so, this is supposed to be a SAA group???

After nearly a year being away from the net and one of my favorite ng, I
have returned only to be shocked at the subject matter currently being
discussed. Since when did SAA decide to change course and concentrate more
on religion and other OT subjects? Why aren't you folks using your filters
so the OT stuff doesn't show up? You used to. Unfortunate. It looks like
my return here will be a short one indeed.

BJ

Bill Bjourno wrote:
After nearly a year being away from the net and one of my favorite ng, I
have returned only to be shocked at the subject matter currently being
discussed. Since when did SAA decide to change course and concentrate more
on religion and other OT subjects? Why aren't you folks using your filters
so the OT stuff doesn't show up? You used to. Unfortunate. It looks like
my return here will be a short one indeed.

BJ




Hi.

No, it is still the same, just a change in topics.
But you are right, I don't understand how quite a few
really smart people here, just want to wallow around
with the kooks. Just set your filter and things get
better quicker. The more ruthless you are with it, the
better it gets. Shame to miss out on some good stuff,
but some of these smart people I have to filter because
they are convinced of their cause in arguing with said
kooks. Worse, they have to quote the kooks posts, which
is why they got filtered. Even Roland Christian gets
sucked in by them on a daily basis.......
(I just can't filter him yet tho)

But there are still a few of us old timers here who hang
out and glean useful info from those FEW who choose
not to rise to the bait the kooks offer, and ignore it.
Every now and then I do try and contribute here
So please don't leave, we need all the help we can get.



--
AM

http://sctuser.home.comcast.net

http://www.novac.com

"Bill Bjourno" wrote in message
...
After nearly a year being away from the net and one of my favorite ng, I
have returned only to be shocked at the subject matter currently being
discussed. Since when did SAA decide to change course and concentrate
more on religion and other OT subjects? Why aren't you folks using your
filters so the OT stuff doesn't show up? You used to. Unfortunate. It
looks like my return here will be a short one indeed.

BJ

Unfortunately, that's the way of usenet in the "open" internet age. You can
either filter it yourself, or you can go to a web based forum where someone
else filters it for you.

I wish you would do the former and become a contributor here. You had a
chance to bring the signal up and start an actual conversation about
astronomy, but instead you started a new thread, just to complain. Think
about it.

As for my own participation in some of the borderline off topic discussions
(evolution vs. creation is never really off topic in a science group), I am
also interested in the affect of astronomy (and science in general) on my
own psychology, philosophy, and of course religious views. Discussion is
good.

Hope that's not a bother.

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 08:28:36 -0400, "Bill Bjourno"
wrote:

After nearly a year being away from the net and one of my favorite ng, I
have returned only to be shocked at the subject matter currently being
discussed. Since when did SAA decide to change course and concentrate more
on religion and other OT subjects? Why aren't you folks using your filters
so the OT stuff doesn't show up? You used to. Unfortunate. It looks like
my return here will be a short one indeed.

Do you use some sort of primitive newsreader that doesn't maintain
threads? Because the fact is, most of the topics discussed here recently
are highly topical. There are just two or three threads that are not. If
the topics discussed there don't interest you, ignore them and don't
participate.

I just don't get the attitude that "I don't like that thread, so I'm
going away". There's still plenty of opportunity for astronomical
discussion around here.
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 15:16:56 GMT, Sam Wormley
wrote:

This is an excellent opportunity, Bill, for you to start some amateur
astronomy threads. Regards, Sam

As someone who has been on this group since its start, I'd have to say
there is less non-topical stuff now than in the past. What's changed is
that there's even less topical material. So if anybody is to blame for
the shift, it isn't those posting non-astronomical material!

So like you say- anybody who wants to support the original mission of
this group should be contributing. That's all it takes.
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On Mar 16, 8:16*am, Sam Wormley wrote:
Bill Bjourno wrote:
After nearly a year being away from the net and one of my favorite ng, I
have returned only to be shocked at the subject matter currently being
discussed. *Since when did SAA decide to change course and concentrate more
on religion and other OT subjects? *Why aren't you folks using your filters
so the OT stuff doesn't show up? *You used to. *Unfortunate. *It looks like
my return here will be a short one indeed.

BJ

* *This is an excellent opportunity, Bill, for you to start some amateur
* *astronomy threads. Regards, Sam

Just my two cents:

I have been away for about 3 or 4 years but am giving S.A.A. another
try. The Usenet, and S.A.A. in particular, has never had the best
signal to noise ratio, it seems to be that it is about like it was 3
or 4 years ago, quite a few off topic threads that I don't read and
some interesting threads...

As far as this thread goes, I am not sure quite which category it fits
into.

Jon

wrote:

I have been away for about 3 or 4 years but am giving S.A.A. another
try.

Oddly enough you, and others, have been sorely missing. Good to hear from
you.
So stick around. I promise not to argue "what's the best telescope".
smile.
-Steve Paul

As someone who has been on this group since its start, I'd have to say
there is less non-topical stuff now than in the past. What's changed is
that there's even less topical material. So if anybody is to blame for
the shift, it isn't those posting non-astronomical material!

I can't say I've been here from the beginning, but I've been in and out of
this ng off and on since about 1996. For me it's been more reading than
posting, since I long ago became weary of contributing to "what's the best
telescope" threads.

I haven't done a formal survey of recent messages, but I agree with the view
that there's less astronomy here than formerly. The percentage of posts (of
total postings) and the persistence of those pushing fundamentalist religion
and those with -- um -- unique ideas about science and astronomy have
increased. "Nancy" pretty much disappeared after her failed "pole-shift" of
2003, but others have taken her place, including one current particularly
persistent and annoying kook. I'm often tempted to killfile him (I've only
ever done it to one person in Usenet, in a different ng), but I keep hoping
he'll just get weary and go away.
--
Curtis Croulet
Temecula, California
33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W

Bill Bjourno wrote:
After nearly a year being away from the net and one of my favorite ng, I
have returned only to be shocked at the subject matter currently being
discussed. Since when did SAA decide to change course and concentrate more
on religion and other OT subjects? Why aren't you folks using your filters
so the OT stuff doesn't show up? You used to. Unfortunate. It looks like
my return here will be a short one indeed.

BJ

Hello, Bill.

As a relatively new member, why don't I suggest that we all take
your message as the occasion for a resolve to post or reply in
topical threads, and to ignore distractions. I don't know how
to filter posts with the tin reader, but I do know how not to
press the key to respond in the newsgroup.

Personally I feel that off-topic threads do paint an unfortunate
picture of this newsgroup for potential newcomers (or returnees)
who wonder just how much it has to do with observational
astronomy.

More positively, as others have stated, I see your message as a
good occasion for a resolve by any of us so inclined to contribute
more on-topic articles. Recently it's been cloudy around here, but
I hope that by March 21-28 or so it clears up so that I can try
a Hodierna Southern Marathon.

With many thanks,

Margo Schulter

On Mar 16, 5:46*pm, Margo Schulter wrote:
Bill Bjourno wrote:
After nearly a year being away from the net and one of my favorite ng, I
have returned only to be shocked at the subject matter currently being
discussed. *Since when did SAA decide to change course and concentrate more
on religion and other OT subjects? *Why aren't you folks using your filters
so the OT stuff doesn't show up? *You used to. *Unfortunate. *It looks like
my return here will be a short one indeed.

BJ

Hello, Bill.

As a relatively new member, why don't I suggest that we all take
your message as the occasion for a resolve to post or reply in
topical threads, and to ignore distractions. I don't know how
to filter posts with the tin reader, but I do know how not to
press the key to respond in the newsgroup.

Personally I feel that off-topic threads do paint an unfortunate
picture of this newsgroup for potential newcomers (or returnees)
who wonder just how much it has to do with observational
astronomy.

More positively, as others have stated, I see your message as a
good occasion for a resolve by any of us so inclined to contribute
more on-topic articles. Recently it's been cloudy around here, but
I hope that by March 21-28 or so it clears up so that I can try
a Hodierna Southern Marathon.

With many thanks,

Margo Schulter


Most here are just followers of Flamsteed's Ra/Dec framework which
does not entitle anyone to consider themselves 'astronomers' when they
go beyond the useful observational convenience that it is even though
the poor mathematicians swear by it.Before clocks and telescopes,your
kind would have come under the term practical/mechanical astronomy and
indeed even today none of you profess any interest in putting images
in context.

You can beg topical discussions but you ain't going to get any,at
least none that will last beyond 5 or 6 replies unless it is about
complaining how poor the quality of the ng is or .The contemplative/
intutive intelligence astronomy of Kepler and Copernicus is a much
different order that the silly guesswork of empircists ( the
"inferior tribunal" as Kepler calls them) and much higher in scale
that the practical/mechanical astronomy which simply collects data -


"To set down in books the apparent paths of the planets [vias
planetarum apparentes] and the record of their motions is especially
the task of the practical and mechanical part of astronomy; to
discover their true and genuine path [vias vero veras et genuinas]
is . . .the task of contemplative astronomy; while to say by what
circle and lines correct images of those true motions may be depicted
on paper is the concern of the inferior tribunal of geometers" Kepler

The last time their was an SAA class re-union with calls for input,it
fizzled out within a few days for obvious reasons,maybe not to you who
have your own simple agenda,but because men simply cannot live with
imaging without putting them into context.That has been the trend for
the last decade if you check the volume posting history for this
group.

Go ahead,all that imaging out there begging for proper interpretation
for all sorts of terrestrial purposes,with plenty of room for you and
your simple constellation observing at nightime with your binoculars
or what have you.