The Fermi Paradox and SETI Success

On Aug 15, 7:23*pm, Paul J Gans wrote:
In talk.origins 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank wrote:

On Aug 15, 12:52*pm, Paul J Gans wrote:
After all, how many of us know how to chip stones so as to form
a proper stone age tool? *
(raises hand) *I do!! I do!!!
I was taught how to chip arrowheads as a little kid in the early 70's,
by the grandfather of a friend of mine who lived on the Pine Ridge
Reservation in South Dakota.
The old-style glass insulators for power lines, make the best
arrowheads.
The thick glass at the bottom of beer bottles works pretty well, too
(though you have to chip the curve out).

All right! *When you finish the YouTube video so we can all
learn it, you can go to work on making a bow.



Well actually I can make a bow too . . . it involves some seasoned
wood, some stone scrapers, some animal fat and a fire, followed by
lots of sinew.

And for the string, either some sinew or, in a pinch, a bunch of
milkweed plants.





================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"

Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedAndBlackPublishers.com

In talk.origins 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank wrote:
On Aug 15, 7:23Â*pm, Paul J Gans wrote:
In talk.origins 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank wrote:

On Aug 15, 12:52Â*pm, Paul J Gans wrote:
After all, how many of us know how to chip stones so as to form
a proper stone age tool? Â*
(raises hand) Â*I do!! I do!!!
I was taught how to chip arrowheads as a little kid in the early 70's,
by the grandfather of a friend of mine who lived on the Pine Ridge
Reservation in South Dakota.
The old-style glass insulators for power lines, make the best
arrowheads.
The thick glass at the bottom of beer bottles works pretty well, too
(though you have to chip the curve out).

All right! Â*When you finish the YouTube video so we can all
learn it, you can go to work on making a bow.



Well actually I can make a bow too . . . it involves some seasoned
wood, some stone scrapers, some animal fat and a fire, followed by
lots of sinew.

And for the string, either some sinew or, in a pinch, a bunch of
milkweed plants.




ok, there you go. We'll all follow you!


--
--- Paul J. Gans

On Aug 15, 9:58*pm, Paul J Gans wrote:
In talk.origins 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank wrote:





On Aug 15, 7:23*pm, Paul J Gans wrote:
In talk.origins 'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank wrote:

On Aug 15, 12:52*pm, Paul J Gans wrote:
After all, how many of us know how to chip stones so as to form
a proper stone age tool? *
(raises hand) *I do!! I do!!!
I was taught how to chip arrowheads as a little kid in the early 70's,
by the grandfather of a friend of mine who lived on the Pine Ridge
Reservation in South Dakota.
The old-style glass insulators for power lines, make the best
arrowheads.
The thick glass at the bottom of beer bottles works pretty well, too
(though you have to chip the curve out).

All right! *When you finish the YouTube video so we can all
learn it, you can go to work on making a bow.
Well actually I can make a bow too . . . it involves some seasoned
wood, some stone scrapers, some animal fat and a fire, followed by
lots of sinew.
And for the string, either some sinew or, in a pinch, a bunch of
milkweed plants.


ok, there you go. *We'll all follow you!


Together, we can drive the woolly mammoth to extinction.






================================================
Lenny Flank
"There are no loose threads in the web of life"

Editor, Red and Black Publishers
http://www.RedAndBlackPublishers.com

In article
,
"'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank" wrote:
....

Together, we can drive the woolly mammoth to extinction.



Is this the spot for the "been there, done that" comment?

On Fri, 15 Aug 2008 19:26:23 -0700, Michael Siemon
wrote in talk.origins:

In article
,
"'Rev Dr' Lenny Flank" wrote:
...

Together, we can drive the woolly mammoth to extinction.



Is this the spot for the "been there, done that" comment?

Were you on the expedition with Harter?

Mike Dworetsky wrote:
"Paul J Gans" wrote in message
...
In talk.origins John Wilkins wrote:
Paul J Gans wrote:
In talk.origins John Harshman wrote:
...
Yes, one solution would be for all civilizations to render themselves
undetectable very soon after becoming detectable. This assumes they
don't go in for travel or communication, and never make noticeable
changes to their habitat (like Dyson spheres and such). It seems to me
that this assumption would require humans to be a very unusual sort of
intelligence, because we're going to go in for communication and travel
as soon as we figure out how, if we don't collapse first.
Other civilizations might well be signalling us like mad using
techniques we've not yet invented.
Or techniques we have abandoned? Semaphores?
Or obviously artificial signals such as the ones that begin:

"I am Mr. Harson Gumbaw, nephew of the reigning oligarch
of Obway. I would like you to join me in a business venture
that will make us both rich..."

--
--- Paul J. Gans


Contest proposal: the best interstellar Nigeria-scam radiogram.


ROTFLMAO

Paul J Gans wrote:
In talk.origins Mike Dworetsky wrote:
"Paul J Gans" wrote in message
...
In talk.origins wrote:

[massive deletions]

Once again, the distinction between correlation and causality must be
explained.
The human population has increased in correlation with technological
innovation. That *does not* mean that if there is a small population,
technology will vanish. Indeed, if the population were to start
dropping tomorrow, it would likely *stimulate* the development of
technology to replace labor.
First-world high-tech high-consumption living standards are perfectly
'sustainable' as long as there are few enough people.
I agree. I suspect it would be far easier to create an
electric generator than to start over with stone age
technology.

After all, how many of us know how to chip stones so as to form
a proper stone age tool? But lots of us know the fundamentals of
building a generator.

--
--- Paul J. Gans


There are archaeologists who specialise in just this area--the best way to
make assorted flint tools with materials at hand (other stones, deer
antlers, etc).

Sure, but more of us can spin a copper loop in a magnetic field.


Where to get the copper?

Tiny Bulcher wrote:

flus cwæ› Mike Dworetsky:
"Robert Carnegie" wrote in message
...
Paul J Gans wrote:
The Drake equation assumes that the ETs will be blasting out
electromagnetic waves at a furious rate. *We* started doing
that only in around 1920 or so and already we are doing less
and less of it. By 2120 we could easily be using wired or
directed sources and no indiscriminate electromagnetic radiation
at all.

I'd look for industrial emissions, such as signals from the cross-
country electric power grid. But maybe we will quickly improve our
efficiency and reduce energy losses, or switch to a 100% hydrogen
economy.

I'm told that the United Kingdom is unique in having power demand
surges in the evening at particular times each day. This is because
certain television programmes have large numbers of viewers, and when
the programme breaks or ends, tea is brewed, by using electric
kettles. With digital choices, catch-up, and services such as
YouTube, this may soon change. (And anyway, I recently heard about
it once more from the people who broadcast the television programmes
for which claims are made.)


Especially at the end of the soap "East Enders". Last week a
documentary about Britain included the National Grid controller who
keeps a TV on in the control room, so he knows when the program ends,
and he is able to bring up the various hydroelectric pumped storage
dynamos on time until the 50-Hz average frequency is stabilized again.

I thought it was the commercial break in /Coronation Street/ that was
the main offender?

Not for many years. But I am disappointed that Brits still watch East
Enders, and not, say, Cobbers...
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Philosophy
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."

Paul J Gans wrote:

In talk.origins wrote:

[massive deletions]

Once again, the distinction between correlation and causality must be
explained.

The human population has increased in correlation with technological
innovation. That *does not* mean that if there is a small population,
technology will vanish. Indeed, if the population were to start
dropping tomorrow, it would likely *stimulate* the development of
technology to replace labor.

First-world high-tech high-consumption living standards are perfectly
'sustainable' as long as there are few enough people.

I agree. I suspect it would be far easier to create an
electric generator than to start over with stone age
technology.

After all, how many of us know how to chip stones so as to form
a proper stone age tool? But lots of us know the fundamentals of
building a generator.

Which is great until the reserves of copper wire start to run out... you
can (in the right region) always find chertz. Thought occurs: will
post-apocalytic society be a mix of stone aged and electrical age
technologies? "I will trade all these flints for that electric razor"...
--
John S. Wilkins, Postdoctoral Research Fellow, Philosophy
University of Queensland - Blog: scienceblogs.com/evolvingthoughts
"He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor,
bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious."

K_h wrote:

Fermi's paradox suggests that there are little or no other intelligent
civilizations within the Milky Way galaxy. On the other hand, intelligent
life should exist on a substantial fraction of planets with life because
natural selection broadly increases intelligence with time. Here on the
Earth, for example, numerous mammals have a high degree of intelligence and
many of them could reach human intelligence with a few more million years of
evolution.


ahhh maybe try this definition of the Fermi Paradox - rather
than making up your own? By the way, Fermi never called
it a Paradox! Morons did that for him -
Have a nice drream...

"The Fermi paradox is the apparent contradiction between high estimates of the
probability of the existence of extraterrestrial civilizations and the lack of
evidence for, or contact with, such civilizations.

The extreme age of the universe and its vast number of stars suggest that if the
Earth is typical, extraterrestrial life should be common.[1] Discussing this
proposition over lunch in 1950, the physicist Enrico Fermi questioned why, if a
multitude of advanced extraterrestrial civilizations exist in the Milky Way
galaxy, evidence such as spacecraft or probes are not seen. A more detailed
examination of the implications of the topic began with a paper by Michael H.
Hart in 1975, and it is sometimes referred to as the Fermi-Hart paradox.[2]
Another closely related question is the Great Silence[3]—even if travel is hard,
if life is common, why don't we detect their radio transmissions?"