MARS: "Bunny" & Reflective Sand

Greg Crinklaw wrote in news:104mua49qs9a1e4
@corp.supernews.com:

Oops forgot to PLONK you. Thanks for reminding me mate!


You mean about moving your monitor farther away from
your keyboard so you won't plonk your head when you post?

No problem.

Here's another tip for you...

When posting, first put your beer out of reach,
then you won't poke yourself in the eye with it.

(I vote we remove the prefix sci and replace it with alt
in the skeptic tank newsgroup.)

"Dan" wrote in message news:7UK2c.79258$ko6.423219@attbi_s02...
In article eLK2c.709126$JQ1.630636@pd7tw1no,
Rick Sobie wrote:
And you can attack me, all you want fool, call me names like children
do in playgrounds. You only expose yourself for what you are.

So I know you have heard this a thousand times, but "I know you are
but what am I"

My question was actually serious, and not meant to be
name-calling. I have no idea whether you are schizophrenic
or not. But I know that it's a real disease, and it causes
a lot of suffering.


So do you. In fact you are annoying me right now.
What makes you think sci.skeptic is a science newsgroup?

Are you wearing your pop bottle glasses right now?

Take a look at this. It will give you something scientific
to think about.
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/Th...tm#TychoImages

"Rick Sobie" wrote in message
news:LAK2c.736698$ts4.442645@pd7tw3no...

"tim gueguen" wrote in message
news:7yJ2c.735605$ts4.79826@pd7tw3no...

"Rick Sobie" wrote in message
news:vuJ2c.708087$JQ1.237950@pd7tw1no...

"Ian Goddard" wrote in message
...

Some people propose that the object seen here


http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/spotl..._20040304.html

photographed by the Mars Rover Opportunity and known as the "bunny"
may be evidence of Martian life. NASA's analysis posted at that page
concludes it was probably cloth torn from the Rover's landing
airbags.

NASA critics also claim that Opportunity was directed to drive over
the bunny in order to destroy it. I shall refute alleged evidence
for that incredible claim made by Richard Hoagland and others:

http://www.weirdload.com/nasa-shame.html
http://www.rense.com/general48/NASAA.HTM
http://www.enterprisemission.com/images/LAxpo/10.jpg



I'm sorry but the remainder of this article appears to be more
of the same bs which has been given to the people for years.

And we are simply not buying it. You ran over a creature from
another planet deliberately as afront to the people,

There are several things one may accuse Ian Goddard of being. A NASA
employee is not one of them.

Simply put, either you are with us, or you are with the Destructagons.

In other words you're a delusional paranoid

http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/Th...tm#TychoImages

As your webpage easily indicates.

tim gueguen 101867

"Ian Goddard" writes:

[Goddard]: In my opinion the white areas are obviously where sand has
been flattened by the weight of the Rover and is reflecting sunlight.
The actually interesting issue afoot is contained in the question: why
is that happening? Gilbert Levin attributes this reflectivity to water
freezing after being pressed out of the sand by Rover weight ... Levin's
hypothesis is interesting but I suspect it's wrong, otherwise such
abundant present water would have been easily detected and reported by
NASA.

Yes, you would readily think that a pair of rovers intended
to detect evidence of past water would certainly be able to detect water
right under the rover wheels. But apparently, that is not so.

I attended the NASA HQ press briefing on Tuesday, March 2,
where the big "Mars had water" announcement was officially made.
Afterwards, I posed some questions of my own to the panel. Relevant
here, I asked rover science team geologist John Grotzinger that very
question: "Can any of the rovers' instruments detect water or ice
present now in the rocks or soil?" To my astonishment, he answered with
an unqualified "no". -|Tom|-


Tom Van Flandern - Washington, DC - see our web site on replacement
astronomy research at http://metaresearch.org

"tim gueguen" wrote in message news:fCM2c.709959$JQ1.579753@pd7tw1no...


Simply put, either you are with us, or you are with the Destructagons.

In other words you're a delusional paranoid

AHAHA! As I suspected! You are one of THEM!!!!!

Getting back to reality...

I really must compliment the ESA on their brilliant work.
The way they have airbrushed over the glass tunnels,
well, you can hardly see them at all. Such workmanship!
And it blends in so well with the background as well.
No danger of those Yanks losing it and throwing their
babies out the window over this eh wot? !

http://www.esa.int/export/externals/...22_reull_p.jpg

Oh, but there was this little thing here.

In the center of this area where the tunnel seems to meet
some sort of complex. Lovely color, but what is that
in the very center which looks like a square block with
holes in it?
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/marsmatrixcenter.jpg

Tom Van Flandern wrote:
I attended the NASA HQ press briefing on Tuesday, March 2,
where the big "Mars had water" announcement was officially made.
Afterwards, I posed some questions of my own to the panel. Relevant
here, I asked rover science team geologist John Grotzinger that very
question: "Can any of the rovers' instruments detect water or ice
present now in the rocks or soil?" To my astonishment, he answered with
an unqualified "no". -|Tom|-

I heard your one question and the response. It was my impression that
your question was answered in the context of a previous response, which
was that water could only exist too far below the surface to be detected
by the Rover instruments.

--
Greg Crinklaw
Astronomical Software Developer
Cloudcroft, New Mexico, USA (33N, 106W, 2700m)

SkyTools Software for the Observer:
http://www.skyhound.com/cs.html

Skyhound Observing Pages:
http://www.skyhound.com/sh/skyhound.html

To reply remove spleen

"Tom Van Flandern" wrote in message
...
"Ian Goddard" writes:

[Goddard]: In my opinion the white areas are obviously where sand has
been flattened by the weight of the Rover and is reflecting sunlight.
The actually interesting issue afoot is contained in the question: why
is that happening? Gilbert Levin attributes this reflectivity to water
freezing after being pressed out of the sand by Rover weight ... Levin's
hypothesis is interesting but I suspect it's wrong, otherwise such
abundant present water would have been easily detected and reported by
NASA.

Yes, you would readily think that a pair of rovers intended
to detect evidence of past water would certainly be able to detect water
right under the rover wheels. But apparently, that is not so.

I attended the NASA HQ press briefing on Tuesday, March 2,
where the big "Mars had water" announcement was officially made.
Afterwards, I posed some questions of my own to the panel. Relevant
here, I asked rover science team geologist John Grotzinger that very
question: "Can any of the rovers' instruments detect water or ice
present now in the rocks or soil?" To my astonishment, he answered with
an unqualified "no". -|Tom|-


Tom Van Flandern - Washington, DC - see our web site on replacement
astronomy research at http://metaresearch.org

Have you ever been caught in a big lie Tom?

It is a very uncomfortable position to be in.

Can you imagine, how the ESA is laughing right now?

And I must admit, that I also have done my fair share of chuckling
over their predicament.

But at some point, just as Clinton did with the stained dress, they too
have to face the music. continuing the big lie, only prevents any progress
at all from going further.

Yes. There is intelligent life on Mars. Yes they are friendly.

So what is the big deal about anyway? How much longer does
JPL and whoever is behind this silliness expect they can continue
to hide their lies?

Examine the high res tif file of this region...
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/obj...objectid=34526

And you will see that it is an _obvious attempt to hide evidence
of life on Mars.

They were trying to be blatantly obvious. So people would know.

For instance how does one obtain such a clear image of Sojourner,
as seen here http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/obj...objectid=31029
and yet not be able to obtain a good closeup of this here in Reull Vallis?
http://www.members.shaw.ca/rsobie/marsmatrixcenter.jpg

And those poor Brits. How they set their hopes on Beagle. Only to
be so sadly disappointed. Well, it reminds me of a British comic
I listened to the other day, a transvestite, can't remember his name
not Dame Edna, at any rate, he was discussing the career councillors
at his school, and when they asked him what he wanted to be,
he said proudly "A shoe salesman!" Whereupon the councillor said,
"You're British, set your sights a little lower"

Yet they were right there. With the right stuff, but they just couldn't make it work.

Is it totally off-line now? Any chance of resurrecting it?

Or has it been operational all along and they just don't want to upset the Yanks?

In article , Rick Sobie
wrote:

Greg Crinklaw wrote in news:104mua49qs9a1e4
@corp.supernews.com:

Oops forgot to PLONK you. Thanks for reminding me mate!


You mean about moving your monitor farther away from
your keyboard so you won't plonk your head when you post?

No problem.

Rick Sobie again demonstrates his cluelessness.

Here's another tip for you...

When posting, first put your beer out of reach,
then you won't poke yourself in the eye with it.

(I vote we remove the prefix sci and replace it with alt
in the skeptic tank newsgroup.)

Request DENIED.


-=-=-=-=-

Official AFA-B Bully, Pest, and Gummint Disinformation Agent

On Sun, 7 Mar 2004, Greg Crinklaw wrote:
|Oops forgot to PLONK you. Thanks for reminding me mate!

Never tell people they are plonked; it motivates them to morph.

"Tom Van Flandern" wrote:

"Ian Goddard" writes:

[Goddard]: In my opinion the white areas are obviously where sand has
been flattened by the weight of the Rover and is reflecting sunlight.
The actually interesting issue afoot is contained in the question: why
is that happening? Gilbert Levin attributes this reflectivity to water
freezing after being pressed out of the sand by Rover weight ... Levin's
hypothesis is interesting but I suspect it's wrong, otherwise such
abundant present water would have been easily detected and reported by
NASA.

Yes, you would readily think that a pair of rovers intended
to detect evidence of past water would certainly be able to detect water
right under the rover wheels. But apparently, that is not so.

I attended the NASA HQ press briefing on Tuesday, March 2,
where the big "Mars had water" announcement was officially made.
Afterwards, I posed some questions of my own to the panel. Relevant
here, I asked rover science team geologist John Grotzinger that very
question: "Can any of the rovers' instruments detect water or ice
present now in the rocks or soil?" To my astonishment, he answered with
an unqualified "no". -|Tom|-


This article covers the surface-water, or brine, hypothesis:

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches...te_040219.html

stating: "In a press conference today, officials said the soil at
both locations could contain small amounts of water mixed with salt
in a brine that can exist in liquid form at very low temperatures."

It seems that Opportunity dug the hole to test the brine hypothesis.
An advantage it has over the glass-like-sand hypothesis I suggest is
its ability to explain the cohesive nature of the sand (see some good
images at the cited page). Why glass-like grains should also be
cohesive is something I could not explain; moreover, one might assume
the two characteristics (glass-like and cohesive) are contrary. And
if the glass-like grains had a rough shattered texture that allows
cohesive characteristics like that seen in Lunar regolith

http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4219/4219-209.jpg

that same rough texture would presumably scatter light, resulting
in diffuse rather than the specular reflectivity observed. For that
reason the brine hypothesis may have both greater explanatory scope
and lack the possible contradiction of cohesive glass-like granules.


Ian Goddard's Journal: http://iangoddard.net/journal.htm

"When we have lived any time, and have been accustomed to
the uniformity of nature, we acquire a general habit, by
which we always transfer the known to the unknown, and
conceive the latter to resemble the former." David Hume