Venus is not too hot to touch with the Ovglove

On Jul 7, 2:47 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on Sat, 07 Jul 2007 16:23:47 -0000
om:





On Jul 7, 8:45 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on Fri, 06 Jul 2007 18:02:46 -0000
.com:

On Jul 6, 10:18 am, Randy Poe wrote:
On Jul 6, 1:14 pm, BradGuth wrote:

On May 29, 6:47 am, BradGuth wrote:

At losing 20.5 w/m2, Venus is still not the least bit too hot to touch
with the Ovglove, much less of any problem for a composite rigid
airship.

Comparing Earth/Venus is not even a fair game, as to any half smart ET
village idiot, the planet Venus wins every time.

Too bad that Cambridge and the like are too mainstream snookered and
otherwise dumbfounded past the point of no return, as to know about
such things.

Too bad that ADOBE PhotoShop or the likes of digital photographic
enlargement alternatives that are even better, is still so taboo/
nondisclosure rated.

Too bad them pesky laws of physics and of whatever's the best
available science can't function off-world. I obviously didn't know
that such regular laws of physics and of whatever science were so
unusually terrestrial limited.
-BradGuth
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell

On Apr 4, 5:07 pm, wrote:

As long as you don't run yourself out of ice cold beer and pizza, I
don't see all that much of a problem.

As long as you've got way more spare/renewable energy at your disposal
than you could possibly know what to do with, and having that nifty
thermal suit made by Ovglove, where's the big-ass insurmountable
problem with taking that hot-foot of a toasty stroll onVenus?

CO2--CO/O2 is not hardly a technical problem, hasn't been for a good
decade or more.

Pure H2O as easily extracted from those somewhat cool nighttime acidic
clouds (above the S8 layer) is simply another mission positive win-
win.

The 65 kg/m3 worth of buoyancy as working along with the 90.5% gravity
is offering a couple of other nifty factors that'll work rather well
for your composite rigid airship (just like on behalf of those
Venusian composite rigid airships).

If you're any damn good at PhotoShop, goto:http://guthvenus.tripod.com/http://g...om/gv-town.htm
or best you start with your very own look-see at the following
official image site:http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/hi...c115s095_1.gif

The 36 look per pixel of that GIF image format starts getting
interesting at being 3X resampled, and then giving it all the best
PhotoShop or whatever else you can muster, although the original GIF
1:1 image was actually good enough for my PhotoShop configured brain
to deductively interpret upon what's most likely artificial as opposed
to what's perfectly natural. 36 looks per pixel is offering a lot of
truthworthy image data to start with, so it's a good one to stick with
rather than dealing with their individual 75 meter/pixel versions as
having combined but four looks per pixel.

Don't try to process the entire image unless you've got one heck of a
nifty PC or MAC. Try clipping out only the small portion of the total
image that's roughly a third up from the bottom and just to the right
of center, as we're talking about utilizing less than 10% or perhaps
even as little as 5% of that primary GIF image, and to process upon
just that much shouldn't traumatise your memory or performance PC or
MAC.

I'll review each of your results, that by rights should become a whole
lot better than mine. Obviously anyone can over/under force those
PhotoShop refinements, well past the point of no return, so don't do
that. My extremely old version of PhotoShop can't accomplish much
better than 8X resampling without losing ground, and besides, we don't
actually require much better than 6X for most others to see most
clearly what I'd interpreted from the original 1:1 format.

Thanks once again to 'tomcat' for also having posted this updated page
ofVenusimages.http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/th...humbnails.html

It's image No.17 from the top left being the one that so happens to
include the robust, sizable and somewhat complex community of 'GUTHVenus'.
"Lava channels, Lo Shen Valles,Venusfrom Magellan Cycle 1"http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/mgn_c115s095_1.htm...
-BradGuth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Venus is not at all too hot to touch with the Ovglove. If our SR-71
can survive 1200 degree F, then where's the big ass insurmountable
technical problem with surviving Venus within our composite rigid
airship?

This is going to go right over your head, but it's an answer to
your question anyway.

Your computer has a cooling fan in it. Because of that, components
inside the computer can get very hot (let's say 180 F) and
yet not cause the computer's disk or other heat-sensitive
components to cook.

Yet if the entire computer were in a 180 F room, the cooling
fan would be useless and the computer would cook.

Why do you think that is true?

- Randy- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

With unlimited local energy (how many spare teraWatts would you
like?); we could hold the future Winter Olympics on Venus, and then
some.

Yes, we could. The question is where this energy would come from.

Of atmospheric pressure and thermal differentials. Think vertical,
and you'll have more spare joules of continous/renewable energy than
you'll ever know what to do with.

I would need to see the details. Seems to me similar techniques could
be used here on Earth, although the amount of extractable energy would
by necessity be less, since we have lower pressures and temperatures at
play here.

One simply needs to run the physics math, in order to realize how
freaking much spare/surplus energy that's 100+% renewable while on
Venus. A Earth application of the same isn't hardly worth 0.1% of
what can be easily extracted from the Venusian atmosphere's vertical
attributes if given the same structural limitations.


What's insurmountable when there's such unlimited and otherwise 100%
renewable energy that's already there to behold?

Did you miss out on physics-duh-101?

BTW, if I were every bit as dumbfounded and otherwise as naysay
snookered to death as yourself, I would not try using a standard PC on
Venus, although within the cool as you like composite rigid airship or
much less our extremely cool POOF City at VL2 isn't any problem
whatsoever.

As long as the heat can be removed later.

Why of course, as CO2 and S8 are actually rather good elements for
accomplishing that task of heat extraction. However, while situated
at VL2 is where POOF City could use a little extra internal heat of
our PCs running those hot little CPUs.

It might be more effective to simply situate a nearby adjustable mirror,
one that is outside the Venusian shadow, to direct radiant energy onto
the POOF.

A remote mirror (possibly tethered) is actually a perfectly good idea.

Otherwise, obtaining roughly 500 btu per living soul, plus a likely
other 1500 btu from whatever else is running in order to accommodate
that individual is making for a budget of 2000 btu per person, times
10 and you've got 20,000 btu of internal POOF heat to deal with.


Two might be employed for symmetry/redundancy.

I was thinking of 5 POOFs (one for beer and pizza) as representing
this outpost/gateway city at VL2.


Ever heard of a cold cathode vacuume tube? It seems they can be made
extremely small, obviously energy efficient and good for perhaps
better than twice whatever that Venusian environment has to share.
That cold cathode has a 1600 year half life to boot.

http://www.vintagecalculators.com/ht..._dekatron.html

I'm not sure what you mean by "extremely small" -- in the case of the
Anita Mk8 they appear to be about the same size as the selenium
rectifiers. They can never be as small as UV-fabricated MOSFETs on a
single silicon chip, though one might contemplate some interesting
methods of building a chamber through layering techniques. (The
UV-fabricated MOSFETS currently use etching, which won't quite work.)

There's no volume or mass restrictions onborad our robotic rigid
airships, and there's especially no limitations of any volume or of
whatever added mass onboard any such fully manned rigid airship.

For getting our surface probes onto that geothermally roasting deck,
we'll need extra mass in order to offset the thick atmospheric soup of
having 65 kg/m3 worth of buoyancy, as well as for the 90.5% gravity
making it even better yet.

Just use the glove. Should be sufficient. :-)

The Ovglove alone is not quite sufficient unless you've got that large
ice cold beer in each gloved hand.
-
Brad Guth

On Jul 6, 12:07 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Jul 6, 10:14 am, BradGuth wrote:





On May 29, 6:47 am, BradGuth wrote:

At losing 20.5 w/m2, Venus is still not the least bit too hot to touch
with the Ovglove, much less of any problem for a composite rigid
airship.

Comparing Earth/Venus is not even a fair game, as to any half smart ET
village idiot, the planet Venus wins every time.

Too bad that Cambridge and the like are too mainstream snookered and
otherwise dumbfounded past the point of no return, as to know about
such things.

Too bad that ADOBE PhotoShop or the likes of digital photographic
enlargement alternatives that are even better, is still so taboo/
nondisclosure rated.

Too bad them pesky laws of physics and of whatever's the best
available science can't function off-world. I obviously didn't know
that such regular laws of physics and of whatever science were so
unusually terrestrial limited.
-BradGuth
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell

On Apr 4, 5:07 pm, wrote:

As long as you don't run yourself out of ice cold beer and pizza, I
don't see all that much of a problem.

As long as you've got way more spare/renewable energy at your disposal
than you could possibly know what to do with, and having that nifty
thermal suit made by Ovglove, where's the big-ass insurmountable
problem with taking that hot-foot of a toasty stroll onVenus?

CO2--CO/O2 is not hardly a technical problem, hasn't been for a good
decade or more.

Pure H2O as easily extracted from those somewhat cool nighttime acidic
clouds (above the S8 layer) is simply another mission positive win-
win.

The 65 kg/m3 worth of buoyancy as working along with the 90.5% gravity
is offering a couple of other nifty factors that'll work rather well
for your composite rigid airship (just like on behalf of those
Venusian composite rigid airships).

If you're any damn good at PhotoShop, goto:http://guthvenus.tripod.com/http://g...om/gv-town.htm
or best you start with your very own look-see at the following
official image site:http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/hi...c115s095_1.gif

The 36 look per pixel of that GIF image format starts getting
interesting at being 3X resampled, and then giving it all the best
PhotoShop or whatever else you can muster, although the original GIF
1:1 image was actually good enough for my PhotoShop configured brain
to deductively interpret upon what's most likely artificial as opposed
to what's perfectly natural. 36 looks per pixel is offering a lot of
truthworthy image data to start with, so it's a good one to stick with
rather than dealing with their individual 75 meter/pixel versions as
having combined but four looks per pixel.

Don't try to process the entire image unless you've got one heck of a
nifty PC or MAC. Try clipping out only the small portion of the total
image that's roughly a third up from the bottom and just to the right
of center, as we're talking about utilizing less than 10% or perhaps
even as little as 5% of that primary GIF image, and to process upon
just that much shouldn't traumatise your memory or performance PC or
MAC.

I'll review each of your results, that by rights should become a whole
lot better than mine. Obviously anyone can over/under force those
PhotoShop refinements, well past the point of no return, so don't do
that. My extremely old version of PhotoShop can't accomplish much
better than 8X resampling without losing ground, and besides, we don't
actually require much better than 6X for most others to see most
clearly what I'd interpreted from the original 1:1 format.

Thanks once again to 'tomcat' for also having posted this updated page
ofVenusimages.http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/th...humbnails.html

It's image No.17 from the top left being the one that so happens to
include the robust, sizable and somewhat complex community of 'GUTHVenus'.
"Lava channels, Lo Shen Valles,Venusfrom Magellan Cycle 1"http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/mgn_c115s095_1.htm...
-BradGuth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Venus is not at all too hot to touch with the Ovglove. If our SR-71
can survive 1200 degree F, then where's the big ass insurmountable
technical problem with surviving Venus within our composite rigid
airship?

That's right folks, there has been and may still be other intelligent
life existing/coexisting on Venus, and silly old me, I still think
it's wrong of us for having suppressed or otherwise banished Muslim
oil away from the global market, or that of our having merely taken
such oil away from Muslims, and also having taken nearly a million of
their mostly innocent lives in the process seems a tadbit not so silly
to me.

If we simply can't be honest to ourselves (admitting to our often
faith-based cultivated arrogance, greed, bigotry and subsequent
mistakes), then any hope of accomplishing good relationships with
other species of ETs or even others of our own kind is unlikely, if
not impossible when our very own history is so terribly skewed in
favor of directly benefitting those minority faith-based groups that
insist upon remaining in charge of our private parts.

I mean to keep asking, how totally dumb and dumber do you think other
intelligent life really is?

Do you folks think we're ever going to be able to snooker those
intelligent ETs that simply have to exist/coexist within our universe
and even quite possibly within our own solar system?

If you were such an ET arriving on Earth for the first time; how long
would it take you to discover what a total fiasco farce this 98.5%
fluid world of such over-populated souls, was actually based upon most
anything hocus-pocus or just plain old lies upon lies. I mean, how
totally dumbfounded would you have to be, not to realize that the
worse of our faith-based populations of this screwed up planet have
been such horrific losers, in almost every way imaginable to boot.

Considering what natural resources and the time we've had to work
with, just look at what has been raped out of mother Earth, and of the
subsequent pollutions and soot that are each subsequently adding their
insult to the global warming injury, that's otherwise mostly caused by
way of our moon's gravity and of its nearby orbital tidal energy
that's unavoidably keeping those portions of our 98.5% fluid earth on
the move (inside and out).

BTW, I'll gladly change my tune as soon as the regular laws of physics
apply, and/or whenever the best available science is telling us
otherwise.

My having to uncover the truth about the sick and perverted history of
humanity is just a little extra icing on the cake, though apparently
necessary in order to fully appreciate as to why and of where all of
the naysayism flak is coming from.
-
BradGuth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The naysayism swarm mindset of this GOOGLE/NOVA Usenet from Zion hell
on Earth is nearly all Zionism orchestrated from start to finish, with
a few other faith-based cults picking up the rear (meaning as official
Zion pooper scoopers).

For a perfectly good example of what's technically doable:
With unlimited local energy (how many spare teraWatts would you folks
like?); as such we could hold the future of our Winter Olympics on
Venus, and then some.

What's all that insurmountable when there's such unlimited and
otherwise 100% renewable energy that's already there to behold?

Did each of you silly naysay folks entirely miss out on your doctorate
of physics-duh-101?

BTW, if I were every bit as dumbfounded and otherwise as naysay
snookered to death as yourself, as such I would not try using the
likes of any standard PC on Venus, although within the cool as you
like composite rigid airship or much less our extremely cool POOF City
at VL2 isn't any problem whatsoever.

Have any of you rusemasters of naysayism ever heard of the cold
cathode vacuume tube? It seems they can be made extremely small,
obviously energy efficient and good for perhaps better than twice
whatever that Venusian environment has to share. That cold cathode
has a 1600 year half life to boot.

There's almost no limits as to the structural byouancy derived basis
of hauling capacity of our composite rigid airship, as well as
offering lots of internal volume of cooled habitat to spare. (no
shortages of ice cold beer and frozen pizza on this mission)

Of locally produced thermal insulation, that's also every bit as
structural as you'd like to make it, is clearly not the least bit
insurmountable of such a local product of basalt obtaining R256/m, or
even as good as R1024/m.
-BradGuth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Since our moon's L1 remains as so unusually taboo/nondisclosure rated
(as well as for perfectly good gamma and hard-Xray reasons), whereas
Venus L2 as our next space depot/gateway home away from home is
actually offering a fairly cool location that we simply need to
develop, thus claim before it's taken by others having ulterior
motives. Here's one of my new and somewhat word improved rants
that'll help justify our motivation for establishing POOF City at VL2.

Of local ETs being highly intelligent and wise has nothing whatsoever
to do with such other folks having developed RF/microwave
communications, satellites or much less having space travel
capability. On Earth, many of the most survival intelligent and
otherwise extremely wise folks we have are typically without need of
such accomplishments. Plants, animals and even insects seem to have
an efficient swarm like collective intelligence, that's in many ways
having proven as superior to anything evolved into humanity. Our
extremely frail and too often flawed DNA is a good example of where
local evolution has not been sufficiently kind, especially since so
much of our environment is failing us in ways we and our frail DNA are
not going to last the ultimate test of time as our magnetosphere
continually fades away, the moon stays much too close with us, our
essential cache ice continually melts, oceans rise and the sun keeps
getting less passive, whereas more of the lethal cosmic, moon and
solar energy combined is getting through our badly polluted atmosphere
that's getting thinner and/or less anti-radiation robust, along with
our orbiting mascon keeping Earth's interior and surface environment
physically motivated into causing far more heat than anything humanly
contributed, is going to combine upon us like a rather nasty tonne of
falling bricks, making our long term survival a true test of our
supposed intelligence as a collective species that's otherwise running
itself out of multiple natural resources at an alarming and too often
bloody rate.

The nearest other planet that offers any significant potential of
accommodating our frail DNA and that of our silly mindset that keeps
thinking we're such all-knowing wizards, is Venus. However, since
each of our warm and fuzzy naysayers and obviously the entire borg
like collective of our local swarm intelligence worth of official
usenet rusemasters, which continually manage to naysay as they forget
mentioning that Venus actually has teratonnes (possibly hundreds of
teratonnes) worth of spare water, as efficiently sequestered within
them thar acidic clouds, and once again, that's not even including all
the ice cold beer as having been imported by or on behalf of those
smart enough to survive as locals, or otherwise as deployed ETs (we
humans would soon become those ETs coexisting on Venus, or at least
starting off at VL2 POOF City and only visiting that toasty
environment as safely within our composite rigid airships).

Is it ever polite to ask; how little h2o is actually necessary for
sustaining an advanced form of intelligent carbon life? (I'm thinking
exoskeletal)

If there's not too many Venusian souls in need of cold beer, whereas
the existing geothermal made toasty and atmospheric pressure
differential as representing the best of those local energy resources
of Venus are going to more than provide for their needs. Personally,
I would not expect to uncover a Venus population of millions, whereas
more than likely a few thousand could become the magic number, down to
a few hundred individuals as homestead or mining place-savers,
especially of finding only a few living souls if most of their really
hard work is getting accomplished via robots (as it should be).

As for their water consumption, I'm into thinking of at most not more
than a liter per day, as perhaps their making due with a 6pack if not
otherwise sucking down two of those extra large and fortified beers
worth of h2o per 100 kg Venusian per 24 hours, whereas this robust
exoskeletal Venusian isn't hardly going to sweat, especially not at
nearly 100 bar, and most certainly if I were you, I likely wouldn't
dare pull it out in order **** off the back porch because, the Venus
surface environment is in fact downright toasty, and upon average
still getting rid of 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 256 fold greater geothermal
energy than Earth, and Venus doesn't even have a moon to thank).

Of such Venusian locals without hardly if any exoskeletal sweat
glands, you'd think a liter of beer might outlast 100 hours per hard
working 100 kg Venusian. So, where's the actual demand for all of
that h2o? (that's not ever going anywhere except back up into those
acidic clouds, where it can once again be easily extracted and
distilled into pure h2o on demand). At least that's entirely within
the regular laws of physics, and otherwise based upon the best
available science that can be replicated by as little as what most any
village idiot could manage.

..01 liter/hr of h2o or beer per 100 kg exoskeletal soul seems rather
doable, don't you think?

Of course, we frail humans might need to consume as much as a liter of
ice cold beer per hour.

Of rather easily obtaining that initial fresh supply of h2o from those
acidic clouds, the making of such into beer, and of getting that beer
cold and keeping it cold is going to demand energy, but once again
there's absolutely no such shortage of said energy as long as you're
on Venus, and the task of Venus cloud sucking might even be an ongoing
local sport, much like extreme skydiving or deep sea diving is here on
Earth.

BTW, I have all sorts of nifty exoskeletal jokes or puns to share and
share alike, and I could even toss in a healthy terrestrial share of
our local racism for good measure. I mean to suggest via pun, what
could possibly be better for our Zion war like economy than
perpetrating a war of worlds, whereas every 19 months we exchange as
much nasty flak as each of us can muster, and we could certainly start
this off by way of tossing all of our spent nuclear fuel and most of
anything else that's bothering us (such as our cache of VX) at Venus,
or we could just send them the likes of our resident LLPOF warlord(GW
Bush) and his collective of brown-nosed minions as our version of a
lethal sleeper cell.
-
Brad Guth

On May 12, 12:52 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:07 pm, wrote:





As long as you don't run yourself out of ice cold beer and pizza, I
don't see all that much of a problem.

As long as you've got way more spare/renewable energy at your disposal
than you could possibly know what to do with, and having that nifty
thermal suit made by Ovglove, where's the big-ass insurmountable
problem with taking that hot-foot of a toasty stroll on Venus?

CO2--CO/O2 is not hardly a technical problem, hasn't been for a good
decade or more.

Pure H2O as easily extracted from those somewhat cool nighttime acidic
clouds (above the S8 layer) is simply another mission positive win-
win.

The 65 kg/m3 worth of buoyancy as working along with the 90.5% gravity
is offering a couple of other nifty factors that'll work rather well
for your composite rigid airship (just like on behalf of those
Venusian composite rigid airships).

If you're any damn good at PhotoShop, goto:http://guthvenus.tripod.com/http://g...om/gv-town.htm
or best you start with your very own look-see at the following
official image site:http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/hi...c115s095_1.gif

The 36 look per pixel of that GIF image format starts getting
interesting at being 3X resampled, and then giving it all the best
PhotoShop or whatever else you can muster, although the original GIF
1:1 image was actually good enough for my PhotoShop configured brain
to deductively interpret upon what's most likely artificial as opposed
to what's perfectly natural. 36 looks per pixel is offering a lot of
truthworthy image data to start with, so it's a good one to stick with
rather than dealing with their individual 75 meter/pixel versions as
having combined but four looks per pixel.

Don't try to process the entire image unless you've got one heck of a
nifty PC or MAC. Try clipping out only the small portion of the total
image that's roughly a third up from the bottom and just to the right
of center, as we're talking about utilizing less than 10% or perhaps
even as little as 5% of that primary GIF image, and to process upon
just that much shouldn't traumatise your memory or performance PC or
MAC.

I'll review each of your results, that by rights should become a whole
lot better than mine. Obviously anyone can over/under force those
PhotoShop refinements, well past the point of no return, so don't do
that. My extremely old version of PhotoShop can't accomplish much
better than 8X resampling without losing ground, and besides, we don't
actually require much better than 6X for most others to see most
clearly what I'd interpreted from the original 1:1 format.

Thanks once again to 'tomcat' for also having posted this updated page
of Venus images.http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/th...humbnails.html

It's image No.17 from the top left being the one that so happens to
include the robust, sizable and somewhat complex community of 'GUTH
Venus'.
"Lava channels, Lo Shen Valles, Venus from Magellan Cycle 1"http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/mgn_c115s095_1.htm...
-
Brad Guth

In spite of the honest to God worth of this topic, notice how all the
usual gauntlet via brown-nosed clowns of Usenet's status quoism keep
popping out of those cute little MI/NSA faith-based clown cars.

I wonder if any of those smart little brown-nosed clowns (especially
of those toting them extra Third Reich smart Jewish clowns) are
sufficiently Venus proof?

Notice how whenever Venus/VL2 or that of our moon's L1 are being in
any way talked about, and especially of anything related to Sirius or
godforbid of those pesky off-world ETs, that it's all out usenet
WWIII, and somehow I'm their poster bad-guy.

Perhaps the kind and supposedly smart folks from Cambridge UK can
somehow manage to contribute a little something of topic worth, as to
exactly how cool is VL2 (clue; it's raw station-keeping halo orbit is
not likely as cool as Mars @593 w/m2).

With some math refinements:
Venus at 2654 w/m2 and of VL2 being roughly 2640 w/m2 -75% due to
solar isolation = 660 w/m2.

At best VL2 solar isolation being worth 85%, as such we're talking as
little as 396 w/m2, which by rights can therefore become a cooler
environment than any tropics of Mars by day, except if our POOF City
were coated as being that of a sufficient dark gray (totally black if
need be), whereas such would therefore absorb as much of the solar
insolation energy as you'd care to deal with.

The normal VL2 situation or environment is actually a halo orbit
allowing as much solar insolation as you'd care to work with, or as
little insolation as 400 w/m2 if keeping POOF City at VL2 x0/y0/z0,
that is unless moving everything inward with their counter mass
deployed out a bit further than VL2's 1,014,290 km, which can thereby
accomplish as much as an extremely cool 95% isolation.

Of total solar isolation can only be achieved by way of a tether
deployed science package, exactly as though lowered away from VL2. Of
course, all of this is well within spec of what has been doable for
the past decade, if not longer (technically it's much easier for
accomplishing our frail DNA at VL2 than of our moon's L1).

If you folks have access to a PC or MAC accommodated CAD program, or
whatever 2D/3D interactive simulator, as such you shouldn't have any
problems whatsoever with getting this picture of POOF City at VL2 into
your mindset, that is unless that mindset of yours is forever stuck in
naysay mode or worse yet in some hocus-pocus cesspool mode that
includes whatever folks walking moonsuit butt naked on our physically
dark and highly reactive moon.
-
Brad Guth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The original and full context of this topic "Venus is not too hot to
touch with the Ovglove" is in cam.misc
http://groups.google.com/group/cam.m...2883f520?hl=en

Since our moon's L1 remains as so unusually taboo/nondisclosure rated
(as well as for perfectly good gamma and hard-Xray reasons), whereas
Venus L2 represents our next space depot/gateway home away from home
is actually offering a fairly cool and radiation survivable location
that we simply need to develop, thus claim before it's taken by others
having ulterior motives. Here's one of my new and somewhat word
improved rants that'll help justify our motivation for establishing
POOF City at VL2.

Of local ETs being highly intelligent and wise has nothing whatsoever
to do with such other folks having developed RF/microwave
communications, satellites or much less having space travel
capability. On Earth, many of the most survival intelligent and
otherwise extremely wise folks we have are typically without need of
such accomplishments. Plants, animals and even insects seem to have
an efficient swarm like collective intelligence, that's in many ways
having proven as superior to anything evolved into humanity. Our
extremely frail and too often flawed DNA is a good example of where
local evolution has not been sufficiently kind, especially since so
much of our environment is failing us in ways we and our frail DNA are
not going to last the ultimate test of time as our magnetosphere
continually fades away, the moon stays much too close with us, our
essential cache ice continually melts, oceans rise and the sun keeps
getting less passive, whereas more of the lethal cosmic, moon and
solar energy combined is getting through our badly polluted atmosphere
that's getting thinner and/or less anti-radiation robust, along with
our orbiting mascon keeping Earth's interior and surface environment
physically motivated into causing far more heat than anything humanly
contributed, is going to combine upon us like a rather nasty tonne of
falling bricks, making our long term survival a true test of our
supposed intelligence as a collective species that's otherwise running
itself out of multiple natural resources at an alarming and too often
bloody rate.

The nearest other planet that offers any significant potential of
accommodating our frail DNA and that of our silly mindset that keeps
thinking we're such all-knowing wizards, is Venus. However, since
each of our warm and fuzzy naysayers and obviously the entire borg
like collective of our local swarm intelligence worth of official
usenet rusemasters, which continually manage to naysay as they forget
mentioning that Venus actually has teratonnes (possibly hundreds of
teratonnes) worth of spare water, as efficiently sequestered within
them thar acidic clouds, and once again, that's not even including all
the ice cold beer as having been imported by or on behalf of those
smart enough to survive as locals, or otherwise as deployed ETs (we
humans would soon become those ETs coexisting on Venus, or at least
starting off at VL2 POOF City and only visiting that toasty
environment as safely within our composite rigid airships).

Is it ever polite to ask; how little h2o is actually necessary for
sustaining an advanced form of intelligent carbon life? (I'm thinking
exoskeletal)

If there's not too many Venusian souls in need of cold beer, whereas
the existing geothermal made toasty and atmospheric pressure
differential as representing the best of those local energy resources
of Venus are going to more than provide for their needs. Personally,
I would not expect to uncover a Venus population of millions, whereas
more than likely a few thousand could become the magic number, down to
a few hundred individuals as homestead or mining place-savers,
especially of finding only a few living souls if most of their really
hard work is getting accomplished via robots (as it should be).

As for their water consumption, I'm into thinking of at most not more
than a liter per day, as perhaps their making due with a 6pack if not
otherwise sucking down two of those extra large and fortified beers
worth of h2o per 100 kg Venusian per 24 hours, whereas this robust
exoskeletal Venusian isn't hardly going to sweat, especially not at
nearly 100 bar, and most certainly if I were you, I likely wouldn't
dare pull it out in order **** off the back porch because, the Venus
surface environment is in fact downright toasty, and upon average
still getting rid of 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 256 fold greater geothermal
energy than Earth, and Venus doesn't even have a moon to thank).

Of such Venusian locals without hardly if any exoskeletal sweat
glands, you'd think a liter of beer might outlast 100 hours per hard
working 100 kg Venusian. So, where's the actual demand for all of
that h2o? (that's not ever going anywhere except back up into those
acidic clouds, where it can once again be easily extracted and
distilled into pure h2o on demand). At least that's entirely within
the regular laws of physics, and otherwise based upon the best
available science that can be replicated by as little as what most any
village idiot could manage.

..01 liter/hr of h2o or beer per 100 kg exoskeletal soul seems rather
doable, don't you think?

Of course, we frail humans might need to consume as much as a liter of
ice cold beer per hour.

Of rather easily obtaining that initial fresh supply of h2o from those
acidic clouds, the making of such into beer, and of getting that beer
cold and keeping it cold is going to demand energy, but once again
there's absolutely no such shortage of said energy as long as you're
on Venus, and the task of Venus cloud sucking might even be an ongoing
local sport, much like extreme skydiving or deep sea diving is here on
Earth.

BTW, I have all sorts of nifty exoskeletal jokes or puns to share and
share alike, and I could even toss in a healthy terrestrial share of
our local racism for good measure. I mean to suggest via pun, what
could possibly be better for our Zion war like economy than
perpetrating a war of worlds, whereas every 19 months we exchange as
much nasty flak as each of us can muster, and we could certainly start
this off by way of tossing all of our spent nuclear fuel and most of
anything else that's bothering us (such as our cache of VX) at Venus,
or we could just send them the likes of our resident LLPOF warlord(GW
Bush) and his collective of brown-nosed minions as our version of a
lethal sleeper cell (we could put the likes of Usama bin Laden to
shame).
-
Brad Guth

On Jul 7, 11:25 am, John Griffin wrote:
BradGuth wrote:
The original and full context of this topic "Venus is not too
hot to touch with the Ovglove" is in cam.misc
http://groups.google.com/group/cam.m...m/thread/45f9b
8fc2883f520?hl=en

Since each of our warm and fuzzy naysayers and obviously our
local swarm intelligence worth of official rusemasters
continually manage to forget mentioning that Venus actually
has teratonnes (possibly hundreds of teratonnes) worth of
spare water, as efficiently sequestered within them thar
acidic clouds, and once again that's not even including all
the ice cold beer imported by or on behalf of those smart
enough to survive as locals or as deployed ETs.

Is it ever polite to ask; how little h2o is actually
necessary for sustaining an advanced form of intelligent
carbon life? (think exoskeletal)

If there's not too many Venusian souls in need of cold beer,
whereas the existing geothermal toasty and atmosphertic
pressure differential as energy resources of Venus are going
to more than provide for their needs. Personally, I wouldn't
expect to uncover a Venus population of millions, whereas more
than likely a few thousand could become the magic number, down
to a few hundred as homestead or mining place savers,
especially of few souls if most of their really hard work is
accomplished via robots.

I'm thinking of at most not more than a liter, as perhaps
their making do with a 6pack if not otherwise sucking down two
of those extra large and fortified beers worth of h2o per 100
kg Venusian per 24 hours, whereas this exoskeletal Venusian
isn't hardly going to sweat, especially not at nearly 100 bar,
and you likely wouldn't dare pull it out in order **** off the
back porch.

Without hardly any sweat glands, you'd think a liter of beer
might outlast 100 hours per hard working 100 kg Venusian. So,
where's the actual demand for all of that h2o? (that's not
ever going anywhere except back up into those acidic clouds,
where it can once again be easily extracted on demand). At
least that's entirely within the regular laws of physics, and
otherwise based upon the best available science.

.01 liter/hr of h2o or beer per 100 kg exoskeletal soul seems
rather doable, don't you think?

Of rather easily obtaining that initial fresh supply of h2o
from those acidic clouds, the making of such into beer, and of
getting that beer cold and keeping it cold is going to demand
energy, but once again there's absolutely no such shortage of
said energy as long as you're on Venus, and of Venus cloud
sucking might even be an ongoing sport, much like skydiving is
here on Earth. -
BradGuth

As usual, you just don't get it. Anything that functions in
Venus's atmosphere is going to be hotter throughout than the
"air." You did bring up an amusing image, though. The most
common cause of death among Venus beetles with total exoskeletons
and a bit of water would be steam explosion. If your 100 bar is
correct, that would be one hell of a bang, so maybe death by
flying beetle debris would be more common.

Just for the heck of it, please do some arithmetic to see if I'm
right. Would 900-degree water boil into a 100-bar fluid?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Wow, your conditional laws of physics are impressive.

Yes John, plain old water would most likely still boil on most
locations of Venus, though not every such location is going to be as
hot as the next, and the likes of h2o2 and a good number of other
substances would not so easily if ever boil off.

BTW. I wouldn't go there in your Jewish buff, as obviously you would.
-
Brad Guth

On Jul 8, 10:25 am, BradGuth wrote:
On May 12, 12:52 pm, BradGuth wrote:





On Apr 4, 5:07 pm, wrote:

As long as you don't run yourself out of ice cold beer and pizza, I
don't see all that much of a problem.

As long as you've got way more spare/renewable energy at your disposal
than you could possibly know what to do with, and having that nifty
thermal suit made by Ovglove, where's the big-ass insurmountable
problem with taking that hot-foot of a toasty stroll on Venus?

CO2--CO/O2 is not hardly a technical problem, hasn't been for a good
decade or more.

Pure H2O as easily extracted from those somewhat cool nighttime acidic
clouds (above the S8 layer) is simply another mission positive win-
win.

The 65 kg/m3 worth of buoyancy as working along with the 90.5% gravity
is offering a couple of other nifty factors that'll work rather well
for your composite rigid airship (just like on behalf of those
Venusian composite rigid airships).

If you're any damn good at PhotoShop, goto:http://guthvenus.tripod.com/http://g...om/gv-town.htm
or best you start with your very own look-see at the following
official image site:http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/hi...c115s095_1.gif

The 36 look per pixel of that GIF image format starts getting
interesting at being 3X resampled, and then giving it all the best
PhotoShop or whatever else you can muster, although the original GIF
1:1 image was actually good enough for my PhotoShop configured brain
to deductively interpret upon what's most likely artificial as opposed
to what's perfectly natural. 36 looks per pixel is offering a lot of
truthworthy image data to start with, so it's a good one to stick with
rather than dealing with their individual 75 meter/pixel versions as
having combined but four looks per pixel.

Don't try to process the entire image unless you've got one heck of a
nifty PC or MAC. Try clipping out only the small portion of the total
image that's roughly a third up from the bottom and just to the right
of center, as we're talking about utilizing less than 10% or perhaps
even as little as 5% of that primary GIF image, and to process upon
just that much shouldn't traumatise your memory or performance PC or
MAC.

I'll review each of your results, that by rights should become a whole
lot better than mine. Obviously anyone can over/under force those
PhotoShop refinements, well past the point of no return, so don't do
that. My extremely old version of PhotoShop can't accomplish much
better than 8X resampling without losing ground, and besides, we don't
actually require much better than 6X for most others to see most
clearly what I'd interpreted from the original 1:1 format.

Thanks once again to 'tomcat' for also having posted this updated page
of Venus images.http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/th...humbnails.html

It's image No.17 from the top left being the one that so happens to
include the robust, sizable and somewhat complex community of 'GUTH
Venus'.
"Lava channels, Lo Shen Valles, Venus from Magellan Cycle 1"http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/mgn_c115s095_1.htm...
-
Brad Guth

In spite of the honest to God worth of this topic, notice how all the
usual gauntlet via brown-nosed clowns of Usenet's status quoism keep
popping out of those cute little MI/NSA faith-based clown cars.

I wonder if any of those smart little brown-nosed clowns (especially
of those toting them extra Third Reich smart Jewish clowns) are
sufficiently Venus proof?

Notice how whenever Venus/VL2 or that of our moon's L1 are being in
any way talked about, and especially of anything related to Sirius or
godforbid of those pesky off-world ETs, that it's all out usenet
WWIII, and somehow I'm their poster bad-guy.

Perhaps the kind and supposedly smart folks from Cambridge UK can
somehow manage to contribute a little something of topic worth, as to
exactly how cool is VL2 (clue; it's raw station-keeping halo orbit is
not likely as cool as Mars @593 w/m2).

With some math refinements:
Venus at 2654 w/m2 and of VL2 being roughly 2640 w/m2 -75% due to
solar isolation = 660 w/m2.

At best VL2 solar isolation being worth 85%, as such we're talking as
little as 396 w/m2, which by rights can therefore become a cooler
environment than any tropics of Mars by day, except if our POOF City
were coated as being that of a sufficient dark gray (totally black if
need be), whereas such would therefore absorb as much of the solar
insolation energy as you'd care to deal with.

The normal VL2 situation or environment is actually a halo orbit
allowing as much solar insolation as you'd care to work with, or as
little insolation as 400 w/m2 if keeping POOF City at VL2 x0/y0/z0,
that is unless moving everything inward with their counter mass
deployed out a bit further than VL2's 1,014,290 km, which can thereby
accomplish as much as an extremely cool 95% isolation.

Of total solar isolation can only be achieved by way of a tether
deployed science package, exactly as though lowered away from VL2. Of
course, all of this is well within spec of what has been doable for
the past decade, if not longer (technically it's much easier for
accomplishing our frail DNA at VL2 than of our moon's L1).

If you folks have access to a PC or MAC accommodated CAD program, or
whatever 2D/3D interactive simulator, as such you shouldn't have any
problems whatsoever with getting this picture of POOF City at VL2 into
your mindset, that is unless that mindset of yours is forever stuck in
naysay mode or worse yet in some hocus-pocus cesspool mode that
includes whatever folks walking moonsuit butt naked on our physically
dark and highly reactive moon.
-
Brad Guth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The original and full context of this topic "Venus is not too hot to
touch with the Ovglove" is in cam.mischttp://groups.google.com/group/cam.misc/browse_frm/thread/45f9b8fc288...

Since our moon's L1 remains as so unusually taboo/nondisclosure rated
(as well as for perfectly good gamma and hard-Xray reasons), whereas
Venus L2 represents our next space depot/gateway home away from home
is actually offering a fairly cool and radiation survivable location
that we simply need to develop, thus claim before it's taken by others
having ulterior motives. Here's one of my new and somewhat word
improved rants that'll help justify our motivation for establishing
POOF City at VL2.

Of local ETs being highly intelligent and wise has nothing whatsoever
to do with such other folks having developed RF/microwave
communications, satellites or much less having space travel
capability. On Earth, many of the most survival intelligent and
otherwise extremely wise folks we have are typically without need of
such accomplishments. Plants, animals and even insects seem to have
an efficient swarm like collective intelligence, that's in many ways
having proven as superior to anything evolved into humanity. Our
extremely frail and too often flawed DNA is a good example of where
local evolution has not been sufficiently kind, especially since so
much of our environment is failing us in ways we and our frail DNA are
not going to last the ultimate test of time as our magnetosphere
continually fades away, the moon stays much too close with us, our
essential cache ice continually melts, oceans rise and the sun keeps
getting less passive, whereas more of the lethal cosmic, moon and
solar energy combined is getting through our badly polluted atmosphere
that's getting thinner and/or less anti-radiation robust, along with
our orbiting mascon keeping Earth's interior and surface environment
physically motivated into causing far more heat than anything humanly
contributed, is going to combine upon us like a rather nasty tonne of
falling bricks, making our long term survival a true test of our
supposed intelligence as a collective species that's otherwise running
itself out of multiple natural resources at an alarming and too often
bloody rate.

The nearest other planet that offers any significant potential of
accommodating our frail DNA and that of our silly mindset that keeps
thinking we're such all-knowing wizards, is Venus. However, since
each of our warm and fuzzy naysayers and obviously the entire borg
like collective of our local swarm intelligence worth of official
usenet rusemasters, which continually manage to naysay as they forget
mentioning that Venus actually has teratonnes (possibly hundreds of
teratonnes) worth of spare water, as efficiently sequestered within
them thar acidic clouds, and once again, that's not even including all
the ice cold beer as having been imported by or on behalf of those
smart enough to survive as locals, or otherwise as deployed ETs (we
humans would soon become those ETs coexisting on Venus, or at least
starting off at VL2 POOF City and only visiting that toasty
environment as safely within our composite rigid airships).

Is it ever polite to ask; how little h2o is actually necessary for
sustaining an advanced form of intelligent carbon life? (I'm thinking
exoskeletal)

If there's not too many Venusian souls in need of cold beer, whereas
the existing geothermal made toasty and atmospheric pressure
differential as representing the best of those local energy resources
of Venus are going to more than provide for their needs. Personally,
I would not expect to uncover a Venus population of millions, whereas
more than likely a few thousand could become the magic number, down to
a few hundred individuals as homestead or mining place-savers,
especially of finding only a few living souls if most of their really
hard work is getting accomplished via robots (as it should be).
...

read more »- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

NASA, please say again why Venus is too hot to touch with an Ovglove.

Say again why the regular laws of physics do not apply to Venus.

Say again that it's greenhouse cooked rather then geothermally forced.
-
Brad Guth

In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on Fri, 13 Jul 2007 14:15:22 -0000
.com:

[snippage]

NASA, please say again why Venus is too hot to touch with an Ovglove.

Venus is *not* too hot to touch with an Ovglove.
The Russian landers (the Venera program) survived on its
surface for more than an hour; the orbiter lost contact
with them simply because it moved below the horizon in
its orbit, relative to the landing point. Presumably,
the measurement of 735 K came from these landers.

A Google suggests that an ovglove can resist red hot
forks -- a temperature of approximately 1400-1500 K;
this is well above Venus' surface temperature of 735K.
There are, of course, many other issues involved in
touching a planet's surface -- but Venera did touch
the surface, as far as we can tell from here on Earth.

(Of course you're also on record in stating that humans
did *not* touch the surface of Luna, so I'm not sure
what your criteria are here. From a pedantic standpoint,
of course, they did not -- spaceboots came between -- but
that is a minor detail. It is not clear to me whether they
played with any of the lunar soil by bringing it back into
the Apollo capsule, somewhat like a child in a sandbox.
I doubt it, though they did complain about it sticking
to everything.)


Say again why the regular laws of physics do not apply to Venus.

There are several issues here, since there are a lot of laws of physics.
Perhaps you can be more specific?

Bear also in mind what a law of physics *is*: in regular
law, a series of, well, lawyers, essentially, draft a
precisely written law that might not be applicable to the
real world. In physics, a series of scientists attempt to
derive things observed in the real world, and do not always
get it right. The most spectacular example is arguably the
considerations of ancient Greece, but that predates modern
scientists; a more modern example is the Michelson-Morley
experiment, which torpedoed most theories regarding a rigid
luminiferous aether, and eventually lead to the theory of
General Relativity as still used today, through a couple
of detours.

And GR still doesn't get it quite right, although that might
be more because of measurement issues than the theory proper.
Gravity Probe B had some problems in that area -- although
einstein.stanford.edu reports that they did get a clear
confirmation of GR therefrom.

In your case, the relevant "laws" are probably more in the realm
of thermodynamics.


Say again that it's greenhouse cooked rather then geothermally forced.

There is no evidence currently of volcanic eruptions
on Venus. However, there's plenty of evidence that
Venus is relatively young -- and it is possible that the
blanket surrounding Venus is helping keep the planet's heat of
formation in, despite the 4.5 billion years' duration.

I'd have to calculate it, admittedly, before I can say either way.
There are some interesting issues here.

-
Brad Guth


--
#191,
Warning: This encrypted signature is a dangerous
munition. Please notify the US government
immediately upon reception.
0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 0000 ...

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Jul 14, 9:16 am, The Ghost In The Machine
wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
Say again why the regular laws of physics do not apply to Venus.

There are several issues here, since there are a lot of laws of
physics. Perhaps you can be more specific?

The matter of scientific record of those having interpreted the
geothermally forced environment as being the *PRIMARY* cause of the
Venusian toasty environment, as such is just one of many taboo/
nondisclosure sorts of physics being forever excluded and/or banished
because it doesn't fit their original Yiddish mold of an atmospheric
forced greenhouse environment, and it only gets worse off from there
on.

Of those excluding upon the observationology interpretations of others
such as myself, being those of my interpretation having deductively
uncovered a good number of highly artificial looking attributes, thus
being of intelligent forced mutations of highly intelligent looking
structures upon the otherwise roasting local terrain, that which goes
against the known planetology laws of nature, is simply adding further
topic/author stalking proof positive of entirely unjustified
intellectual trauma (yourself included as part of that killer swarm
mindset that's stuck forever in naysay mode).

Thermaldynamics are simply not capable of exceeding the known realm of
what's doable and even sustainable on behalf of accommodating
intelligent other life, much like a nuclear submarine can stay within
extremely deep and thus a lethal to human environment as long as their
beer and pizza holds out, and perhaps the same analogy can be said of
those sequestered onboard our spendy ISS/ESS that keeps trying to fall
out of the sky.


There is no evidence currently of volcanic eruptions
on Venus. However, there's plenty of evidence that
Venus is relatively young -- and it is possible that the
blanket surrounding Venus is helping keep the planet's heat of
formation in, despite the 4.5 billion years' duration.

There you go again, automatically excluding upon whatever physics or
best available science that rocks your status quo good ship LOLLIPOP
(sort of speak). For all we know, Venus could be merely 3.5 billion
years old, or possibly less old, and it sure as hell could have been
ejected away from the likes of a red giant phase of whatever the
Sirius star system had to offer.


I'd have to calculate it, admittedly, before I can say either way.
There are some interesting issues here.

Please do just that, and report back (not forgetting about all of that
geothermally heated S8 that's in addition to the CO2). Unless you're
a born-again bigot, you can read John Ackerman's accounting for his
highly reasonable interpretation, of that Venus atmosphere hosting
such nifty amounts of S8. BTW, there's even a few NASA published
reviewed about the active lava/mud issues that's clearly much hotter
than the surrounding terrain.

Why other than Yiddish butt covering do you think the ESA Venus
EXPRESS robust PFS instrument was either disabled or the available
data encrypted as though unavailable?
-
Brad Guth

On Jul 6, 12:07 pm, BradGuth wrote:
On Jul 6, 10:14 am, BradGuth wrote:





On May 29, 6:47 am, BradGuth wrote:

At losing 20.5 w/m2, Venus is still not the least bit too hot to touch
with the Ovglove, much less of any problem for a composite rigid
airship.

Comparing Earth/Venus is not even a fair game, as to any half smart ET
village idiot, the planet Venus wins every time.

Too bad that Cambridge and the like are too mainstream snookered and
otherwise dumbfounded past the point of no return, as to know about
such things.

Too bad that ADOBE PhotoShop or the likes of digital photographic
enlargement alternatives that are even better, is still so taboo/
nondisclosure rated.

Too bad them pesky laws of physics and of whatever's the best
available science can't function off-world. I obviously didn't know
that such regular laws of physics and of whatever science were so
unusually terrestrial limited.
-BradGuth
-
"whoever controls the past, controls the future" / George Orwell

On Apr 4, 5:07 pm, wrote:

As long as you don't run yourself out of ice cold beer and pizza, I
don't see all that much of a problem.

As long as you've got way more spare/renewable energy at your disposal
than you could possibly know what to do with, and having that nifty
thermal suit made by Ovglove, where's the big-ass insurmountable
problem with taking that hot-foot of a toasty stroll onVenus?

CO2--CO/O2 is not hardly a technical problem, hasn't been for a good
decade or more.

Pure H2O as easily extracted from those somewhat cool nighttime acidic
clouds (above the S8 layer) is simply another mission positive win-
win.

The 65 kg/m3 worth of buoyancy as working along with the 90.5% gravity
is offering a couple of other nifty factors that'll work rather well
for your composite rigid airship (just like on behalf of those
Venusian composite rigid airships).

If you're any damn good at PhotoShop, goto:http://guthvenus.tripod.com/http://g...om/gv-town.htm
or best you start with your very own look-see at the following
official image site:http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/hi...c115s095_1.gif

The 36 look per pixel of that GIF image format starts getting
interesting at being 3X resampled, and then giving it all the best
PhotoShop or whatever else you can muster, although the original GIF
1:1 image was actually good enough for my PhotoShop configured brain
to deductively interpret upon what's most likely artificial as opposed
to what's perfectly natural. 36 looks per pixel is offering a lot of
truthworthy image data to start with, so it's a good one to stick with
rather than dealing with their individual 75 meter/pixel versions as
having combined but four looks per pixel.

Don't try to process the entire image unless you've got one heck of a
nifty PC or MAC. Try clipping out only the small portion of the total
image that's roughly a third up from the bottom and just to the right
of center, as we're talking about utilizing less than 10% or perhaps
even as little as 5% of that primary GIF image, and to process upon
just that much shouldn't traumatise your memory or performance PC or
MAC.

I'll review each of your results, that by rights should become a whole
lot better than mine. Obviously anyone can over/under force those
PhotoShop refinements, well past the point of no return, so don't do
that. My extremely old version of PhotoShop can't accomplish much
better than 8X resampling without losing ground, and besides, we don't
actually require much better than 6X for most others to see most
clearly what I'd interpreted from the original 1:1 format.

Thanks once again to 'tomcat' for also having posted this updated page
ofVenusimages.http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/th...humbnails.html

It's image No.17 from the top left being the one that so happens to
include the robust, sizable and somewhat complex community of 'GUTHVenus'.
"Lava channels, Lo Shen Valles,Venusfrom Magellan Cycle 1"http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/html/object_page/mgn_c115s095_1.htm...
-BradGuth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Venus is not at all too hot to touch with the Ovglove. If our SR-71
can survive 1200 degree F, then where's the big ass insurmountable
technical problem with surviving Venus within our composite rigid
airship?

That's right folks, there has been and may still be other intelligent
life existing/coexisting on Venus, and silly old me, I still think
it's wrong of us for having suppressed or otherwise banished Muslim
oil away from the global market, or that of our having merely taken
such oil away from Muslims, and also having taken nearly a million of
their mostly innocent lives in the process seems a tadbit not so silly
to me.

If we simply can't be honest to ourselves (admitting to our often
faith-based cultivated arrogance, greed, bigotry and subsequent
mistakes), then any hope of accomplishing good relationships with
other species of ETs or even others of our own kind is unlikely, if
not impossible when our very own history is so terribly skewed in
favor of directly benefitting those minority faith-based groups that
insist upon remaining in charge of our private parts.

I mean to keep asking, how totally dumb and dumber do you think other
intelligent life really is?

Do you folks think we're ever going to be able to snooker those
intelligent ETs that simply have to exist/coexist within our universe
and even quite possibly within our own solar system?

If you were such an ET arriving on Earth for the first time; how long
would it take you to discover what a total fiasco farce this 98.5%
fluid world of such over-populated souls, was actually based upon most
anything hocus-pocus or just plain old lies upon lies. I mean, how
totally dumbfounded would you have to be, not to realize that the
worse of our faith-based populations of this screwed up planet have
been such horrific losers, in almost every way imaginable to boot.

Considering what natural resources and the time we've had to work
with, just look at what has been raped out of mother Earth, and of the
subsequent pollutions and soot that are each subsequently adding their
insult to the global warming injury, that's otherwise mostly caused by
way of our moon's gravity and of its nearby orbital tidal energy
that's unavoidably keeping those portions of our 98.5% fluid earth on
the move (inside and out).

BTW, I'll gladly change my tune as soon as the regular laws of physics
apply, and/or whenever the best available science is telling us
otherwise.

My having to uncover the truth about the sick and perverted history of
humanity is just a little extra icing on the cake, though apparently
necessary in order to fully appreciate as to why and of where all of
the naysayism flak is coming from.
-
Brad Guth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The naysayism swarm mindset of this GOOGLE/NOVA Usenet from Zion hell
on Earth is nearly all Zionism orchestrated from start to finish, with
a few other faith-based cults picking up the rear (meaning as official
Zion pooper scoopers).

For a perfectly good example of what's technically doable:
With unlimited local energy (how many spare teraWatts would you folks
like?); as such we could hold the future of our Winter Olympics on
Venus, and then some.

What's all that insurmountable when there's such unlimited and
otherwise 100% renewable energy that's already there to behold?

Did each of you silly naysay folks entirely miss out on your doctorate
of physics-duh-101?

BTW, if I were every bit as dumbfounded and otherwise as naysay
snookered to death as yourself, as such I would not try using the
likes of any standard PC on Venus, although within the cool as you
like composite rigid airship or much less our extremely cool POOF City
at VL2 isn't any problem whatsoever.

Have any of you rusemasters of naysayism ever heard of the cold
cathode vacuume tube? It seems they can be made extremely small,
obviously energy efficient and good for perhaps better than twice
whatever that Venusian environment has to share. That cold cathode
has a 1600 year half life to boot.

There's almost no limits as to the structural byouancy derived as
hauling capacity of our composite rigid airship, as well as offering
lots of internal volume of cooled habitat to spare. (no shortages of
ice cold beer on this mission)

Of locally produced thermal insulation, that's also every bit as
structural as you'd like to make it, is clearly not the least bit
insurmountable of such a local product of basalt obtaining R256/m, or
even as good as R1024/m.
-
Brad Guth- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why exactly is this extensively Yiddish anti-think-tank of a naysay
Usenet from hell so deathly afraid of its own shadow?

"Scientists ponder plant life on extrasolar planets"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...d820b126792d97

I can't but totally agree with the above SETI topic, in that depending
upon the spectrum of available energy as light (much of which is
outside the threshold of human vision), the forms of plant/microbe/
animal life should have adapted, as do our terrestrial diatoms for
taking the fullest advantage of the given energy spectrum that's in
charge of illuminating a given environment, including everything from
UV starshine to that of a brown dwarf's black IR/FIR radiating sun
(aka 'hot rock') should do just fine as long as their local, solar,
moon and cosmic dosage of gamma and hard-Xrays are within the scope of
whatever such ET DNA or whatever alternative can manage to cope with.

How about our best of science wizards pondering on behalf of other
intelligent life that's either evolved or having been one way or
another transported onto intrasolar planets or moons, meaning the
likes of Venus or a few of those interesting Saturn or Jupiter moons
seems every bit as worthy as for any little frozen to death Ceres
dwarf of a planet, and otherwise certainly a whole lot better off than
anything Mars could sustain without imported resources.

At most a planet that's hosting intelligent other life needs merely a
brown dwarf of a sun, or at least having a Saturn+ or Jupiter+ class
of a mother planet from which to draw energy from. In the case of
Venus being of such a newish worth of planetology, chances are that it
could have survived an extended interstellar trek pretty much all by
itself, perhaps bringing along its own icy moon and whatever
collection of complex life that's capable of having survived where
most terrestrial forms of life from Earth simply would never have
survived, much less having evolved into the sorts of life as we know
it.

Just because a given planet or moon is not 100% suited to our butt
naked and so often dumbfounded usage as is, doesn't exclude such other
orbs from having their own populations of weird or even somewhat
terrestrial forms of survival intelligent other life to behold, much
like there being complex life within terrestrial ice or having been
surviving within certain places similar to being as hot as hell on
Earth, as well as within testy environments under the depths of an
ocean that would just as easily crush your typical submarine that's
accommodating us wussy humans, along with terminating our extremely
frail DNA that hasn't hardly evolved for the better since the last ice
age this planet is ever going to see, that is as long as we're going
to keep putting up with that massive and fast moving moon of ours
that's cruising so close to our home world that's 98.5% fluid and thus
unavoidably affected by those horrific tidal forces at play.

As I'd said, a visual spectrum of sunlight alone doesn't insure life,
but it certainly makes our lives a whole lot more interesting being
able to see, rather than limited by braille or via other than our
highly evolved and/or intelligently designed sensory capability of
sight. Just think of how freaking difficult it would be to falsely
accuse Muslims of having WMD, much less of our going into Iraq as
based upon a braille method of taking control over all of that Muslim
oil, as having been our primary objective in the first place. If
we're in the dark (sort of speak), such as illuminated by only UV or
IR photons, as for such a blind species we'd be hard pressed to
cultivate such arrogance, greed and faith-based bigotry.
-
Brad Guth

The Ghost In The Machine,
Why exactly is this extensively Yiddish anti-think-tank of a naysay
Usenet from hell so gosh darn deathly afraid of its own shadow? Or,
is it just our moon and the planet Venus they're so deathly afraid of?

What other than Yiddish religion is so absolutely paranoid about our
discovering or much less interacting with other intelligent life?

"Scientists ponder plant life on extrasolar planets"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...d820b126792d97

I can't but totally agree with the above SETI topic, in that depending
upon the spectrum of available energy as light (much of which is
outside the threshold of human vision), the forms of plant/microbe/
animal life should have adapted, as do our terrestrial diatoms for
taking the fullest advantage of the given energy spectrum that's in
charge of illuminating a given environment, including everything from
UV starshine to that of a brown dwarf's black IR/FIR radiating sun
(aka 'hot rock') should do just fine as long as their local, solar,
moon and cosmic dosage of gamma and hard-Xrays are within the scope of
whatever such ET DNA or whatever alternative can manage to cope with.

How about our best of science wizards pondering on behalf of other
intelligent life that's either evolved or having been one way or
another transported onto intrasolar planets or moons, meaning the
likes of Venus or a few of those interesting Saturn or Jupiter moons
seems every bit as worthy as for any little frozen to death Ceres
dwarf of a planet, and otherwise certainly a whole lot better off than
anything Mars could sustain without imported resources.

At most a planet that's hosting intelligent other life needs merely a
brown dwarf of a sun, or at least having a Saturn+ or Jupiter+ class
of a mother planet from which to draw energy from. In the case of
Venus being of such a newish worth of planetology, chances are that it
could have survived an extended interstellar trek pretty much all by
itself, perhaps bringing along its own icy moon and whatever
collection of complex life that's capable of having survived where
most terrestrial forms of life from Earth simply would never have
survived, much less having evolved into the sorts of life as we know
it.

Just because a given planet or moon is not 100% suited to our butt
naked and so often dumbfounded usage as is, doesn't exclude such other
orbs from having their own populations of weird or even somewhat
terrestrial forms of survival intelligent other life to behold, much
like there being complex life within terrestrial ice or having been
surviving within certain places similar to being as hot as hell on
Earth, as well as within testy environments under the depths of an
ocean that would just as easily crush your typical submarine that's
accommodating us wussy humans, along with terminating our extremely
frail DNA that hasn't hardly evolved for the better since the last ice
age this planet is ever going to see, that is as long as we're going
to keep putting up with that massive and fast moving moon of ours
that's cruising so close to our home world that's 98.5% fluid and thus
unavoidably affected by those horrific tidal forces at play.

As I'd said countless times before, a humanly visual spectrum of
sunlight alone doesn't insure life, but it certainly makes our lives a
whole lot more interesting being able to see, rather than limited by
braille or via other than our highly evolved and/or intelligently
designed sensory capability of sight. Just think of how freaking
difficult it would be to falsely accuse Muslims of having WMD, much
less of our going into Iraq as based upon a braille method of taking
control over all of that Muslim oil, as having been our primary
objective in the first place. If we're in the dark (sort of speak),
such as illuminated by only UV or IR photons, as for such a blind
species we'd be hard pressed to cultivate such arrogance, greed and
faith-based bigotry.

Even our moon's nearby L1 would become a rather pointless
accomplishment if we only had UV and IR photons to work with, and
hadn't evolved to being able to visualize anything via such
spectrums. However, in a typical terrestrial or even moon like
environment, whereas at least UV energy does cause a great amount of
secondary/recoil photons to form, thus such secondary black-light
having created such near-blue illumination might be more than
sufficient for a nocturnal sensitive form of human vision, much like
what the lower visual extreme could easily exist on Venus that has
more geothermal IR/FIR photons than it knows what to do with (of
course intelligence wise, you'd still have to be smarter than a hot
rock).
-
Brad Guth

In sci.physics, BradGuth

wrote
on Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:59:59 -0000
.com:
The Ghost In The Machine,
Why exactly is this extensively Yiddish anti-think-tank of a naysay
Usenet from hell so gosh darn deathly afraid of its own shadow? Or,
is it just our moon and the planet Venus they're so deathly afraid of?

What other than Yiddish religion is so absolutely paranoid about our
discovering or much less interacting with other intelligent life?

I'm not sure why Yiddish gets singled out here, and in
any event it is entirely possible for other worlds to
have intelligent life -- which may have been exported
here in the distant past. However, the likelihood is not
all that high, and if they did export life here, they did
it so carefully that there is no unambiguous evidence of
extrasolar intervention.

There is also the little issue of how such life, if it
is more complex than a virus, survives being taken below
freezing for extended intervals. Best I can do there is a
very well-insulated carrier (something along the lines of
a Dewar flask) and a heat source, possibly fission power.

Such would leave quite a bit of evidence, were we to know
precisely where to look...though there is the possibility of
it being dunked in our oceans and scattered to all corners
(after a few billion years).


"Scientists ponder plant life on extrasolar planets"
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...d820b126792d97

I can't but totally agree with the above SETI topic, in that depending
upon the spectrum of available energy as light (much of which is
outside the threshold of human vision), the forms of plant/microbe/
animal life should have adapted,

They did. Early life was anoxygenic/ anaerobic in nature.

as do our terrestrial diatoms for
taking the fullest advantage of the given energy spectrum that's in
charge of illuminating a given environment, including everything from
UV starshine to that of a brown dwarf's black IR/FIR radiating sun
(aka 'hot rock') should do just fine as long as their local, solar,
moon and cosmic dosage of gamma and hard-Xrays are within the scope of
whatever such ET DNA or whatever alternative can manage to cope with.

How about our best of science wizards pondering on behalf of other
intelligent life that's either evolved or having been one way or
another transported onto intrasolar planets or moons, meaning the
likes of Venus or a few of those interesting Saturn or Jupiter moons
seems every bit as worthy as for any little frozen to death Ceres
dwarf of a planet, and otherwise certainly a whole lot better off than
anything Mars could sustain without imported resources.

At most a planet that's hosting intelligent other life needs merely a
brown dwarf of a sun, or at least having a Saturn+ or Jupiter+ class
of a mother planet from which to draw energy from. In the case of
Venus being of such a newish worth of planetology, chances are that it
could have survived an extended interstellar trek pretty much all by
itself, perhaps bringing along its own icy moon and whatever
collection of complex life that's capable of having survived where
most terrestrial forms of life from Earth simply would never have
survived, much less having evolved into the sorts of life as we know
it.

Ah, so this is interesting. Venus had a moon orbiting it when it came
over from Sirius, then?

How did Venus lose its Moon and we acquire it?


Just because a given planet or moon is not 100% suited to our butt
naked and so often dumbfounded usage as is, doesn't exclude such other
orbs from having their own populations of weird or even somewhat
terrestrial forms of survival intelligent other life to behold, much
like there being complex life within terrestrial ice or having been
surviving within certain places similar to being as hot as hell on
Earth, as well as within testy environments under the depths of an
ocean that would just as easily crush your typical submarine that's
accommodating us wussy humans, along with terminating our extremely
frail DNA that hasn't hardly evolved for the better since the last ice
age this planet is ever going to see, that is as long as we're going
to keep putting up with that massive and fast moving moon of ours
that's cruising so close to our home world that's 98.5% fluid and thus
unavoidably affected by those horrific tidal forces at play.

Our world is not 98.5% fluid, unless you're counting the mantle.


As I'd said countless times before, a humanly visual spectrum of
sunlight alone doesn't insure life, but it certainly makes our lives a
whole lot more interesting being able to see, rather than limited by
braille or via other than our highly evolved and/or intelligently
designed sensory capability of sight. Just think of how freaking
difficult it would be to falsely accuse Muslims of having WMD, much
less of our going into Iraq as based upon a braille method of taking
control over all of that Muslim oil, as having been our primary
objective in the first place. If we're in the dark (sort of speak),
such as illuminated by only UV or IR photons, as for such a blind
species we'd be hard pressed to cultivate such arrogance, greed and
faith-based bigotry.

Even our moon's nearby L1 would become a rather pointless
accomplishment if we only had UV and IR photons to work with, and
hadn't evolved to being able to visualize anything via such
spectrums. However, in a typical terrestrial or even moon like
environment, whereas at least UV energy does cause a great amount of
secondary/recoil photons to form, thus such secondary black-light
having created such near-blue illumination might be more than
sufficient for a nocturnal sensitive form of human vision, much like
what the lower visual extreme could easily exist on Venus that has
more geothermal IR/FIR photons than it knows what to do with (of
course intelligence wise, you'd still have to be smarter than a hot
rock).
-
Brad Guth



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