RIP, Bob Bussard

On Oct 17, 9:32 am, Pat Flannery wrote:
Al wrote:
Can't let this thread pass without mention that Bussard was, at one
time, one of the world's most important experts in nuclear rocketry
during the 1950's and 1960's(*,**). An important figure in the
development and implementation of the USA's only nuclear rocket motors
at Los Alamos.

We still aren't using them you'll note, which may say something...coming
up on fifty years afterwards.
NERVA was heavy; Dumbo was iffy, and both were dirty for surface liftoff.
Even the far later Timberwind project went nowhere fast.
A lot of the isp advantage disappeared in shielding weight and the
weight of the reactor itself.

Pat

Right, but those were problems to be solved, and little research was
done in the USA after the demise of NERVA.
Another example of were the basic physics was sound but the
technological realization is very very hard.

Al wrote:
On Oct 17, 9:32 am, Pat Flannery wrote:
Al wrote:
Can't let this thread pass without mention that Bussard was, at one
time, one of the world's most important experts in nuclear rocketry
during the 1950's and 1960's(*,**). An important figure in the
development and implementation of the USA's only nuclear rocket motors
at Los Alamos.
We still aren't using them you'll note, which may say something...coming
up on fifty years afterwards.
NERVA was heavy; Dumbo was iffy, and both were dirty for surface liftoff.
Even the far later Timberwind project went nowhere fast.
A lot of the isp advantage disappeared in shielding weight and the
weight of the reactor itself.

Pat

Right, but those were problems to be solved, and little research was
done in the USA after the demise of NERVA.
Another example of were the basic physics was sound but the
technological realization is very very hard.

Almost, but not quite, as hard as performing experimental observations
on highly hygroscopic molten metal salt solutions.

Al wrote:
Right, but those were problems to be solved, and little research was
done in the USA after the demise of NERVA.
Another example of were the basic physics was sound but the
technological realization is very very hard.


There's another problem with a nuclear rocket engine - cost.
The engine itself isn't going to be cheap, and once used, the metal it
is made out of is going to be very radioactive, which may well rule out
re-use.
Remember the remote-controlled train that moved the Nerva engine to and
from its test stand and the remote manipulators they needed to work on
it? That would be a big pain in the rear to have to do as a part of
routine engine maintenance.
The Soviets also built a prototype nuclear rocket engine, and they also
decided it wasn't worth the trouble of making a operational one. Heck,
way back in the late 1950's they actually looked into building a nuclear
powered ICBM:
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/yardicbm.htm
....now that's technological overkill in full flower. :-)

Pat

On Oct 17, 7:25 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
Al wrote:
Right, but those were problems to be solved, and little research was
done in the USA after the demise of NERVA.
Another example of were the basic physics was sound but the
technological realization is very very hard.

There's another problem with a nuclear rocket engine - cost.
The engine itself isn't going to be cheap, and once used, the metal it
is made out of is going to be very radioactive, which may well rule out
re-use.
Remember the remote-controlled train that moved the Nerva engine to and
from its test stand and the remote manipulators they needed to work on
it? That would be a big pain in the rear to have to do as a part of
routine engine maintenance.
The Soviets also built a prototype nuclear rocket engine, and they also
decided it wasn't worth the trouble of making a operational one. Heck,
way back in the late 1950's they actually looked into building a nuclear
powered ICBM:http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/yardicbm.htm
...now that's technological overkill in full flower. :-)

Pat

Cost, yeah another problem to solve.

Well one thing I always wondered , and never had a chance to ask Bob,
he was thick into the nuclear propulsion work when Project Pluto came
along:

http://www.merkle.com/pluto/pluto.html

Always wondered, he must have known about the 'crowbar' , if that also
did not give him the idea for the Interstellar Ramjet?

Al wrote:

Well one thing I always wondered , and never had a chance to ask Bob,
he was thick into the nuclear propulsion work when Project Pluto came
along:

http://www.merkle.com/pluto/pluto.html

Always wondered, he must have known about the 'crowbar' , if that also
did not give him the idea for the Interstellar Ramjet?


I'm sure he would have known about it, as the project was only
semi-classified.
(It even got mentioned in a kid's book I had on missiles when was in
around second or third grade, under the name "Longbow", described as a
nuclear powered cruise missile of unlimited range, though this may be a
confusion with another project, the Northrop WS-121B Longbow, that was a
follow-up design to the GAM-67 Crossbow).
I haven't been able to find any info on whether the SLAM influenced his
ideas, because, surprisingly, his 1960 paper on his fusion ramjet
concept ("Galactic Matter and Interstellar Flight") doesn't seem to be
available online.

Pat

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
There's another problem with a nuclear rocket engine - cost.
The engine itself isn't going to be cheap, and once used, the metal it is
made out of is going to be very radioactive, which may well rule out
re-use.

THAT is why we have government surplus sales. Surely you've read Heinlein's
The Rolling Stones!!!!!

Scott Hedrick wrote:
THAT is why we have government surplus sales. Surely you've read Heinlein's
The Rolling Stones!!!!!

Actually, I never did read that one.
By memory, these are the Heinlein books I've read:
The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.
Starship Troopers.
Rocket Ship Galileo.
Stranger In A Strange Land.
Methuselah's Children.
Time Enough for Love.
/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orphans_of_the_Sky/Orphans of the Sky.
I did read all of the "Tom Corbett-Space Cadet" books, which were
apparently based on his "Space Cadet" book.
Of all of those, I only remember parts of a few, because they weren't as
much fun as Asimov's Robots or Foundation series, which I thoroughly
enjoyed, as well as a lot of Clarke's books.
Asimov came up with Chaos Theory decades before it was described when
Arkady Darell went blundering through the universe and unintentionally
(at least as far as she knew) conquered The Mule, and saved humanity.
I haven't read that series in over thirty years, and I'm still sitting
here laughing so hard I'm crying remembering how well he wrote her
part. Dear God...on one hand, you have complete chaos and enslavement of
humanity throughout the galaxy, on the other hand you've got a fourteen
year old Galactic Valley Girl... and guess who's going to win?
The Wild Card strikes. :-D
You have the origin of Buffy, The Vampire Slayer and Legally Blonde
right there.
That's downright brilliant.
What a lot of people probably miss nowadays if the read the books is the
Hari Seldon's "psychohistory" is a brilliant parody of Karl Marx's
concept that that humanity society moves through inevitable historical
and economic evolution and that you can figure out where the world's
going with near mathematical precision in some way, and set a time frame
on its progress.
Oh, yes, the pre-quantum world view.... H.G. Wells at least figured out
that oddball coincidences and good and bad luck have a lot more to do
with human history than any overarching concept of Darwinian gradualism
when he wrote "The Shape Of Things To Come".
In that book, someone has food stuck between his teeth...and that leads
directly to WW II, like that first snowflake moving that starts a
avalanche.

Pat

On Oct 19, 6:41 pm, "Scott Hedrick" wrote:
"Pat Flannery" wrote in message

...

There's another problem with a nuclear rocket engine - cost.
The engine itself isn't going to be cheap, and once used, the metal it is
made out of is going to be very radioactive, which may well rule out
re-use.

THAT is why we have government surplus sales. Surely you've read Heinlein's
The Rolling Stones!!!!!

Boy after von Braun and Bonestell , Heinlein's 'juvies' had the
greatest influence on my life, and brought me to a career in
spaceflight.
Read em all, Star Man Jones is my favorite of all those juvies.
(Tho I must admit I think Heinlein wrote some better short stories
than novels, and , alas, I never cared much for his work after Star
Ship Troopers, tho I liked Moon is a Harsh Mistress (except for the
soap boxing!). Never was a fan of Stranger ... tho in his later
novels, now and then, he would show a glimmer of the old magic.

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
Asimov came up with Chaos Theory decades before it was described when
Arkady Darell went blundering through the universe and unintentionally (at
least as far as she knew) conquered The Mule, and saved humanity.
I haven't read that series in over thirty years, and I'm still sitting
here laughing so hard I'm crying remembering how well he wrote her part.
Dear God...on one hand, you have complete chaos and enslavement of
humanity throughout the galaxy, on the other hand you've got a fourteen
year old Galactic Valley Girl... and guess who's going to win?
The Wild Card strikes. :-D

Exactly- sometimes, one person isn't all that important. If Gutenburg hadn't
invented his press, someone else would have within a reasonably short time.
However, the more I read about George Washington, the more I understand just
how crucial he personally was to the American Revolution. Without him,
particularly if he had been killed during the Winter Camping Trip, the war
would have been lost. It was his personal character that kept the army
together in spite of being repeatedly **** on by the Continental Congress.

Murphy is on the losing side, while the conflict rages.

In that book, someone has food stuck between his teeth...and that leads
directly to WW II, like that first snowflake moving that starts a
avalanche.

Better than suggesting that something needs to be done with his lifestyle.
Ask a small dog where that leads.

"Al" wrote in message
ups.com...
tho in his later
novels, now and then, he would show a glimmer of the old magic.

Different names, slightly different settings, but essentially the same 2-3
characters doing the same things.