bountys on space artifacts?

does anyone know if there is a market for space artifacts?

say I (somehow) get a private space program going, grab a few dead
satellites and bring them to earth, is there a market for them? or should I
just go to EBay?

I wonder If I could grab some lunar artifacts, or would I be arrested for
defiling a sacred monument?

I think your proposal would be governed by international salvage laws.

R

Tater Schuld wrote:
does anyone know if there is a market for space artifacts?

say I (somehow) get a private space program going, grab a few dead
satellites and bring them to earth, is there a market for them? or should I
just go to EBay?

Going to Ebay would work, but Southeby's would probably do better.

I wonder If I could grab some lunar artifacts, or would I be arrested for
defiling a sacred monument?

Southeby's has already auctioned off some lunar rocks. Very tiny pieces,
though.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

In article ,
Tater Schuld wrote:
does anyone know if there is a market for space artifacts?

Yes, although so far it's very limited and tends to be a matter of
auctions rather than list prices.

say I (somehow) get a private space program going, grab a few dead
satellites and bring them to earth, is there a market for them?

Probably, but attempts to sell them will be rather hampered by the fact
that they're stolen goods. Dead they may be, but they still belong to
their original owners. You can't legally sell them without working out
an agreement with the owners first.

I wonder If I could grab some lunar artifacts, or would I be arrested for
defiling a sacred monument?

If by "artifacts" you're talking about spacecraft etc., see above -- you'd
be arrested, but for simple theft.

Selling lunar rocks and dust, on the other hand, is legal if you bring
them back yourself.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

In article . com,
Ron Miller wrote:
I think your proposal would be governed by international salvage laws.

Unfortunately, there is no salvage law in space. Someday there will have
to be, but right now there isn't. Maritime law doesn't automatically read
across, and in any case there are things in some of the space treaties
that would appear to be incompatible with a straightforward application of
maritime salvage law.

Note also that maritime salvage law prohibits salvage of government
property without permission of the government in question -- normal
salvage operations are largely limited to private property, because
permission to salvage government stuff is typically hard to get -- and
that salvaging something doesn't make you its owner unless the original
owner has *explicitly* abandoned it. (Turning off the lights doesn't
constitute abandonment.)
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

Tater Schuld wrote:
does anyone know if there is a market for space artifacts?

say I (somehow) get a private space program going, grab a few dead
satellites and bring them to earth, is there a market for them? or should
I
just go to EBay?

Probably better of cutting the satellites up and putting bits in acrylic as
it seems more popular, I currently have bits of Liberty Bell 7, Apollo
11,Apollo 13 and Skylab all in acrylic, and so do many other people !

I wonder If I could grab some lunar artifacts, or would I be arrested for
defiling a sacred monument?

I thought there was some plan or idea to have the lunar landing sites
designated as national historic monuments or something like that !

Adam

Henry Spencer wrote:


Note also that maritime salvage law prohibits salvage of government
property without permission of the government in question -- normal
salvage operations are largely limited to private property, because
permission to salvage government stuff is typically hard to get -- and
that salvaging something doesn't make you its owner unless the original
owner has *explicitly* abandoned it. (Turning off the lights doesn't
constitute abandonment.)

interesting detail: wouldn't the official closing of a
(science/telecom/military what have you) program that the satellite was
designed and used for constitute abandonment? Also, spent upper stages of
rockets (just for the argument's sake) would be abandoned by design, I
presume. I bet if someone can fetch that Saturn booster from Apollo 12
flight, it can be argued that it really was abandoned by the original
owner as a part of the original plan of using the craft. Additionally, the
Apollo program was officially closed back in 70s. What do you think?

One a side note I think bringing a satellite (or an upper rocket stage for
that matter) back to Earth would be a huge energy waste. Think of all the
rocket fuel spent on bringing the piece up there. Wouldn't it be
economically more reasonable to find use for parts and materials in space
instead? I guess, at least solar panels can rather easily be re-purposed,
and maybe much more than just solar panels.



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DA wrote:

interesting detail: wouldn't the official closing of a
(science/telecom/military what have you) program that the
satellite was designed and used for constitute abandonment?

No, Henry said "explicitly abandoned". That means an official
statement to the effect that "Nation x hereby abandons y".

Jim Davis

"DA" wrote in message
om...
interesting detail: wouldn't the official closing of a
(science/telecom/military what have you) program that the satellite was
designed and used for constitute abandonment?

No, because assets can be transferred to other programs.

Also, spent upper stages of
rockets (just for the argument's sake) would be abandoned by design, I
presume.

That's the sort of presumption that has bitten many a treasure hunter in the
ass.

I bet if someone can fetch that Saturn booster from Apollo 12
flight, it can be argued that it really was abandoned by the original
owner as a part of the original plan of using the craft.

It would be a losing argument, in no small part because it's government
property.

In article ,
DA wrote:
...salvaging something doesn't make you its owner unless the original
owner has *explicitly* abandoned it. (Turning off the lights doesn't
constitute abandonment.)

interesting detail: wouldn't the official closing of a
(science/telecom/military what have you) program that the satellite was
designed and used for constitute abandonment?

No, because it's not unknown for such spacecraft to be revived after their
official program was over.

Apart from the fact that sea law doesn't carry over into space -- the
space treaties are firm that if your country launched it, it is yours
forevermore and you remain responsible for any damage it does -- even in
sea law, the courts have generally held that abandonment requires an
explicit statement to that effect. Exceptions are few. The fact that the
original owner isn't using it at the moment does not, in itself, imply
abandonment.

Things deliberately thrown overboard to lighten ship *are* abandoned
(although similar things washed overboard accidentally in heavy seas are
not). So, provided we assume that space law eventually comes to resemble
sea law, a jettisoned payload fairing might well be held to have been
abandoned.

The status of a spent upper stage is a more subtle question, given that
they do sometimes remain under explicit control for a while after
separation, and that there have been proposals to exploit them as pressure
hulls etc. I predict that some lawyers are going to get rich settling
that one. :-)

The courts have *occasionally* held that long neglect and persistent
disregard of opportunities to retrieve something constitute implicit
abandonment. But I don't think you can read too much into that until
retrieval capabilities actually start to become available. And remember
that "occasionally they do" means "most of the time, they don't".

...I bet if someone can fetch that Saturn booster from Apollo 12
flight, it can be argued that it really was abandoned by the original
owner as a part of the original plan of using the craft.

Remember that for that one, there's an additional complication: the fact
that government vessels are off limits to commercial salvage.
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