would need to be strongest at the floor, and
linearly decrease with distance from the floor. Also, the so-called
"magnetic lines of force" will appear to be diverging outward from some
point or line source below the floor. This creates a number of problems:

1.) Maxwell's equations plus practical materials considerations impose
physical limits on how large a volume over which one can produce a uniform
magnetic field gradient.

2.) Since most healthy humans tend to be non-spherical, their magnetic
suits will tend to align their bodies along the magnetic field lines ---
which as I said, will appear to be DIVERGING from some point or line
below the floor. This will mean the floors will have to be sharply curved
unless their is a very strong uniform background field imposed along with
the uniform field gradient.

3.) Unless all their tools are non-magnetic, they will attempt to align
themselves along the magnetic field lines. Imagine trying to use a wrench
or screwdriver that is constantly trying to twist itself out of your hand
and line up perpendicular to the local magnetic field.

4.) Ferromagnetic materials are highly nonlinear; hence, if you put two
chunks of iron in a magnetic field, their induced magnetic moments will
cause them to exert complicated and difficult to predict forces on each
other if you get them close together. Likewise for two humans wearing
ferromagnetic suits.


It would be more practical in a spacestation, which runs on photovoltaic,
cause the electro magnetic floor would be a drain on electricity.


I don't think you realize just how LITTLE power the solar panels on the
space station will put out. The =TOTAL= power capability of the ISS is only
110 kilowatts, or roughly a mere 150 horsepower --- about the equivalent
of three or four automobiles running flat out. The power requirements
for your scheme would be ENORMOUS unless the magnets are superconducting ---
and even them, the cost would be large, since it costs a LOT of power to
keep a superconductor cold enough to superconduct (cryogenic refrigerators
consume tens or even HUNDREDS of watts of power for every watt of heat they
pull out of the cryostat!).

In summary, their are multiple reasons why this idea would be both
impractical and undesirable over the entire volume of a space station.
It =MIGHT= perhaps be possible in a very small "exercise room" is a space
station with MUCH more power to spare than the ISS, but I do not see that
happening any time soon.


-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = \n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'
  #3  
Old August 18th 03, 08:09 PM
Karl Hallowell
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?

"Johnson.." wrote in message ...
Hi Folks
Just joined the group for the purposes of posting an idea.

I have been doing a little reading today about artificial gravity and
haven't seen magnetism mentioned at all. This may sound stupid but couldn't
the floor of a spacecraft be magnetized and the crew wear suits that would
be attracted to that floor?

It would be more practical in a spacestation, which runs on photovoltaic,
cause the electro magnetic floor would be a drain on electricity.

Please let me know what you think.


You would just need permenant magnets embedded in the boots. The real
reason for artificial gravity is that there are serious health
consequences to living in a zero-gee environment for any length of
time. Plus, it helps keep your stuff sorted.


Karl Hallowell

  #4  
Old August 19th 03, 04:58 AM
Christopher M. Jones
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?

"Johnson.." wrote:
I have been doing a little reading today about artificial gravity and
haven't seen magnetism mentioned at all. This may sound stupid but couldn't
the floor of a spacecraft be magnetized and the crew wear suits that would
be attracted to that floor?

It would be more practical in a spacestation, which runs on photovoltaic,
cause the electro magnetic floor would be a drain on electricity.


You could do that a lot cheaper with velcro.

The point of artificial gravity is not that it makes it
easier to get around (actually, it makes it harder) but
that it prevents adverse health effects of zero-g, such
as bone loss and muscle loss.

  #5  
Old August 19th 03, 07:31 PM
Len
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?

"Johnson.." wrote in message ...
Hi Folks
Just joined the group for the purposes of posting an idea.

I have been doing a little reading today about artificial gravity and
haven't seen magnetism mentioned at all. This may sound stupid but couldn't
the floor of a spacecraft be magnetized and the crew wear suits that would
be attracted to that floor?

It would be more practical in a spacestation, which runs on photovoltaic,
cause the electro magnetic floor would be a drain on electricity.

Please let me know what you think.


Unfortunately, this only solves part of the problem.
Velcro has been suggested (and used?) to make one's
feet adhere to a surface. However, this doesn't
prevent calcium loss in bones or make toilets flush
any better.

Best regards,
Len (Cormier)
PanAero, Inc. and Third Millennium Aerospace, Inc.
( http://www.tour2space.com )
  #6  
Old August 20th 03, 04:35 AM
Christopher M. Jones
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?

"Len" wrote:
Unfortunately, this only solves part of the problem.
Velcro has been suggested (and used?) to make one's
feet adhere to a surface. However, this doesn't
prevent calcium loss in bones or make toilets flush
any better.


If velcro DID make toilets work or flush any better,
I'd be worried.

  #7  
Old August 20th 03, 06:09 AM
Zoltan Szakaly
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?

You would just need permenant magnets embedded in the boots. The real
reason for artificial gravity is that there are serious health
consequences to living in a zero-gee environment for any length of
time. Plus, it helps keep your stuff sorted.


Karl Hallowell


The health consequences could be avoided by putting a load on the
body, for example using bunge cords to pull the shoulders to the feet.
This is similar to the treadmill they have that they run on.
To really reproduce gravity and to perfectly match earth conditions
you need a spinning habitat. This can be cheaply and easily done I
don't know why this is an issue at all. The ship has to have a
cylindrical habitat and this cylinder has to spin. The people on the
inside surface can enjoy almost real gravity.

Zoltan
  #8  
Old August 20th 03, 01:44 PM
lin8080
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?


"Johnson.." schrieb:

the floor of a spacecraft be magnetized and the crew wear suits that would
be attracted to that floor?


It would be more practical in a spacestation, which runs on photovoltaic,
cause the electro magnetic floor would be a drain on electricity.


Please let me know what you think.


Hallo

May be you need a powerful magnetic field to hold a person on the
ground. So the problem is: should the person be able to lift his feet?
Also the design of today spacecraft uses all walls for equipment.

Perhaps you include a little switch inside the shoes, so when the leg is
lifted, the switch will turn off the magnetic field in the shoe. But as
I think, some astronauts love it to fly from one corner to the other, of
course, I will enjoy that.

This can be more interesting for bigger spacecrafts, not so big that you
get an effect when parts are rotate.

But, what will happen outside the spacecraft, when you have a megnetic
field running. Would this act like a particel collector? This will
bombard your hull and can cause heavy damage. So you can construct a
magnetic field around the space ship, that operate like such a
collector, then maybe some micro meteorits collapsed inside this field
and lose their energy there. Possible to lower the cosmic rays this way?

lin

  #9  
Old August 20th 03, 06:57 PM
Christopher James Huff
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Default artificial gravity a different idea...maybe?

In article ,
(Zoltan Szakaly) wrote:

The health consequences could be avoided by putting a load on the
body, for example using bunge cords to pull the shoulders to the feet.
This is similar to the treadmill they have that they run on.


This won't put a load on your circulatory system though. I don't know
how much of a problem that would be if bone loss is somehow avoided.


To really reproduce gravity and to perfectly match earth conditions
you need a spinning habitat. This can be cheaply and easily done I
don't know why this is an issue at all. The ship has to have a
cylindrical habitat and this cylinder has to spin. The people on the
inside surface can enjoy almost real gravity.


It doesn't even have to be a cylinder rotating on its axis. It could be
two sections linked with a bridge, spinning end over end. This would
give you a wider "radius", meaning lower rotation and less coriolis
effects. However, it'd kind of screw up low-gravity research, and would
make less efficient use of available space, and require more material to
be launched. You could just put living areas in a separate rotating
section, but that's a lot more complex. With current technology, the two
parts would probably have to be physically separate. Experiments would
have to be done by remote (which could largely be done from ground), or
the astronauts would "commute".

A better solution: two complete stations, one with rotation gravity, one
exclusively for low-g experiments. Crew would rotate between them
periodically, say every two weeks. Pretty far-fetched, considering how
we are doing with just one station.

This reminds me of a book I read...I think it was Imperial Earth. Part
of it covered a trip from Titan to Earth. As I recall, the ship was
under constant acceleration, but not enough to prevent bone loss, and
the main character had to build up endurance so he could function on
Earth. The ship featured a ring around its circumference, and a common
exercise was to run or ride a bicycle around this ring. One would start
out slow, with "up" being the direction the ship was accelerating, but
as one gained speed, apparent gravity would increase and point outward,
perpendicular to the axis of the ring.

--
Christopher James Huff
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjameshuff/
POV-Ray TAG:
http://tag.povray.org/
 




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