Beagle ... alas

In article , OM wrote:
On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 08:31:25 GMT, Scott Lowther
wrote:

Jeez. Just a few hours, and the probe has already surrendered.

How much of it was made in France?

...The only thing I can say about this apparent failure is that I
honestly hope this is a hard slap in the face to Europe as a whole to
wake them up to the fact that "Faster/Better/Cheaper" does not work,
and they need to quit being ****ing cheap and SPEND WHAT'S REQUIRED!

I believe the ESA and, indeed, the project team are quite aware the
lander was underbudgeted; remember, this was pretty much a rush job.
Pillinger, IIRC, has gone on record asbeing unwilling to quote the
eventual cost of the lander, simply because it would set a dangerous
precedent if he tries to do it again.

FBC may well be flawed, but it can't conjure money up from nowhere.
Beagle wasn't a major program where the budget got cut; it was a flight
of opportunity where the money got gathered from wherever possible.
Worth nothing the difference...

--
-Andrew Gray

In article ,
OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote:

...The only thing I can say about this apparent failure is that I
honestly hope this is a hard slap in the face to Europe as a whole to
wake them up to the fact that "Faster/Better/Cheaper" does not work,
and they need to quit being ****ing cheap and SPEND WHAT'S REQUIRED!

My memory fails me ... but wasn't faster/better/cheaper some
kind of American slogan? Ford? GM? Some crap manufacturer, wasn't
it?

Nick

"Nicholas Fitzpatrick" skrev i meddelandet
...
In article ,
OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote:

...The only thing I can say about this apparent failure is that I
honestly hope this is a hard slap in the face to Europe as a whole to
wake them up to the fact that "Faster/Better/Cheaper" does not work,
and they need to quit being ****ing cheap and SPEND WHAT'S REQUIRED!

My memory fails me ... but wasn't faster/better/cheaper some
kind of American slogan? Ford? GM? Some crap manufacturer, wasn't
it?

Some people claim that it is old Chairman Mao that stated "More (or Greater),
Better, Faster, Cheaper" during the Great Leap Forward. Looking in the mirror,
those ideas were ended up big problems for China and has this far been of
varying success for the space community.
However, there is nothing saying that the principle is wrong if implemented
wisely (see rk's post earlier)

--
th

On or about 25 Dec 2003 16:35:35 GMT, Andrew Gray
made the sensational claim that:
We'll see if Jodrell can find a carrier signal tonight.

Because I'm always wrong when I say things like this:

Beagle2 went *SPLAT* in the orange sand.
--
This is a siggy | To E-mail, do note | This space is for rent
It's properly formatted | who you mean to reply-to | Inquire within if you
No person, none, care | and it will reach me | Would like your ad here

David Sander wrote in message ...
Reports coming in saying it's not responding, that NASA craft are
hearing nothing.

The party's not over yet - there's another window of opportunity coming
up in a few hours, but the fact it's not responding when expected
doesn't bode well.

*sigh*


David

Gee guys, don't you ever read mission timelines before rushing to the
headlines? So far there has been only 2 pass by Mars Odyssey's, one of
which was while it was not clear if the solar panel deployment
sequence would be done with, preventing sending a signal, and the
other while the probe was scheduled to "rest" for the night in a power
saver mode. Next opportunity after Odyssey's passes was this evening
at 2245 UTC... We're still Wednesday... So enjoy Christmas cakes
everyone and just have some faith.

Faith is something hard to have nowadays, and I'm not even talking
about religious faith, but even personnal faith in our abilities is
getting fainter with each glitches the spage program encounters.

We'll see how it goes tonight near 3:00 EST.

P.S. And how about the possibility that it's Odyssey which screwed the
signal relay? Has it ever been tested so far?

...The only thing I can say about this apparent failure is that I
honestly hope this is a hard slap in the face to Europe as a whole to
wake them up to the fact that "Faster/Better/Cheaper" does not work,
and they need to quit being ****ing cheap and SPEND WHAT'S REQUIRED!

I was *really* hoping Beagle 2 would make it. I really, really was.




Everyone was. And it still *might*.

These missions, as I'm sure you know, need to work in clockwork
precision and choreography. Already there has been a hitch.

What can we say? Entropy is nature's way, not order. Firing a little
probe with no propulsion system from another probe, in motion, at a
remote location 11 months away, is a tall order and prone to failure.

Yes, FBC does not work. Spend the proper amount of money on missions
and TEST, TEST, TEST. When you are done testing, then test some more.
Then test a little more, and then test some more for the hell of it.


Waiting for the next contact opportunity,
-joshua

*If* Beagle2 remains silent, then it would mean that two of the three
spacecraft in the current Mars wave (Kozumi, Beagle2, Mars Express
orbiter) failed. This is in line with the failure rate of Mars
Missions (roughly two-thirds).

I suppose the above offers some hope for the weeks ahead, when we have
four more spacecraft (two Mars Opportunity orbiters and landers)
arriving.

I'm quite confident that at least one Mars lander will be successful.
And of course we have Stardust in a couple of weeks as well.



Regards,
-joshua

Oops - I goofed. There will be no Mars Opportunity orbiters. The
mission includes landers only.



-joshua





(joshua) wrote in message . com...
*If* Beagle2 remains silent, then it would mean that two of the three
spacecraft in the current Mars wave (Kozumi, Beagle2, Mars Express
orbiter) failed. This is in line with the failure rate of Mars
Missions (roughly two-thirds).

I suppose the above offers some hope for the weeks ahead, when we have
four more spacecraft (two Mars Opportunity orbiters and landers)
arriving.

I'm quite confident that at least one Mars lander will be successful.
And of course we have Stardust in a couple of weeks as well.



Regards,
-joshua

In article ,
OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote:
...The only thing I can say about this apparent failure is that I
honestly hope this is a hard slap in the face to Europe as a whole to
wake them up to the fact that "Faster/Better/Cheaper" does not work...

Note that Mars Express, which successfully entered Mars orbit, is also a
F/B/C project, by ESA standards. (ESA finds it much harder than NASA to
do such things.)

And F/B/C works just fine when done right. (E.g., see my signature.)
But even for a F/B/C project, there is such a thing as Not Enough Money.
Beagle 2 has always been a distinctly high-risk mission, because of its
running-on-fumes budget... but the alternative was no lander on Mars
Express at all.

I was *really* hoping Beagle 2 would make it. I really, really was.

Don't write it off just yet.
--
MOST launched 30 June; science observations running | Henry Spencer
since Oct; first surprises seen; papers pending. |

We'll see how it goes tonight near 3:00 EST.


Oups, time conversion mishap on my part... But bad news is that Jodrel
couldn't acquire the carrier signal. Now it's looking grim.

Ah well, Mars scores another one...At least Express is in orbit!