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#21
August 20th 03, 11:53 PM
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ascertainment...
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#22
August 21st 03, 04:44 AM
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ascertainment...
"Pietro Sommavilla" wrote in message om... snip I apologise to you (I went in the Dolomite alps for a couple of days)..ok.. since you know about archaeology, can you explain to us how was possible for the native south-americans build the Kukulkan's pyramid (Chichen-itza) when they did not have technology ? Pietro, 1. Chichen-itza is in the Yucatan Penninsula of Mexico. It is not anywhere near South America. 2. The Maya were inheritors of a tradition of monumental building in stone that was about 2,000 years old when the pyramid you mention was built. They had plenty of technology; that technology was developed by Mesoamericans themselves over twenty centuries; and they needed no help from anyone, terrestrial or otherwise, to do so. 3. You assert (without providing any evidence whatsoever--which is your job, you know, providing evidence, if you do make assertions) that the 'native south-americans...did not have technology'. That is a stupid assertion, since humans have had technology in one form or another for over two million years. However, I suspect that you mean that the Maya who built Chichen-itza didn't have technology _adequate to the purpose of building such a complex and subtle monument_. In either case, you assume facts not in evidence, and ignore facts that _are_ in evidence. 4. If you have a shred of integrity, you'll either support your assertion; admit that you haven't thought it through well enough; or actually do the research on the Maya (and predecessor cultures in Mesoamerica) that would cure your ignorance. I hope you do at least one of those things. But I've been disappointed in you before, so I won't bet the farm on it. P.S. Hey !..you know, I caught your cousin in Bozen (South Tirol)we had a conversation about aliens and sci astro...nice guy. I haven't any cousins in the South Tyrol. I haven't been to any part of the Tyrol in nearly 40 years. Tom McDonald judoka_61
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#23
August 21st 03, 05:06 AM
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ascertainment...
"Pietro Sommavilla" wrote in message om... Cardinal Chunder wrote in message ... Pietro Sommavilla wrote: http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets judoka_61 You seem to be arguing from the point of incredulity: "I cannot understand how X (e.g. pyramids, lines, crystal skulls etc.) happened, therefore it must be space aliens" Sadly for you, such an argument is so painfully weak that it's a wonder that you can't recognise this for yourself without inflicting it on others. Just because YOU don't understand does not mean some wacky unsupported premise is right. Besides which, nothing you cited approaches anything remotely difficult to understand, either because it is not true, or because (for example the pictures) it could be accomplished by normal human beings using everyday materials and tools with no space aliens required at any stage. I can well imagine that in two thousand years from now there will be people making equally stupid assertions when they uncover the channel tunnel or some other modern structure. After all, we're *much* too stupid to dig a tunnel under the sea with such precision and such primitive tools. Ladies and Gentlemen... ...and the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..? judoka_61 Pietro, The Native Americans you're talking about are the Late Classic Maya, who were the inheritors of a regional cultural tradition of large and increasingly complex stone buildings that was 2,000 years old by the time they built the pyramid you mention. They were not primative in any way; in fact, their material and intellectual culture would have equalled or surpassed that of Europe at the same time (ca. 1000 AD). You may be ignorant of American archaeology; in another post you seemed to think Chichen Itza was located in South America, when it is in fact located in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico--North America for most, Mesoamerica for the more technically inclined. If you are ignorant, then your ignorance can be cured by reading real archaeology works. I suggest _A Forest of Kings: The Untold Story of the Maya_, 1990, by Linda Shele and David Freidel, New York, Quill (an affiliate of William Morrow and Company, Inc.), ISBN # 0-688-11204-8. If you are not willing to cure your ignorance, and wish willfully to remain ignorant, then you're a punk, and not at all interested in learning things. You constantly tell us that you are a seeker--one looking for answers. Seek, then, and don't continue to make these elementary errors. Tom McDonald
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#24
August 21st 03, 05:08 AM
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ascertainment...
"Pietro Sommavilla" wrote in message om... wrote in message . com... http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets Agreed, and anyone who will except the ravings of Nancy or anyone else on the internet over the results of an experiment that they did with thier own hands is not someone who's statements about anything can be trusted in any way. I agree. It takes more than a lack of knowledge about science to believe Nancy's fantacies. It takes a lack of general human common sense. Earthling Earl Colby Pottinger Listen.. forget about Nancy-Zetas.. I did not trust her ..as a matter of fact I wrote(subject  roveit!2003-03-04) see.. Maybe, this pole shift is not a "magnetic pole shift" which happens often, but rather a continental shift... this could mean crustal displacement....ect..ect.. ================================================== ========================== ==== Martin Rees an Astrophysicist said that the earth went trough five cycle of exstintion allready..so why I should not think about some previous Pole Shift in our dear planet earth ? judoka_61 & Siberian Mammoth Pietro, The previous extinctions were not brought on by a "pole shift"; they have been rigorously studied and, while there are always loose ends to tie up, none of them lead to a pole shift. Tom McDonald
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#25
August 21st 03, 05:47 AM
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ascertainment...
"Pietro Sommavilla" wrote in message om... (Pietro Sommavilla) wrote in message . com... Cardinal Chunder wrote in message ... Pietro Sommavilla wrote: http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets judoka_61 You seem to be arguing from the point of incredulity: "I cannot understand how X (e.g. pyramids, lines, crystal skulls etc.) happened, therefore it must be space aliens" Sadly for you, such an argument is so painfully weak that it's a wonder that you can't recognise this for yourself without inflicting it on others. Just because YOU don't understand does not mean some wacky unsupported premise is right. Besides which, nothing you cited approaches anything remotely difficult to understand, either because it is not true, or because (for example the pictures) it could be accomplished by normal human beings using everyday materials and tools with no space aliens required at any stage. I can well imagine that in two thousand years from now there will be people making equally stupid assertions when they uncover the channel tunnel or some other modern structure. After all, we're *much* too stupid to dig a tunnel under the sea with such precision and such primitive tools. Ladies and Gentlemen... ...the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..? Think about it "Cardinal"..they build city like;Machu Pichu,Perfect costrution like the pyramid of Kukulkan,and huge signs that we can notice only from the sky...that's (as you realize) need a lot of science & technology... do you agree ? Pietro, Yes. ok..can you explain then why C. Colombo when discover the new continent found people half naked,with no tecnology ? Columbus never set foot in Mesoamerica; he never saw the high culture of the Aztecs and other city-states of Mexico. But Cortez did--and he was both impressed and fearful. The Spanish only conquered the Aztecs by making alliances with others of the advanced city-states in Mexico; and even then, it took years to complete the conquest of the Aztecs. The Maya, who you seem to think too thick to build sophisticated pyramids, held off the Conquistadors for a century; and even then, maintained most of their culture. Jeez, Pietro, read some of the relevant history. And, just for ****s and giggles, try studying some American geography. You put Chichen Itza in South America, for God's sake; and you imagine that the Native Americans Columbus saw were typical of _all_ Native Americans of the period. Ignorance. But ignorance is curable by study; can you do it? Will you do it, Seeker? they even did not use wheels... Wheels do not a civilization make. They used wheels on toys; but, without large draft animals like horses or oxen, wheels are of very limited utility. They used rivers and lakes extensively for travel; and much of the terrain in the areas of high culture were inimicable to wheeled transport. read..Cardinal read the logs of F.Pizarro or the logs of the several Spanish-Conquistadores ..no technology at all ! Ignorance. Read Bernal Diaz's, _The Conquest of New Spain_. Read something of the archaeology of Mesoamerica in real archaeology books. Take a look at the historical sequence of buildings, raised fields (chinampas), trade routes, domestication and cultivation of many crops, religious and philosophical development (again, not the New Age crap you seem to be stuck in, but real works of scholarship and science), art, mathematics, astronomy, calendrics, hydrolic engineering, etc. The conquistadors had very good reasons to pretend that their victims were inferior; and, since they won, they got to tell the story their way. The fact is that when Cortez first saw Tenochtitlan, it was larger, cleaner, more orderly, and more prosperous than any European city of the time. This business of half-naked primatives is foolish, wrong-headed, and you must be either ignorant or a racist if you keep believing that after you've been directed where to go to correct your ignorance. The Spanish kill almost all of them..because they was..primitive people.. No, the Spaniards' Indian allies did most of the direct killing of the Aztecs. Disease did by far the most killing, as the Spanish brought European diseases that the Americans weren't used to. Hell, measles (mostly a nusance to Europeans) killed Americans by droves. Smallpox wiped out whole populations. Technology had nothing to do with that. "Primative" doesn't enter into it at all. The Spanish could not understand why the native-americans build Huge city with road,and water-channel, why people with all that knowledge about astronomy was living in tha middle of the jungle ..naked..why they left their town ..Cardinal ? why ? would you agree that someone else use astronomy ? Who are you talking about? If you mean the Nazca, they didn't live in the middle of a jungle and they weren't naked. would you agree.that someone else made those huge signal that we can see only from the sky ? No. The Nazca made them; and nearly all of them are visible while standing right in the middle of them; those that are larger could be seen from a low hill. The whole business of "only seen from the sky" is an artifact of their modern "discovery" by someone flying over them in an airplane, and romanticising and mystifying their discovery by pretending that the poor ignorant native couldn't possibly have made them. But they did. ...would you agree that someone.. departed from that continent leaving all that stuff and that those indigenous humans could not use from their welfare ..'cause they was ..ignorant about everything ? Why would anyone agree with that? Your premise is totally incorrect, and is not supported by the real archaeology and anthropology that has been done on the topics. You have read the woo-woo press; they are in it for the money, or to grind an axe. Not to learn the truth. No you will not...maybe you will say..those people got a virus that make them forget about their science and about their technology...com'on..just say this.. Why? Humans did all the great things you think they couldn't have done; modern science has shown that to be true; and only your woo-woo writers like Von Daniken and Hancock spin the yarn you've wrapped yourself in. For a Seeker of Truth, you are really poor at seeking truth. Ladies & Gentlemen..I rest my case..its up to you now.. You have made no case. You've spewed lots of New Age crap, and not supported any of it (except a pitiful tangential reference to Pizzaro). You have to provide evidence to make your case, evidence that others can read and evaluate. If you rest your case now, in any court in the world you'd lose before the jury had a chance to deliberate--your case would be thrown out by the judge for being totally inadequate. Tom McDonald judoka_61
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#26
August 21st 03, 05:49 AM
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ascertainment...
"Earl Colby Pottinger" wrote in message ... Cardinal Chunder : Pietro Sommavilla wrote: Ladies and Gentlemen... ...and the point is...How the primitive native americans could build a such a perfect-costruction like the pyramid of Kukulkan ...Hello..? judoka_61 Because these 'primitive' Indians were not a bunch of knuckle dragging morons? They were a sophisticated people with a written language, a counting system, plus the artisans, priests, mathematicians, administrators and labour neccessary to construct a stone building. And did they start with a massive pyramid, or build up to it through progressive steps? The archeological record makes clear it was the latter, something you'd learn if you bothered to spend even 30 minutes researching something before opening your yap. As I'm feeling generous, I'll provide you with a few links to get you going, though I doubt you have the brains to read or accept what they say. http://www.thehallofmaat.com/ http://www.intersurf.com/~chalcedony/wildside.shtml http://www.ontalink.com/archaeology/maya/ http://www.ontalink.com/archaeology/aztecs/index.html After all, why look at that dry research about boring stuff people find in the ground or from actually studying the ruins when you can let your imagination fill in the massive gaps with space aliens? Please notice this is just an excuse by Pietro to direct attention away from the fact that he has never admitted that Nancy lied to him, or that he has never admitted that Planet X never existed. Earl Colby Pottinger Earl, Yup. Ol' Pietro is of the 'baffle 'em with bull****' school. Problem is that there are just too damn many bull**** detectors in the ng. Tom McDonald -- I make public email sent to me! Hydrogen Peroxide Rockets, OpenBeos, SerialTransfer 3.0, RAMDISK, BoatBuilding, DIY TabletPC. What happened to the time? http://webhome.idirect.com/~earlcp
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#27
August 21st 03, 05:54 AM
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ascertainment...
"Pietro Sommavilla" wrote in message om... Dear..Earl Colby Pottinger as I told you before,I did not trust the Zetas because:1)The lied more than one time. 2)I've read different sorces about them and why they lie. Ok ?.. meanwhile I've read also about some kind of people that are trying to decive too .. you're not better than the Zetas...period so again.. why the Mayan abandoned their great city for no know reason ? Who build those perfect costrutions ? is maybe because the Mayan did not have the tecnology to make a big city function ? Pietro, Some Maya (NOT Mayan) cities were abandoned because of warfare. The rest were abandoned as a result of a long drought that made it impossible to feed a large, concentrated urban population. You're reading outdated information if you think the Maya collapse is a mystery. The Maya built the 'perfect constructions'; although some of them were built using Toltecs during a certain period. They had the technology and the governing ability to make big cities function. They didn't have the technology to make it rain. Do you? If not, are you a half-naked primative? Tom McDonald http://www.geocities.com/judoka_61/Sock_Puppets judoka_61
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#28
August 21st 03, 10:50 AM
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ascertainment...
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#29
August 21st 03, 11:10 AM
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ascertainment...
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#30
August 21st 03, 11:19 AM
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ascertainment...
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